Soren Blondlot Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 After 2 months and 1300Km with my first wheel, I'm already looking for an upgrade. I'm a V8 commuter I commute to work. I commute downtown. But I also ride for fun, as often as I can. I love my wheel, but i'm bored with the early tiltback And I'm not confident while riding at 30 kmh, because it is the limit of the wheel. And of course, I always have to carry my charger with me. Unfortunately I don't have the chance to test any wheel before choosing a new one. I'm very, very close to buy a KS-18XL. But I don't know exactly why! HELP ME, do I make a mistake ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Welcome! The current contenders in my mind are KS 18L & 18XL, Gotway MSX (& Tesla), Inmotion V10F, and Ninebot Z10. If you feel drawn towards the 18XL, it’s often a good sign. Only reasons not to buy it would be an enthusiastic hate towards KS safety measures (warnings, tilt-back, speed throttle by battery level), or a boycott due to the new but still non-functional app. Or if you’d really like a wider tire. MSX on the other hand might require a few modifications to be comfortable (or even usable) to some riders. Once an MSX fits well, it is faster, more powerful, quieter, and it’s pedal modes are harder. 18XL still triumphs with a more sophisticated, gentlemanly ride, range, and with it’s perfectly positioned trolley handle. Very few people have been eventually unhappy with either one. Do remember that damage to your bones, skin, muscle and brain is a lot worse at 40 than 30 km/h. Which is already a full-shield speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, mrelwood said: The current contenders in my mind are KS 18L & 18XL, Gotway MSX (& Tesla), Inmotion V10F, and Ninebot Z10. Agree with everything you wrote, but the 18L is too expensive compared to the 18XL. I wouldn't recommend an 18L to anyone unless they explicitly guaranteedly never need the range. 12 hours ago, Soren Blondlot said: I'm very, very close to buy a KS-18XL. But I don't know exactly why! Because you want one Do it! 12 hours ago, Soren Blondlot said: HELP ME, do I make a mistake ? No. Definitely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 @meepmeepmayer's post reminds me that we are enablers here. Do it ! Do it! The XL is a great choice. No regrets from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Not every time it's a complicated case. Sometimes, the answer is just simple and obvious. OP wants a better wheel. More speed, more range, more safety. Zero reason to not get the best wheel you can if you can afford it. He knows what he wants, and even got the cravings for a specific model already. How could it be any more clear? What else would make more sense? Nothing. It's not enabling if there's nothing questionable about it Just the glorious truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seage Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I don't even have 100km on my wheel yet and I already know the 18XL is my next wheel, unless something comes out of the woodwork that is just ridiculously amazing, haha. I need to close my eyes and my wallet for now and get back to learning how to ride properly instead of looking at top of the line wheels already, like an idiot. Do let us know which wheel you choose, OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, seage said: I don't even have 100km on my wheel yet and I already know the 18XL is my next wheel, unless something comes out of the woodwork that is just ridiculously amazing, haha. I need to close my eyes and my wallet for now and get back to learning how to ride properly instead of looking at top of the line wheels already, like an idiot. Do let us know which wheel you choose, OP! Can't you just feel the fingers slipping into your wallet, emptying it of all its contents? You thing you're frugal, but for some reason the savings account never get any larger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 I have been happy with the range, power and speed of the 18L. I've also heard the 18XL is heavier. Just my $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 19 minutes ago, Circuitmage said: I have been happy with the range, power and speed of the 18L. I've also heard the 18XL is heavier. Just my $.02. If there's one downside to the XL, it's that the wheel is very heavy. When you go to pick the XL up it feels a lot heavier than you're expecting based on the size. This doesn't affect me, but people who prefer lighter wheels would not like this 'feature'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, seage said: I don't even have 100km on my wheel yet and I already know the 18XL is my next wheel, unless something comes out of the woodwork that is just ridiculously amazing, haha. The XL is that "ridiculously amazing" thing that came out of the woodwork. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Circuitmage said: I have been happy with the range, power and speed of the 18L. I've also heard the 18XL is heavier. Just my $.02. I have to echo @Marty Backe; the 18XL is heavy, and it feels heavy when you lift it. That's no big deal for me; I am a big strong guy. However, for smaller people who have to lift a wheel it could be a big problem; that's true with the 18L in some cases. My 18L is in transit from France; it's actually back in USA; just not yet at my front door. When my son had it with him in Paris the weight of the 18L affected him in a way that it never did in the U. S. In Paris he lives on the fourth floor of a building with no elevator; ouch! I was on another thread talking about the beauty of the 18L. Some are starting to dismiss the 18L because of the XL. I think that is a bad idea if the rider is in a situation where the 18L easily satisfies their range requirements. I ride them both and I feel that the 18L is the better balanced of the two wheel's. It's actually better than the XL in every performance characteristic outside of the obvious; range. It accelerates better, it brakes better, it feels better in tight maneuvers, and if you like tricking on it a little the 18L feels better than the XL doing that to. If you don't need or want the range then the 18L is the better wheel between the two. My view on that comes from side-by-side and back-to-back comparison rides on them both. I am actually planning to purchase another 18L for my son at UVA to use. I not an getting an XL for him because he won't require nearly that much range for his needs; It would be a waste to spend extra money for range he won't use on a wheel that is dynamically inferior in all the ways that he will use it. Don't get me wrong. I love my XL, but I think it's a tragedy that some are starting to feel that there is no category for the L because it exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesq Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: If there's one downside to the XL, it's that the wheel is very heavy. When you go to pick the XL up it feels a lot heavier than you're expecting based on the size. This doesn't affect me, but people who prefer lighter wheels would not like this 'feature'. Is it comparatively heavy compared to the MSX and 18L? From my understanding, the 18XL is 5 lbs heavier than the 18L and basically the same weight as the MSX. Is the 18XL as stable feeling as the MSX? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 MSX = 51 pounds 1600wh L = 48 pounds XL = 53 pounds give or take a pound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Jonesq said: Is it comparatively heavy compared to the MSX and 18L? From my understanding, the 18XL is 5 lbs heavier than the 18L and basically the same weight as the MSX. Is the 18XL as stable feeling as the MSX? See what @RockyTop just wrote above. People would probably consider the MSX more stable, if by stable you mean the wheel wants to keep going in the direction that it's pointed. Most likely due to the much bigger wheel of the MSX vs the 18L. The two wheels really do ride differently. BTW, just about every wheel rides differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Jonesq said: Is it comparatively heavy compared to the MSX and 18L? From my understanding, the 18XL is 5 lbs heavier than the 18L and basically the same weight as the MSX. The answer is yes. I have not measured the actual weight difference, but XL's mass is noticeable in dynamics and feel when lifting; especially, when these tests are done back-to-back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Jonesq said: Is the 18XL as stable feeling as the MSX? It is more "flickable" than than the MSX; meaning it resists less when you want to turn. I would say that XL is between the MSX and the 18L; representing the balance/middle, but the differences in either direction are not extreme. Wheel dynamics are one thing, and they are legit because there are laws to physics. However, because forces can interact and be skillfully applied to compensate and overcome other forces, and because the brain and body also adapts and compensates in an attempt to find equilibrium. The rider is ultimately going to adapt enough to be equally capable on all wheels that they ride equally regardless of natural dynamics. What I am saying is that in the end it's the rider that makes the wheel, and not the wheel that makes the rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Or on my case, the rider that breaks the wheel 😁 it is a tuff job to be a rookie but someone got to do it. 😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seage Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Unventor said: Or on my case, the rider that breaks the wheel 😁 it is a tuff job to be a rookie but someone got to do it. 😏 Amen to that, haha! @Lutalo Thanks so much for that breakdown. Thats so interesting and something I didnt even think about! May I ask, are you on the heavier or lighter side? And does your mass help toss the wheel around? I guess it is like you say, end of the day its the rider. You'll adapt to whatever you have and become skillful but its still super interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 For me I am 5'11" 200lbs...sometimes 205 . I was happy on the 16s , but it did feel small for my weight. Now, going back to the 16s from the 18l it feels super light and nimble. Almost like nothing is there. And the 18l is no fun to pick up. I can easily toss the 16s in my car, but the 18l is a bit less fun to have to lift. Much like my 50# dog. I can do it, just not something I want to do a lot. So for me, an extra 5# for an XL would be even worse. The good news is, as long as your tire is good...you dont really have to pick it up much. And, as stated above if you dont live above several sets of stairs, your probably good with XL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Blondlot Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share Posted February 28, 2019 13 hours ago, mrelwood said: The current contenders in my mind are KS 18L & 18XL, Gotway MSX (& Tesla), Inmotion V10F, and Ninebot Z10. Tesla : I don't know this wheel. I've heard about it. But I don't feel it is a popular choice inmotion V10F : I think it must be the most reasonable choice. But somewhere, missing a bit of madness Ninebot Z10 : I was enthusiastic, but that deflated after I read the first reviews. MSX : the rock'n roll choice. If you have to make a change, go for a MSX!!!. But I'm concerned about the build quality, and the confort of the wheel. KS 18L / 18 XL : A reasonable choice among the unreasonable wheels. The 18 XL was a no brainer vs the 18L, but this thread slowly raises a doubt. Oh guys, I know I don't need a new wheel. Oh guys, I damn want to ride on a F* rock'n roll wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Unventor said: Or on my case, the rider that breaks the wheel 😁 it is a tuff job to be a rookie but someone got to do it. 😏 I have broken my share too . Got one in the closet I am hoping to finally get around to repairing this Spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, seage said: Amen to that, haha! @Lutalo Thanks so much for that breakdown. Thats so interesting and something I didnt even think about! May I ask, are you on the heavier or lighter side? And does your mass help toss the wheel around? I guess it is like you say, end of the day its the rider. You'll adapt to whatever you have and become skillful but its still super interesting I'm about 6'1" 220lb. So, it seems reasonable that being a bigger person could make handling a bigger wheel a little easier. However, if body mass matters at all in relation to wheel size, I would think it matters most during the learning phase when a rider is more likely to have issues with balancing on the wheel and experiencing an injury. I have seen experienced riders of all sizes tackle wheels of all sizes. It seems to me that any impact a person's size may have on their experience with different wheels dissipates as skill develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Marty Backe said: BTW, just about every wheel rides differently. Wisdom from a man who would know for sure because he owns and rides so many different wheels 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 10 hours ago, Soren Blondlot said: Tesla : I don't know this wheel. I've heard about it. But I don't feel it is a popular choice I think it is still quite popular. It’s just a year older than the others, so it’s not talked as much anymore. Quote MSX : the rock'n roll choice. If you have to make a change, go for a MSX!!!. But I'm concerned about the build quality, and the confort of the wheel. They made some stupid decisions, but other than that it is a solid wheel. A lot more trustworthy than one would expect. Quote Oh guys, I damn want to ride on a F* rock'n roll wheel. The 18(X)L will probably feel very rock’n’roll after a V8! Just perhaps a bit more AOR than hard rock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 hours ago, mrelwood said: The 18(X)L will probably feel very rock’n’roll after a V8! Just perhaps a bit more AOR than hard rock... Shhhhooot! My L and XL are Funk. I hear P-Funk's Mothership Connection, and because I'm in DC; Chocolate City playing in my head everytime I glide on it. When I am on the trail network around DC; I hear Funkadelic, Maggot Brains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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