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ACM battery Packages


szaroczek

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Hello, I'd like to ask what exactly are the battery packages in ACM 1300 Wh 84V and in ACM 1600 Wh 84V? In particular I'm interested with how many packages are installed in each version, what is their structure - 20sXp, and what type of 18650 cells are used? Thank you.

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From ewheels old.product page on the acm2:

https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-gotway-acm-acms-16-800wh1300wh/

Quote

Q: Beside the battery size, are there other differences between the 1,300Wh/1600Wh Wheels?
A: Both the 1300Wh & 1600Wh are identical in terms of power output & top speed: the 1300Wh pack contains 120x of the 2.9Ah Panasonic NCR18650PF cells, while the 1600Wh pack has the same number of cells but with the higher capacity 3.5Ah Sanyo NCR18650GA type.

The actually capacity of the pack is slightly lower than what Gotway advertises, as is illustrated below:

  • 1300Wh Panasonic NCR18650PF pack: 2.9Ah (rated capacity) x 3.6V (nominal voltage) x 120 cells = 1252.8Wh
  • 1600Wh Sanyo NCR18650GA pack: 3.5Ah (rated capacity) x 3.6V (nominal voltage) x 120 cells = 1512Wh

Earlier versions the ACM operated at a lower voltage voltage of 67.2v, which limited the potential maximum speed of the Wheel to under 25MPH. With the introduction of the ACMS+, the voltage has been raised to 84.2v. This voltage allows for a higher cruising speed by providing a larger buffer against ‘brown-outs’. This is where the voltage required, usually during demanding situations like climbing a steep hill or mountain, exceeds the available voltage of the battery pack.

Also according to this guy's research in this post the ACM is 20s6p

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/10546-so-i-live-at-the-top-of-a-steep-hill/

 

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Heyzeus, thank you so very much. So, in both versions the structure of the battery packages is identical only the type of the cells differs. I also guess this 20s6p in practice means 2 packages of 20s3p each on either side of the wheel, as it is in MSX 84V 1600 Wh, right...? 

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That would be my guess, from what I've seen the ACM2 1600wh has two packs total, alie express green fashion shop's max size battery for the ACM is 800wh so, i'd assume there is one 800wh pack on each side...haven't opened one up to check but that would be my guess.

the 1300wh supposedly just uses lower capacity cells but the same number as the 1600wh so i'm guessing it has two equally sized packs also.

I do not know how that compares to the msx though...someone who knows about the msx will have to answer that one for ya

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1 hour ago, Heyzeus said:

That would be my guess, from what I've seen the ACM2 1600wh has two packs total, alie express green fashion shop's max size battery for the ACM is 800wh so, i'd assume there is one 800wh pack on each side...haven't opened one up to check but that would be my guess.

the 1300wh supposedly just uses lower capacity cells but the same number as the 1600wh so i'm guessing it has two equally sized packs also.

I do not know how that compares to the msx though...someone who knows about the msx will have to answer that one for ya

The 1600wh battery configuration in the ACM is also in the MSuper V3s+, MSX, and Monster. I.e. they all use the same 800wh battery packs.

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13 hours ago, szaroczek said:

By the way, tried to find this 800Wh 84V Gotway battery pack on AliExpress but failed... Can you send me a  link to this offer if it's still available, please?

Here is the link to their shop: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1908673?spm=2114.12010108.0.0.5217615bxs9Hqy

Just click on accessories zone and then select the wheel you want accessories for and you should see the batteries

I personally have never bought from them so don't know how quality their shop is or how their shipping times are, I think some others here have but don't know if recently.

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Thank you, Heyzeus. Yet, there are no accessories for ACM at all and in the accessories zone for MSuper X there are no battery packages listed; they are, however, for MSuper3; these might possibly be exactly the same except apparently bmses aren't. But if asked specifically they would probably offer packages for both MSX as well as for ACM and the price should be more or less similar as well, I guess... :mellow:

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1 hour ago, szaroczek said:

Thank you, Heyzeus. Yet, there are no accessories for ACM at all and in the accessories zone for MSuper X there are no battery packages listed; they are, however, for MSuper3; these might possibly be exactly the same except apparently bmses aren't. But if asked specifically they would probably offer packages for both MSX as well as for ACM and the price should be more or less similar as well, I guess... :mellow:

The MSuper V3s+ batteries should be the same. Many people have bought the battery-less MSX and transferred their MSuper V3s batteries to the new wheel.

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ACM accessories, I imagine the controller and motor are for the old ACM but I would think the batteries would be the same between the ACM and the ACM 2

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/GotWay-ACM16-The-full-range-of-electric-unicycle-original-accessories-shell-motherboar-Tyre-inner-tube-16inch/1908673_32830253642.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.18.5800473ayMfpvM

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29 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

ACM accessories, I imagine the controller and motor are for the old ACM but I would think the batteries would be the same between the ACM and the ACM 2

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/GotWay-ACM16-The-full-range-of-electric-unicycle-original-accessories-shell-motherboar-Tyre-inner-tube-16inch/1908673_32830253642.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.18.5800473ayMfpvM

The batteries are absolutely the same. Every 84-volt Gotway wheel that uses 800wh batteries packs uses the same battery. You can stick an ACMs+ battery pack in a Monster if you want, or MSX, etc. Or vice versa.

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Are the BMS' independent of model?

Whenever I've seen people mention radwerkstat (sp) and his custom battery packs I've always wondered if he sourced the BMS' from King song/gotway or elsewhere and if the BMS worked independently or if the controller worked in tandem with the BMS and so a specific BMS would be required.

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20 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

Are the BMS' independent of model?

Whenever I've seen people mention radwerkstat (sp) and his custom battery packs I've always wondered if he sourced the BMS' from King song/gotway or elsewhere and if the BMS worked independently or if the controller worked in tandem with the BMS and so a specific BMS would be required.

I believe that in KingSong wheels the BMS communicates with the control board. Not positive thought.

On Gotway, the control board knows nothing about the batteries. All the control board knows about is the measured voltage coming into it.

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Marty said everything you need to know.

20s3p of either 2900mAh (gives you 643Wh = "650Wh") or 3500mAh (777Wh = "800Wh") is the standard 84V Gotway battery pack. Two of these give 1300Wh (1289Wh exactly) or 1600Wh (1554Wh), three give 2400Wh in the Monster (there's no 1930Wh Monster which would be three of the smaller capacity ones).

All 84V wheels use these, except for the MCM5, Tesla (and maybe mten3 if that is 84V) simply because the geometrical shape of the standard pack doesn't fit in these exception wheels. 100% identical packs are used in ACM (84V), ACM2, msuper V3 (84V), MSX (84V), Monster (84V), and the same packs will be in the Nikola, I guarantee.

All 100V wheels use 24s2p 3500mAh packs in the same way, two in the MSX 100V, three in the Monster 100V. Identical packs.

GW likes to use common parts. Same with the motor, their new 2000W motor is in the Monster 100V (if I'm not mistaken), updated 84V Monster, MSX (both 84 and 100V), Nikola.

Just buy standard shaped 84V GW packs on Ali and they're going to be the right ones. Just mind 650Wh vs. 800Wh. Nothing else to worry about.

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1 hour ago, Heyzeus said:

Are the BMS' independent of model?

Whenever I've seen people mention radwerkstat (sp) and his custom battery packs I've always wondered if he sourced the BMS' from King song/gotway or elsewhere and if the BMS worked independently or if the controller worked in tandem with the BMS and so a specific BMS would be required.

 

59 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I believe that in KingSong wheels the BMS communicates with the control board. Not positive thought.

On Gotway, the control board knows nothing about the batteries. All the control board knows about is the measured voltage coming into it.

Nope....

KS and GW dont communicate from BMS to board....KS at least not YET...On the newest KS boards there is allready a port for communication with the Battery/BMS, but until now it is not used. At least, On KS and GW the both BMScommunicate with each other, but not with the board.

IM does a bit communication...a very, very small part...z10 a bit more to my knowledge....at least you are able to read out cells.

 

Chris from 1rad uses standard BMS and programmes them to the wheels need....

 

 

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On 2/22/2019 at 10:00 PM, US69 said:

On KS and GW the both BMScommunicate with each other,

Well, building my additional 1600Wh package didn't take this under consideration. Well, now I just hope that building it from the exactly same cells, as the original ones, giving it exactly same structure (20s3p), supplying it with the original MSX bms and having it connected to the existing battery system by an experienced guy would make all the three 18650 cell packages work together properly... Fortunately as by today everything seems to be working well: the wheel rides as it should, I think battery usage is relative to its capacity, and the amount of Wh taking by the present battery system during charging is EXACTLY as would be expected which I checked with the data obtained from the charge doctor... So far, so good. ;-)

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On 2/22/2019 at 10:00 PM, US69 said:

On KS and GW the both BMScommunicate with each other,

Well, building my additional 1600Wh package didn't take this under consideration. Well, now I just hope that building it from the exactly same cells, as the original ones, giving it exactly same structure (20s3p), supplying it with the original MSX bms and having it connected to the existing battery system by an experienced guy would make all the three 18650 cell packages work together properly... Fortunately as by today everything seems to be working well: the wheel rides as it should, I think battery usage is relative to its capacity, and the amount of Wh taking by the present battery system during charging is EXACTLY as would be expected which I checked with the data obtained from the charge doctor... So far, so good. ;-)

 

P.S.

I'd just like to ask what is the original tire width in ACM, is it 2.125 or 2.5 or maybe any other, please?

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1 hour ago, szaroczek said:

Thank you. And I guess Inmotion V10 16x2,5" would not fit, wouldn't it...?

I don't know. Can't remember ever hearing about an ACM 2.5 tire mod. There was a Tesla 2.5 mod but the shell was cut for it. And there are 2.5 mods for the KS16.

But I think it would not work. I had a quick look at my ACM, and while there is quite some space to the sides, there is very little room for making the tire diameter bigger.

You see those little plastic strands sticking out (from how the tire was produced)? You can hear them chafe the shell until they are rubbed off from riding. (Had the same model of tire last winter, and it was much stronger rubbing then.) So really not much space left, only very few millimeters.

If the 2.5 inch tire is any bigger in diameter than the 2.125 one, it will rub the shell. So I'm 99% sure it will be too big.

1.jpg

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5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If the 2.5 inch tire is any bigger in diameter than the 2.125 one, it will rub the shell. So I'm 99% sure it will be too big.

It sure is because that's what the whole idea is all about - to have bigger tire and ensure much comfort for the rider. ;)

I'm just wondering if cutting off some of ACM body plastic next to the tire would make enough space for the 2.5" balloon without interfering with any other vital parts of the wheel...? And do you think there are possibly any other reasons which would make the 2.5"-tire mod a bad idea for the overall functioning of the ACM?

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I think the problem isn't so much the front and back of the unicycle where the plastic of the shell would rub against the tire, if it was just there one could feasibly trim those pieces back but...

I think it's that internally there is very little space between the shell and the tire, like at the top most part of the tire, there is very little space between that part of the tire that contacts the ground when rotating and the shell.

To the sides there might be more space between the shell and the tire's sidewalls but I think it's an issue of where if the diameter is just a few millimeters larger then a 16x2.125,  it's going to be rubbing the shell inside.

 

But hey if you have the wheel apart and you're feeling adventurous pop that 2.5 tire on and let the rest of us know if it works

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3 hours ago, szaroczek said:

I'm just wondering if cutting off some of ACM body plastic next to the tire would make enough space for the 2.5" balloon without interfering with any other vital parts of the wheel...?

I made some pictures for you of the inside of my spare old ACM shell.

I don't think cutting away at the top is a good idea.

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

I guess you could (maybe?)  get away with such a mod, but the power button/light/charge port/USB/rainbow light will be directly in the wheel well then. Imagine just cutting away a 1cm radius, it interferes a  lot with the shell. If it works, everything's going to be very tight. I can't remember, but the charge port might stick into the inside quite a bit, you might not even be able to cut away much before the tire would hit it. And anything from the road (like a twig) caught in your tire might rip out all those cables there.

3 hours ago, szaroczek said:

And do you think there are possibly any other reasons which would make the 2.5"-tire mod a bad idea for the overall functioning of the ACM?

The ACM doesn't deserve this butchery:eff05cf9bc: Even if it might theoretically work.

And since there is no protection from water or dirt then, it limits when you could use the wheel.

-

If I had to make an ACM 2.5 inch mod, I'd keep the top part of the shell as it is, just cut out the central part with the round hole for the axle and the holes for the screws where it's fastened to the pedal bracket, and move that down so the motor/tire sticks out more of the shell. This is a much simpler mod of the shell than cutting away most of it, and you get no problems with water and dirt intrusion, you still have your intact wheel well.

As you can see, the tire exits the shell directly at axle height, so moving the axle down will give more space for a bigger diameter tire even there.

1.jpg

I'm 99% sure you'd only have to move that central part down and everything would fit. The only other thing (that I can think of) is that the board heatsink has a part over the pedal bracket, you might have to cut that off or modify something so it doesn't interfere if you move the pedal brackets down.

4.jpg

By the way, this more flexible approach gave me the idea to try a 3 inch wide tire mod in the same way. But the width of the wheel well is about 8cm, and 3 inches is 7.6cm, also the entry space for the tire gets thinner towards the top. So you would definitely have to cut a bit away where the tire enters/exits the shell. I think it's too tight overall.

But 2.5'' should be quite easily doable this way. Just a guess, not a guarantee.

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Guys, I try to respond to your feedback and any time I do so the editor restores some of my former version of the content and doesn't let me send the new and corrected one. This is the message I got like five times already and cannot get rid of it in any way: "Your previous content has been restored."

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