ruohki Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 The fluid seems to have damaged the board. Wont turn on anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ch.Eng.62 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Bad. Anyway. You can try. Probably now have short connection somewhere. After washing and capacitors replacement, there is a chance to start working again. Capacitors are cheap. It will not take too much time or money, and is cheaper than buying new mainboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 I thought that these type of capacitors had a sort of fibrous material inside them, not fluid? I believe the board is also plasti-dipped (mine looks like it is) so it's unfortunate that any non-pressurized surface fluid would get itself into any electrical connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 58 minutes ago, Planemo said: I thought that these type of capacitors had a sort of fibrous material inside them, not fluid? There are different kinds - with solid and fluid electrolytes. But both electrolytes can cook and vaporize, causing the bulging and explosion/overpressure valve opening. There is even an own wikipedia article about bad quality electrolyte capacitors on the market about ~10-20 years ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague. If the quality is ok and they are used within their specification they should reach lifespans around and longer than 5 years (was mentioned in this or some similar articles...) 58 minutes ago, Planemo said: I believe the board is also plasti-dipped (mine looks like it is) so it's unfortunate that any non-pressurized surface fluid would get itself into any electrical connections. +1. My guess would be that the mb just doesn't work anymore, because the blown capacitor(s) is/are missing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Deleon Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Is that a common problem on the z10? Is happening to me after I've used it for 3700km. What should I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Leonardo Deleon said: Is that a common problem on the z10? Is happening to me after I've used it for 3700km. What should I do? Have you charged it up and balanced the batterys then it will be ok , if you've been going down hill it puts charge back in but only in one battery, did you do more hills than usual Edited June 25, 2019 by stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Deleon Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, stephen said: Have you charged it up and balanced the batterys then it will be ok , if you've been going down hill it puts charge back in but only in one battery, did you do more hills than usual How do I balance the batteries? It's pretty plane where I live, there's no hills, but I like to push the wheel sometimes, but only up to 45km/h. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Leonardo Deleon said: How do I balance the batteries? It's pretty plane where I live, there's no hills, but I like to push the wheel sometimes, but only up to 45km/h. Charge it up to 100% then leave it on charge several hours more. Ignore the green light on the charger, keep charging. If the Z charger process is similar to all others, the batteries will trickle charge to 100%, even the low ones. Don't leave it at 100% long as this is harmful to the batteries. Ride it withing a few hours of charging. Do this every now and then, twice a month at most (personal opinion) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Deleon Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 6/25/2019 at 10:53 PM, Smoother said: Charge it up to 100% then leave it on charge several hours more. Ignore the green light on the charger, keep charging. If the Z charger process is similar to all others, the batteries will trickle charge to 100%, even the low ones. Don't leave it at 100% long as this is harmful to the batteries. Ride it withing a few hours of charging. Do this every now and then, twice a month at most (personal opinion) Which charging schedule do you use on your wheel? I normally always charge it up after use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbhb Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Leonardo Deleon said: Which charging schedule do you use on your wheel? I normally always charge it up after use I have always charged my wheel up to 100% just before I have a ride planned, as previously pointed out by @Smoother. I will always ride until the battery is down to around 20% to get the most range out of the wheel and before it gets annoying to ride any longer at a snails pace! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 14 hours ago, Leonardo Deleon said: Which charging schedule do you use on your wheel? I normally always charge it up after use I charge to between 80 and 90 usually after I get home (30 minute drive in car typically). If I remember I top it up while preparing for the next ride. My charge doctor used to stop it somewhere around 90% but something got changed so now it doesn't stop. So I use a timer and read the voltage off the Charge Doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Deleon Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Bad news. I had the battery balanced the beginning of the week and it ran fine until 25%. I charged it again and ran until 45%. I left it overnight and one cell of battery 2 got discharged so I can't use the wheel. Should I replace cell 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Look in "battery 2" Cell 1 is at 2.9V, Cell 2 is at 4.3V. That is not normal at all. It should never go above 4.2. 3.0V really is the cutoff voltage for these batteries, go any lower and they will get damaged. I think you should replace battery 2, to be on the safe side. I presume that there will be big differences in internal resistance too. That is if the tool you used to read this info is reliable. On 6/25/2019 at 10:53 PM, Smoother said: Ride it withing a few hours of charging. That's a bit extreme. I agree you shouldn't have it on 100% for weeks in a row, but: - a few days isn't really a problem - we have battery drain so they won't stay at 100% anyway on the Z10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: - a few days isn't really a problem Do you have a technical source to confirm this statement? I'd love to charge to 100% and leave it there for days if there is proof it doesn't hurt the batteries. Battery university says keeping li ions at high voltage stresses them, but doesn't state how long. So I err on the safer side, in the absence of actual data Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Do you have a technical source to confirm that a few hours is the longest to be safe? I have plenty of LiPos at home that I use for drone flying. Never encountered issues when charging them at 100% and leaving them for a couple of days. And these things empty in a few minutes, not after 100km of riding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) And of course what you do will be safer, but how much it really changes in reality is a big question. Undervoltage is a lot worse than keeping them at 100%. Luckily we have a BMS to avoid this. Edited July 3, 2019 by ir_fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 12 hours ago, ir_fuel said: Do you have a technical source to confirm that a few hours is the longest to be safe? Yes; batteryuniversity.com https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries I also suspect that on a battery that drains in minutes, a reasonable percentage drop would manifest itself in a reduction of usable power of a few seconds. Probably not noticeable unless one times ones flights with a stop watch and has the exact same power demand for each flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew87 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 On 2/14/2019 at 9:42 AM, Marty Backe said: I'm pretty sure the double-digit failure rate that Jason mentions has nothing to do with the battery discharge issue. It's actual failed hardware, out-of-the-box. As mentioned here and elsewhere, if you get a Z10 and it works for the first week, you'll probably have a long-life wheel. But until you open the box, you're rolling the dice. We should rename the Z10 to Schrodinger's Wheel: it can be considered both dead and alive until you open the box. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Deleon Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 11:54 AM, Smoother said: Do you have a technical source to confirm this statement? I'd love to charge to 100% and leave it there for days if there is proof it doesn't hurt the batteries. Battery university says keeping li ions at high voltage stresses them, but doesn't state how long. So I err on the safer side, in the absence of actual data So after balancing the batteries again I can understand the symptom: I can ride it as much as I like now and it will remain balanced. But if I leave the wheel with 3 dots (45%) unplugged for 8+ hours, cell 1 on battery 2 gets drained and I have the problem all over again. Somehow the cell is not being able to hold the charge below a certain percentage. I'm undecided on getting a new battery, cause the price for it would be already a good sum for another more reliable wheel. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziiten Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) On 6/25/2019 at 7:38 PM, Leonardo Deleon said: Is that a common problem on the z10? Is happening to me after I've used it for 3700km. What should I do? I was just about to make a post about this exact same issue - I have it too. I always charge to 100% using the stock charger. My wheel has about 2500 km on it. I have noticed that riding after charging I seem to get this message always now. But if I turn the wheel off and on after I get the extreme tiltback (usually limits me to 7 km/h) the problem goes away for a short while. Then the same all over again and after a while I wont be getting the error again and I can pretty much ride the battery to low without issues. But the next day after recharge the same issue appears again. Do I have bad cells in one of the batteries or what? Edit: I'll answer myself. Here's how my batteries look like. Look ok to me. Edited July 8, 2019 by Ziiten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 12:27 PM, ir_fuel said: Look in "battery 2" Cell 1 is at 2.9V, Cell 2 is at 4.3V. That is not normal at all. It should never go above 4.2. Exactly. If that was my wheel, I wouldn’t charge or use it at all. One cell is below the ridable voltage range, another is above. Riding will pull the cell with the undervoltage even lower, seriously risking a sudden cutout. And charging will overcharge the already overcharged cell, which makes it a fire hazard. The cell #1 in battery 2 is done, no way around it. Charging to 100% right before a ride does not give the battery the opportunity to do the balance charging. That might’ve been the issue here. Slowly the one cell has drifted to a lower voltage, eventually destroying the whole battery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Charging to 100% right before a ride does not give the battery the opportunity to do the balance charging. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Charging to 100% right before a ride does not give the battery the opportunity to do the balance charging. 3 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: Why? Balancing happens at the constant voltage part of the charge - the last and longest part. So one should not go for 100% charge reported, but full voltage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chriull said: Balancing happens at the constant voltage part of the charge - the last and longest part. So one should not go for 100% charge reported, but full voltage! I don't see the link with "right before a ride". Unless you mean closely watching your charger and unplugging it right when the light goes green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, ir_fuel said: I don't see the link with "right before a ride". If one charges shortly before a ride until it's showing 100% there would be no (charging.) Edit: balancing. Quote Unless you mean closely watching your charger and unplugging it right when the light goes green. I'm not sure - but imho changing to green is when the charger shuts off? So the balancing part is done. ... and obe has reached the full voltage after unplugging the charger... Edited July 9, 2019 by Chriull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.