[EcoDrift.ru] Ninebot Z10: A Diagnosis of Common Issues

[Afeez Kay]

2 hours ago, RoberAce said:

Jason's experience is to paint a very black image of the Ninebot Z with dramatic nuances that do not correspond at all with the worldwide success that is obtaining and the thousands of units that currently circulate in a community that grows every day more. It is true that there were problems with it, and it was mostly due to manufacturing defect in batch 2 of the controller board. Jason imported all his units in the month of August 2018 where almost all belong to that Batch with which I can understand that using this yardstick can understand that the final verdict is that the ninebot Z10 for him and all those affected is a full disaster. My friend Eduardo from Spain bought Ninebot Z10 on AliExpress (like me) with the difference that mine belongs to Batch 1 and him to Batch 2, and the bad apple came out, the controller board burned down including melting to the engine cables that also burned, Ninebot directly from China covered and sent both boards the controller and power board, and a replacement engine too without any cost, with the inconvenience that he had to wait more than three months since everything was had to manage between Spain and Ninebot matrix of China, thank goodness right now Eduardo enjoys his Ninebot Z10 fully. The spare parts of the Ninebot Z10 are all available on AliExpress, now there is a complete collection of the spare parts of the Ninebot Z10 and every day they sell more, Jason requested spare parts of the Ninebot Z10 many months ago and at that time there were not, but now it is no the case. Ninebot Z10 announced the Ninebot Z certification for Europe for April, so everything indicates that Ninebot does not plan to discontinue its manufacture and commercialization.

Without forgetting that there were certainly problems especially at the beginning, I think this post reflects a biased reality of what is really a success of a wheel that has come to stay where every day we are more riders. I'm sorry that for the US market, (maybe too early, ) there was such a bad luck and it was such a bad experience

How do I know what batch number my z10 is part of? I bought mine as part of the 11/11 AliExpress sales.

thank you.

[Girth Brooks]

12 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Also, I get the feeling that at least all of us first batch Z riders (maybe also the 2nd & 3rd US batches), like me & @Marty Backe have been riding pretty much problem free. 

Wonder if this first batch failure rate was significantly lower than the 20% figure.

 

This is odd to me honestly. Usually you get failure and bad stock from the first few models/batches of anything in manufacturing really. I am in the auto industry. I ALWAYS tell people I know to not buy a brand new model of a car or truck for this very reason.

[Planemo]

I would usually agree on your viewpoint Girth, but I have been following the Z10 story closely and I am wondering if the demand for them went up so steeply that Ninebot had to outsource the boards to other companies to meet this demand. As has been suggested, QC could have taken a hit during the rush for Ninebot to satisfy their customers. A risky strategy for sure, and one that has bit them hard. It does appear that they have now resolved the issue though.

If it was a car, then Ninebot should be recalling/contacting all owners of affected serial numbers to have their boards replaced. But with Grey imports, this isn't going to happen. Part of the risk of buying grey unfortunately.

On a separate note, has anyone ever posted what the actual battery voltages are for DOA wheels where they won't take charge? I know that someone measured the voltage off the board (around 4.8v) but this isn't the true battery voltage AFAIK. It would be nice to know what the batteries are dropping too, so I can make an accurate guess as to whether the cells are what I deem to be 'permanently damaged'. This figure isn't rocket science, and I accept that damaged batteries will take a charge, but this doesn't mean they are not damaged. The repercussions of this will only likely rear their head in the longer term.

[houseofjob]

@RoberAce 

Interesting.

Did you really have to replace the tire, as I don't see any balding happening? (or was there a flat?)

Also, were the bearings easy to swap out? Are they a common size that you sourced locally?

[Afeez Kay]

4 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@RoberAce 

Interesting.

Did you really have to replace the tire, as I don't see any balding happening? (or was there a flat?)

Also, were the bearings easy to swap out? Are they a common size that you sourced locally?

dude i like your footer information.. i want that too  how did you get that to appear? 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Afeez Kay

[Vanzen]

About the tire ...

Wasnt the old and worn one much more pleasant to use as it wouldnt get "stuck" in grooves or irregualities anymore ?

[Girth Brooks]

Just now, Vanzen said:

About the tire ...

Wasnt the old and worn one much more pleasant to use as it wouldnt get "stuck" in grooves or irregualities anymore ?

My tire isn't worn by any means and I overcame this issue on mine with riding time I guess. I used to notice and now I never do.

[houseofjob]

22 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I would usually agree on your viewpoint Girth, but I have been following the Z10 story closely and I am wondering if the demand for them went up so steeply that Ninebot had to outsource the boards to other companies to meet this demand. As has been suggested, QC could have taken a hit during the rush for Ninebot to satisfy their customers. A risky strategy for sure, and one that has bit them hard. It does appear that they have now resolved the issue though.

Outsourcing board production makes no sense IMHO. This is the area where they can save cost by cheap manual labor, plus the board is always developed in-house and the programming within it is proprietary tech, something they don't want other competitors to reverse-engineer and copy, pre-model launch.

The issue is just typical bad Chinese manual workmanship IMHO, especially when rushed and not QC checked.

 

22 minutes ago, Planemo said:

If it was a car, then Ninebot should be recalling/contacting all owners of affected serial numbers to have their boards replaced. But with Grey imports, this isn't going to happen. Part of the risk of buying grey unfortunately.

They did that with the 16" One P Pro model shortly after that debacle of a launch.

I don't think the issue here was severe and consistent enough, as the P issue was literally riders high speed cutting out from the engineering downfalls of that model.

 

4 minutes ago, Afeez Kay said:

dude i like your footer information.. i want that too  how did you get that to appear? 

Thanks! It's all DIY: photoshopped transparency PNG's linked to my imgur account.

 

22 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I would usually agree on your viewpoint Girth, but I have been following the Z10 story closely and I am wondering if the demand for them went up so steeply that Ninebot had to outsource the boards to other companies to meet this demand. As has been suggested, QC could have taken a hit during the rush for Ninebot to satisfy their customers. A risky strategy for sure, and one that has bit them hard. It does appear that they have now resolved the issue though.

Outsourcing board production makes no sense IMHO. This is the area where they can save cost by cheap manual labor, plus the board is always developed in-house and the programming within it is proprietary tech, something they don't want other competitors to reverse-engineer and copy, pre-model launch.

The issue is just typical bad Chinese manual workmanship IMHO, especially when rushed and not QC checked.

 

22 minutes ago, Planemo said:

If it was a car, then Ninebot should be recalling/contacting all owners of affected serial numbers to have their boards replaced. But with Grey imports, this isn't going to happen. Part of the risk of buying grey unfortunately.

They did that with the 16" One P Pro model shortly after that debacle of a launch.

I don't think the issue here was severe and consistent enough, as the P issue was literally riders high speed cutting out from the engineering downfalls of that model.

 

4 minutes ago, Afeez Kay said:

dude i like your footer information.. i want that too  how did you get that to appear? 

Thanks! It's all DIY: photoshopped transparency PNG's linked to my imgur account.

 

[houseofjob]

49 minutes ago, Afeez Kay said:

How do I know what batch number my z10 is part of? I bought mine as part of the 11/11 AliExpress sales.

thank you.

My first batch Z10 serial starts N3OTC1831XXXX, if that helps.

[Girth Brooks]

@Afeez Kay my no issue Z10 is: N3OTC1833XXXXX if that helps. I assume mine is 3rd batch.

[Afeez Kay]

14 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

My first batch Z10 serial starts N3OTC1831XXXX, if that helps.

mine is N30TC1833TXXXX.. So first batch OR third? (tell me its not 2nd ) should I be expecting some issues or not?

12 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

@Afeez Kay my no issue Z10 is: N3OTC1833XXXXX if that helps. I assume mine is 3rd batch.

Thanks.

[Girth Brooks]

@Afeez Kay you have a third batch like mine. 1832 is batch  2.

[LeusMi]

3 hours ago, RoberAce said:

6.063kms 3,767miles. Issues only bearings it was necesary replace after 6.000kms, because originals damaged due intense use and wear 

What kind of bearings do I have to order to speed up a repair shop work?
Thanks!

 

[Afeez Kay]

1 minute ago, Girth Brooks said:

@Afeez Kay you have a third batch like mine. 1832 is batch  2.

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, RoberAce said:

6.063kms 3,767miles. Issues only bearings it was necesary replace after 6.000kms, because originals damaged due intense use and wear

 

Wow, at so many levels   You replaced the bearings! You da man 

Fortunately with the number of wheels that I have to spread my mileage across, and perhaps under less harsh riding conditions, my Z10 will never need new bearings 

Thanks for the encouraging report.

P.s. perhaps you should get another wheel so you don't wear out your Z10 so fast  

[Mimetic Polyalloy]

32 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

@Afeez Kay you have a third batch like mine. 1832 is batch  2.

Don´t want to bring new doubts but are you shure about that reference? I read in an other thread Z10's serial number N30TC1844T0001 contains the time of assembly: year=18, week = 44th for example. So I think we have to find out production time window for any batch. Maybe someone here can help?

BTW I totally agree what you said about first batches of anything in production reality. Buying them means looking for trouble often.

 

[Girth Brooks]

@Mimetic Polyalloy I am not 100% certain.

[houseofjob]

@Mimetic Polyalloy this is part of my reason for posting the front of my Z10 serial, hoping we can compare.

The 1844 could also mean the first 4 is international, second 4 is number batch, but I would still just be guessing here.

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Outsourcing board production makes no sense IMHO. This is the area where they can save cost by cheap manual labor, plus the board is always developed in-house and the programming within it is proprietary tech, something they don't want other competitors to reverse-engineer and copy, pre-model launch.

The issue is just typical bad Chinese manual workmanship IMHO, especially when rushed and not QC checked.

So you are saying that the Z10 boards are hand assembled and hand soldered?

And it still doesn't answer why the board components/layout changed (for the worse it seems, given the earlier boards had fewer problems).

[RoberAce]

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

@RoberAce 

Interesante.

¿Realmente tuvo que reemplazar el neumático, ya que no veo que ocurra ninguna calvicie? (¿o había un piso?)

Además, ¿fueron fáciles de cambiar los cojinetes? ¿Son de un tamaño común que obtuviste localmente?

I continue with the same tire, I think it still has a lot of life ahead.

The bearings were replaced by others purchased locally, the originals was 6004 RZ, changed for shielded SKF 6004ZZ

This has had as a consequence that now accelerates much faster, has more development, reaches the top speed early than before, in other hand is a bit harder to brake

[RoberAce]

Changing the bearings is a bit hard, you have to disassemble it completely including the engine, the tire if it is not necessary to remove it.

The damaged left bearing could have caused a serious accident, because it caused the motor winding to rub against the inside of the rim, which could have caused a complete failure

 

[RoberAce]

[RoberAce]

Bearings failure

 

[RockyTop]

   The statement about the Z10 being garbage was not supposed to be public. When trying to get to the root of a problem it is common to make bold statements to engage other people’s opinions. It is kinda like negotiating. I think it is garbage. ( Change my mind. ) That said what do you call a batch of wheels with multiple problems. 

   From what I have heard from multiple dealers the problem is not a batch of bad components or an engineering flaw on a pioneer product. These things are expected. The problem is that Ninebot is making it very difficult for the dealers to make things right after a failure happens. Our dealers have to take care of their customer and in the end make money. 

  People seem to love the wheel. I am not Interested in owning a Z10. I would like to see it succeed and force the other companies to step up their game. Or create a new niche category of wheel. 

[JBoo]

6 hours ago, RoberAce said:

6.063kms 3,767miles. Issues only bearings it was necesary replace after 6.000kms, because originals damaged due intense use and wear

This is rather encouraging as I don’t do the sort of intense riding you enjoy, so it may be 5 or 6,000miles before I have to look into doing some serious maintenance like replacing the tire and/or wheel bearings.