RockyTop Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 @RoberAce Thanks for all the great pictures and info. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 @JBoo That was my thought as well. Mine should last me for as long as I own it. I still may buy an extra board to be safe though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyzeus Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Curious if bearing replacement is commonly needed on higher mileage king song/gotway wheels. The fact it accumulated so many miles though is encouraging for those with ones that haven't had problems that they aren't going to spontaneously have problems 800 miles in. Makes sense that bearings wouldn't last forever but don't know how many miles a bearing should last as to be able to judge whether 3,700 miles is a short, standard, or long bearing life Do motorcycle wheels have bearings on their rim/wheel hubs that need to be replaced every so many thousand miles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoberAce Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Heyzeus said: Curious if bearing replacement is commonly needed on higher mileage king song/gotway wheels. The fact it accumulated so many miles though is encouraging for those with ones that haven't had problems that they aren't going to spontaneously have problems 800 miles in. Makes sense that bearings wouldn't last forever but don't know how many miles a bearing should last as to be able to judge whether 3,700 miles is a short, standard, or long bearing life Do motorcycle wheels have bearings on their rim/wheel hubs that need to be replaced every so many thousand miles? Motorcycle has suspension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, Heyzeus said: Curious if bearing replacement is commonly needed on higher mileage king song/gotway wheels. The fact it accumulated so many miles though is encouraging for those with ones that haven't had problems that they aren't going to spontaneously have problems 800 miles in. Makes sense that bearings wouldn't last forever but don't know how many miles a bearing should last as to be able to judge whether 3,700 miles is a short, standard, or long bearing life Do motorcycle wheels have bearings on their rim/wheel hubs that need to be replaced every so many thousand miles? Other people have ridden more miles without having to replace the bearings. I think this is a bit of an outlier and certainly depends on how rough you are with your wheel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyzeus Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, RoberAce said: Motorcycle has suspension doesn't the rim still have bearings that the axel has to go through or are you saying the suspension takes a lot of the stress off the bearings and they last longer. https://imgur.com/a/G4jbz4f Edited February 15, 2019 by Heyzeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Girth Brooks Posted February 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 15, 2019 @Heyzeus they certainly have axle/wheel bearings like every wheeled vehicle does. I believe @RoberAce is referring to the use of his wheel in extreme environments as in his bearing were exposed to lots of water, sand, dirt etc. All of those things wheel prematurely kill wheel bearings in any vehicle. The fact the wheel has no suspension is also hard on the axle bearings but not as much as the other things mentioned. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Motorcycles also have rubber cups against the bearings, the inside of which surrounds the axle. They are impervious to any non-pressurized water. I have never had to change axle bearings on my motorcycles (16 of them) irrespective of mileage. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 @Planemo me either on the motorcycles I've owned. ATV bearings which are also sealed off are a much different story though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) These bearing are an off the shelf size. But the label on that "shelf" doesn't say" EUC bearings", there is no such thing. It may say "first motion shaft bearings" or something else. I replaced my bearings a year ago on my KS14C, because 1) the wheel was already apart, and 2) they were a bit rough due to damaged dust seals from me getting my leash wrapped ultra tight around both sides of the axles. My replacement SKF (like @RoberAce) bearings were the EXACT same size as the first motion shaft bearing for my Mazda MX5 Miata. First motion shaft bearing do not support any weight, they just locate the front shaft of the gearbox as it rotates and meshes with the flywheel. EUC bearing DO support weight, a lot of weight, relative to their size. Add to that, dirt and water ingress (both of which aren't present in the engine gearbox cavity) , AND that it's 99% possible these bearings are Chinese manufactured (i.e. not the best quality) and you have a recipe for premature (relative to the automotive industry) failure. My Lexus has nearly 200,000 miles (324,000km) and not one wheel bearing has needed replacing, and each wheel supports around 500kg (1,050lb) static, and a hell of a lot more when cornering or breaking. BTW @RoberAce I'm not sure you picked the best replacement bearings, those ones with the segmented steel shields are not very "shieldy, If I remember my research. I went for rubber seals both sides, but because they dragged a bit, I halved the drag by removing the seals from inside the motor, where there is no dirt or water. Edited February 15, 2019 by Smoother 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Planemo said: So you are saying that the Z10 boards are hand assembled and hand soldered? And it still doesn't answer why the board components/layout changed (for the worse it seems, given the earlier boards had fewer problems). With every EUC factory video I've seen of King Song and Gotway, hand assembly seems to be the case across the 'board' Could be wrong though... 1 hour ago, Heyzeus said: Curious if bearing replacement is commonly needed on higher mileage king song/gotway wheels. The fact it accumulated so many miles though is encouraging for those with ones that haven't had problems that they aren't going to spontaneously have problems 800 miles in. I think this is largely due to the really high mileage and hard riding, not what make or model wheel this is. Here's the same possible bearing issue (among others) happening on a high mileage, highly abused InMotion V10F: https://ecodrift.ru/2019/01/25/usluga-tehnicheskoe-obsluzhivanie-na-primere-inmotion-v10f/ Many of us habitual upgraders will never see this much mileage accumulation before we sell and trade up in 1-2 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Anything by SKF will be good (if not fake). It's worth paying top dollar for bearings, which in the case of EUC's won't be a lot of money anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Just now, Planemo said: Anything by SKF will be good (if not fake). It's worth paying top dollar for bearings, which in the case of EUC's won't be a lot of money anyway. About £5 each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 That bearing can be easily procured from various manufacturers. The size surely cannot be anything uncommon. Just need to use a micrometer to measure for your application. I would be buying a sealed bearing of the absolute highest quality in whatever application of EUC I was replacing it for though. That can't be an easy task to replace so I would buy the best available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, RoberAce said: 6.063kms 3,767miles. Issues only bearings it was necesary replace after 6.000kms, because originals damaged due intense use and wear Hi RoberAce, I am surprised that the bearing would wear out after less than 4k miles, yet the tyre is still ok. Did you check the worn bearing to see if there was still grease in it or did it suffer water damage that removed grease and increased wear? Edited February 16, 2019 by Nic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lukasz Posted February 16, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 16, 2019 Those Chinese bearings are not the highest quality, and for sure they are not sealed good enough... My friend had the misfortune with KS16S which fell into the river (always be careful when riding along the river/lake...) After 1/2 hour in muddy river water wheel was taken out from the 1.5 meter deep water... I had to dismantle it, also open the motor as it was half-full of water. In fact wheel survived relatively well - the only parts which needed replacement were controller board, one of the batteries (second one was sealed so well that water did not get inside at all) and front/back led lamps. The rest of the wheel survived - I had to clean it and dry everything for a week or two (It took not to long to get the parts directly from Kingsong.. maybe like 2 weeks) then I put it back together and the wheel was fine, EXCEPT that two weeks later I had to replace bearings - 6203RS as the water ingress caused them to get noisy and rust inside... So - keep the Chinese bearings far from water! I have passed 2700km on my Z10 - no issues so far, no noise from bearings. 6 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 On 2/14/2019 at 5:03 PM, Nic said: Fu#k ... I may never see my Z10 now. @Nic are you still waiting for your z10 from ninebot uk? If they are not coming to uk you need to do something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoberAce Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) On 2/15/2019 at 4:20 PM, Marty Backe said: ¡Guau, a tantos niveles que reemplazaste los cojinetes! Eres el hombre Afortunadamente, con la cantidad de ruedas por las que tengo que repartir mi kilometraje, y tal vez en condiciones de conducción menos duras, mi Z10 nunca necesitará nuevos rodamientos Gracias por el informe alentador. Quizás deberías conseguir otra rueda para no desgastar tu Z10 tan rápido. before the Z10 I have a KS16S that I still have with 6440 kms and I love it Edited February 16, 2019 by RoberAce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, stephen said: @Nic are you still waiting for your z10 from ninebot uk? If they are not coming to uk you need to do something Yes, I am still waiting ... and the Ninebot UK website has issues ...and he doesn't reply to my emails ... I will chase him up again in a month or so ... Edited February 16, 2019 by Nic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 10:36 AM, Mimetic Polyalloy said: Don´t want to bring new doubts but are you shure about that reference? I read in an other thread Z10's serial number N30TC1844T0001 contains the time of assembly: year=18, week = 44th for example. y’all made me look. mine says 1832 but the sticker on the box says 1808 below the sn, so maybe 8th month 2018 or 32nd week? who knows, haven’t been riding but no issues with mine yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 3:34 AM, Lukasz said: o - keep the Chinese bearings far from water! Thats the point....and not only chinese bearing ... getting ANY Euc dumped into water and you will have rust on bearings and motor inside. For this 2nd or 3rd or whatever batch thing.... Jason had multiple deliverys of the z10...all having the same failure rate. And thats not only him reporting this problems. Main point is the ugly support from 9b! if that could be even called service or support, it all would be no problem! So i absolutly dont think he is "painting something black"....when 9b gives him no chance at all to stay in positive numbers with the z10, he cant do anything else as getting away of selling this wheel! ALL chinese EUC manufacturs are not easy to handle...but from personal conversation with Jason i know that 9b is the crownjuwel in ignoring the resellers :-) board quality: no, the boards of our eucs are not handsoldered, quality of the board/ used parts is another question ;-) ..what is partly handsoldered are the specific battery packs, as these are no "standard" size and not available as "mass produced" 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jason McNeil Posted February 19, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) On 2/15/2019 at 7:32 AM, RoberAce said: Jason imported all his units in the month of August 2018 where almost all belong to that Batch with which I can understand that using this yardstick can understand that the final verdict is that the ninebot Z10 for him and all those affected is a full disaster. Roberto, I respect your opinion & it's wonderful you've had a personal positive experience with the Z10, but you're asserting some definite points of fact which are not correct. We made three separate acquisitions of the Z10 (150x in total) from August to November, these out-of-box board failures (15x) occurred over all three production runs. The Z10 failures are not limited to the controllers either, we've encountered many self-discharged batteries & a few melted motor wires as well. Ecodrift, in this thread, has reported a similar experience with their Customers. A battery pack where the cells are discharged below 2v per cell are, according to the cell manufacturers, beyond redemption. You might be able to boost them up to get it going again, but it's going to have an impact on the longevity of the pack. On 2/15/2019 at 7:32 AM, RoberAce said: Jason requested spare parts of the Ninebot Z10 many months ago and at that time there were not, but now it is no the case. This is also not true, I've requested to purchase spare parts many many times, going back from August until more recently in January. Has anyone at Ninebot made any statement acknowledging the earlier production problems & what they're doing to remediate them, as the other manufacturers have had to with Wheel releases that have not gone smoothly? It's not as if they haven't had time, remember this product has been under development for nearly three years from today. On 2/15/2019 at 7:32 AM, RoberAce said: Ninebot Z10 announced the Ninebot Z certification for Europe for April, so everything indicates that Ninebot does not plan to discontinue its manufacture and commercialization. Is there information from Ninebot themselves on this claim? Recall that Ninebot had promised a global Z10 release going back from December. Edited February 19, 2019 by Jason McNeil 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: battery pack where the cells are discharged below 2v per cell are, according to the cell manufacturers, beyond redemption. You might be able to boost them up to get it going again, but it's going to have an impact on the longevity of the pack. A battery pack which had dropped in voltage this far. (under 2 volt per cell)......i personally would not touch/use anymore! Going over max or under minimum cell voltage destroys, hurts the cells Chemistry,something you can not see and also can not measure at the time! the cell after boosting it up MIGHT look perfect, but is a good chance that it fails directly when a bit higher amperage is drawn. Failing can mean totally collapse then. Thats why you never ever should deplete a cell to far.....its just a unknown risk then :-( Just measuring the cell resistance can give a clue about it, then...but measuring this -correct- can only be done by highquality tools, the normal user doesnt have.... Thats why reputated cell manufacters like samsung, pansonic and lg are needed....as only they deliver continuos quality. nonetheless: Even their cells cant take such a beating. So in general.its no problem to "restart" a z10 or any battery...as the z10 firmware/bms prob allready starts at 3,2 volt or so...but it shoukd be checked how deep the cells actually really have been!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) On 2/15/2019 at 2:53 PM, Planemo said: On a separate note, has anyone ever posted what the actual battery voltages are for DOA wheels where they won't take charge? I know that someone measured the voltage off the board (around 4.8v) but this isn't the true battery voltage AFAIK. It would be nice to know what the batteries are dropping too, so I can make an accurate guess as to whether the cells are what I deem to be 'permanently damaged'. This figure isn't rocket science, and I accept that damaged batteries will take a charge, but this doesn't mean they are not damaged. The repercussions of this will only likely rear their head in the longer term. I measured something like 12V on the XT60 connector. Now, how many electronics there are between that connector and the actual battery cells, I don't know. But if I understood it correctly, once the battery cells drop below 3.2, the BMS completely shuts it down? So it shouldn't be able to continue to deplete the battery then? Edited February 19, 2019 by ir_fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: I measured something like 12V on the XT60 connector. Now, how many electronics there are between that connector and the actual battery cells, I don't know. But if I understood it correctly, once the battery cells drop below 3.2, the BMS completely shuts it down? So it shouldn't be able to continue to deplete the battery then? You are right...should!!! and whats left measured than is just the resistance of what the shutting mosfet lets through.... So has not to say much when such a voltage like 12V is measured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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