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[EcoDrift.ru] Ninebot Z10: A Diagnosis of Common Issues

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@JBoo That was my thought as well. Mine should last me for as long as I own it. I still may buy an extra board to be safe though.

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Curious if bearing replacement is commonly needed on higher mileage king song/gotway wheels.  The fact it accumulated so many miles though is encouraging for those with ones that haven't had problems that they aren't going to spontaneously have problems 800 miles in.

Makes sense that bearings wouldn't last forever but don't know how many miles a bearing should last as to be able to judge whether 3,700 miles is a short, standard, or long bearing life

Do motorcycle wheels have bearings on their rim/wheel hubs that need to be replaced every so many thousand miles?

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5 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

Curious if bearing replacement is commonly needed on higher mileage king song/gotway wheels.  The fact it accumulated so many miles though is encouraging for those with ones that haven't had problems that they aren't going to spontaneously have problems 800 miles in.

Makes sense that bearings wouldn't last forever but don't know how many miles a bearing should last as to be able to judge whether 3,700 miles is a short, standard, or long bearing life

Do motorcycle wheels have bearings on their rim/wheel hubs that need to be replaced every so many thousand miles?

Motorcycle has suspension 

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13 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

Curious if bearing replacement is commonly needed on higher mileage king song/gotway wheels.  The fact it accumulated so many miles though is encouraging for those with ones that haven't had problems that they aren't going to spontaneously have problems 800 miles in.

Makes sense that bearings wouldn't last forever but don't know how many miles a bearing should last as to be able to judge whether 3,700 miles is a short, standard, or long bearing life

Do motorcycle wheels have bearings on their rim/wheel hubs that need to be replaced every so many thousand miles?

Other people have ridden more miles without having to replace the bearings. I think this is a bit of an outlier and certainly depends on how rough you are with your wheel.

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10 minutes ago, RoberAce said:

Motorcycle has suspension 

doesn't the rim still have bearings that the axel has to go through or are you saying the suspension takes a lot of the stress off the bearings and they last longer.

https://imgur.com/a/G4jbz4f

Edited by Heyzeus

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Motorcycles also have rubber cups against the bearings, the inside of which surrounds the axle. They are impervious to any non-pressurized water. I have never had to change axle bearings on my motorcycles (16 of them) irrespective of mileage.

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@Planemo me either on the motorcycles I've owned. ATV bearings which are also sealed off are a much different story though.

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These bearing are an off the shelf size.  But the label on that "shelf" doesn't say" EUC bearings", there is no such thing. It may say "first motion shaft bearings" or something else.  I replaced my bearings a year ago on my KS14C, because 1) the wheel was already apart, and 2) they were a bit rough due to damaged dust seals from me getting my leash wrapped ultra tight around both sides of the axles.  My replacement SKF (like @RoberAce) bearings were the EXACT same size as the first motion shaft bearing for my Mazda MX5 Miata.  First motion shaft bearing do not support any weight, they just locate the front shaft of the gearbox as it rotates and meshes with the flywheel.  EUC bearing DO support weight, a lot of weight, relative to their size. Add to that, dirt and water ingress (both of which aren't present in the engine gearbox cavity) , AND that it's 99% possible these bearings are Chinese manufactured (i.e. not the best quality) and you have a recipe for premature (relative to the automotive industry) failure.  My Lexus has nearly 200,000 miles (324,000km) and not one wheel bearing has needed replacing, and each wheel supports around 500kg (1,050lb) static, and a hell of a lot more when cornering or breaking.

BTW @RoberAce I'm not sure you picked the best replacement bearings, those ones with the segmented steel shields are not very "shieldy, If I remember my research.  I went for rubber seals both sides, but because they dragged a bit, I halved the drag by removing the seals from inside the motor, where there is no dirt or water.

Edited by Smoother
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5 hours ago, Planemo said:

So you are saying that the Z10 boards are hand assembled and hand soldered?

And it still doesn't answer why the board components/layout changed (for the worse it seems, given the earlier boards had fewer problems).

With every EUC factory video I've seen of King Song and Gotway, hand assembly seems to be the case across the 'board' :lol: Could be wrong though...

 

1 hour ago, Heyzeus said:

Curious if bearing replacement is commonly needed on higher mileage king song/gotway wheels.  The fact it accumulated so many miles though is encouraging for those with ones that haven't had problems that they aren't going to spontaneously have problems 800 miles in.

I think this is largely due to the really high mileage and hard riding, not what make or model wheel this is.

Here's the same possible bearing issue (among others) happening on a high mileage, highly abused InMotion V10F: https://ecodrift.ru/2019/01/25/usluga-tehnicheskoe-obsluzhivanie-na-primere-inmotion-v10f/

Many of us habitual upgraders :D will never see this much mileage accumulation before we sell and trade up in 1-2 years.

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Anything by SKF will be good (if not fake). It's worth paying top dollar for bearings, which in the case of EUC's won't be a lot of money anyway.

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Just now, Planemo said:

Anything by SKF will be good (if not fake). It's worth paying top dollar for bearings, which in the case of EUC's won't be a lot of money anyway.

About £5 each

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That bearing can be easily procured from various manufacturers. The size surely cannot be anything uncommon. Just need to use a micrometer to measure for your application. I would be buying a sealed bearing of the absolute highest quality in whatever application of EUC I was replacing it for though. That can't be an easy task to replace so I would buy the best available.

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13 hours ago, RoberAce said:

6.063kms 3,767miles. Issues only bearings it was necesary replace after 6.000kms, because originals damaged due intense use and wear

Hi RoberAce, I am surprised that the bearing would wear out after less than 4k miles, yet the tyre is still ok. Did you check the worn bearing to see if there was still grease in it or did it suffer water damage that removed grease and increased wear?

Edited by Nic

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On 2/14/2019 at 5:03 PM, Nic said:

Fu#k ... I may never see my Z10 now. :crying:

@Nic are you still waiting for your z10 from ninebot uk? If they are not coming to uk you need to do something

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On 2/15/2019 at 4:20 PM, Marty Backe said:

¡Guau, a tantos niveles  : shock2:  que reemplazaste los cojinetes! Eres el hombre :aclamaciones:

Afortunadamente, con la cantidad de ruedas por las que tengo que repartir mi kilometraje, y tal vez en condiciones de conducción menos duras, mi Z10 nunca necesitará nuevos rodamientos :)

Gracias por el informe alentador.

Quizás deberías conseguir otra rueda para no desgastar tu Z10 tan rápido. :) 

before the Z10 I have a KS16S that I still have with 6440 kms and I love it :wub:

Edited by RoberAce
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3 hours ago, stephen said:

@Nic are you still waiting for your z10 from ninebot uk? If they are not coming to uk you need to do something

Yes, I am still waiting ... and the Ninebot UK website has issues ...and he doesn't reply to my emails ... I will chase him up again in a month or so ...

Edited by Nic
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On 2/15/2019 at 10:36 AM, Mimetic Polyalloy said:

Don´t want to bring new doubts but are you shure about that reference? I read in an other thread Z10's serial number N30TC1844T0001 contains the time of assembly: year=18, week = 44th for example.

y’all made me look.

mine says 1832 but the sticker on the box says 1808 below the sn, so maybe 8th month 2018 or 32nd week?

who knows, haven’t been riding but no issues with mine yet.

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On 2/16/2019 at 3:34 AM, Lukasz said:

o - keep the Chinese bearings far from water! 

Thats the point....and not only chinese bearing ...

getting ANY Euc dumped into water and you will have rust on bearings and motor inside.

For this 2nd or 3rd or whatever batch thing....

Jason had multiple deliverys of the z10...all having the same failure rate. And thats not only him reporting this problems.

Main point is the ugly support from 9b! if that could be even called service or support, it all would be no problem! 

So i absolutly dont think he is "painting something black"....when 9b gives him no chance at all to stay in positive numbers with the z10, he cant do anything else as getting away of selling this wheel!

ALL chinese EUC manufacturs are not easy to handle...but from personal conversation with Jason i know that 9b is the crownjuwel in ignoring the resellers :-)

board quality: no, the boards of our eucs are not handsoldered, quality of the board/ used parts is another question ;-)

..what is partly handsoldered are the specific battery packs, as these are no "standard" size and not available as "mass produced"

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21 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

battery pack where the cells are discharged below 2v per cell are, according to the cell manufacturers, beyond redemption. You might be able to boost them up to get it going again, but it's going to have an impact on the longevity of the pack. 

A battery pack which had dropped in voltage this far. (under 2 volt per cell)......i personally would not touch/use anymore!

Going over max or under minimum cell voltage destroys, hurts the cells Chemistry,something you can not see and also can not measure at the time! the cell after boosting it up MIGHT look perfect, but is a good chance that it fails directly when a bit higher amperage is drawn. Failing can mean totally collapse then. Thats why you never ever should deplete a cell to far.....its just a unknown risk then :-(

Just measuring the cell resistance can give a clue about it, then...but measuring this -correct- can only be done by highquality tools, the normal user doesnt have....

Thats why reputated cell manufacters like samsung, pansonic and lg are needed....as only they deliver continuos quality. nonetheless: Even their cells cant take such a beating. 

So in general.its no problem to "restart" a z10 or any battery...as the z10 firmware/bms prob allready starts at 3,2 volt or so...but it shoukd be checked how deep the cells actually really have been!!!

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On 2/15/2019 at 2:53 PM, Planemo said:

On a separate note, has anyone ever posted what the actual battery voltages are for DOA wheels where they won't take charge? I know that someone measured the voltage off the board (around 4.8v) but this isn't the true battery voltage AFAIK. It would be nice to know what the batteries are dropping too, so I can make an accurate guess as to whether the cells are what I deem to be 'permanently damaged'. This figure isn't rocket science, and I accept that damaged batteries will take a charge, but this doesn't mean they are not damaged. The repercussions of this will only likely rear their head in the longer term.

I measured something like 12V on the XT60 connector. Now, how many electronics there are between that connector and the actual battery cells, I don't know.

But if I understood it correctly, once the battery cells drop below 3.2, the BMS completely shuts it down? So it shouldn't be able to continue to deplete the battery then?

Edited by ir_fuel

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16 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

I measured something like 12V on the XT60 connector. Now, how many electronics there are between that connector and the actual battery cells, I don't know.

But if I understood it correctly, once the battery cells drop below 3.2, the BMS completely shuts it down? So it shouldn't be able to continue to deplete the battery then?

You are right...should!!!

and whats left measured than is just the resistance of what the shutting mosfet lets through....

So has not to say much when such a voltage like 12V is measured.

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