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Rentable escooters will be the Death of EUCs in Major cities of the World


Smoother

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34 minutes ago, Nic said:

Green policy will hopefully see that this doesn't happen. How much damage from Hurricanes can the US handle before realising that global warming is a real issue?

In many ways the US, due to its policies, is the bad guy of the world. That is, the US often runs counter to public safety, at both its own and the world's.

A logical government policy would limit its greenhouse emissions by contraining the number of roads and automobiles (especially large ones), encourage alternative transportation, and limit damages by not building on floodplanes.

Instead, larger vehicles get a government subsidy, and electrics are tariffed.

In the case of hurricane caused global warming, the US encourages both global warming by subsidizing vehicles/roads AND house construction.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Flood_Insurance_Program

The NFI is about 25 billion in debt.

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3 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Horses vastly outnumbered cars at one point and yet, here we are. :efef2e0fff:

Can you think of why cars dominated horses?

I mean, you seem pretty intelligent. Can you figure out why a disruptive tech is...disruptive?

Can you take it even further, and see why bicycles aren't a disruptive tech over cars?

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If you are referring escooter as the electric kickscooter then I hope they die, I will never rent any of them, they are dangerous as hell, and are dumped about everywhere. Would use the fatwheel scooter or the like, though....

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Public opinion is everything.

There's this company in San Diego called Scooter Removal making money (or trying to at least) by removing scooters from private property. They have a GoFundMe campaign setup because the 'evil' scooter rental companies don't want to pay their ransom, I mean, impound fees...

"Help us or we'll die." (Good riddens.)

 https://www.scootscoop.com/

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On 2/15/2019 at 8:24 PM, winterwheel said:

Horses vastly outnumbered cars at one point and yet, here we are. :efef2e0fff:

Speaking of this, if you think drivers are rude around cyclists or EUCs, I can tell you that it is far worse for horse/carriage users.  I'm sure some people will laugh at this comparison, but every group has their reasons for liking the transportation method they choose.

Misguided people exist in all walks of life.  This same thing happened with drones, whose sudden proliferation, irresponsible use, and "scary" possible future use cases caused the regulation of all R/C aircraft over a particular weight.

On 2/15/2019 at 8:26 PM, LanghamP said:

In many ways the US, due to its policies, is the bad guy of the world. That is, the US often runs counter to public safety, at both its own and the world's.

I think it's a bit exaggerated to say the US "often" runs counter to public safety.  Not to mention, there's a broad range of attitudes about what makes the public "safe."

I guess the brave new world of lightweight personal EVs will make sense in certain areas, but around the Plains and Great Lakes, there is simply not a viable personal EV solution that will go through a foot of snow and ice, and keep the occupant comfortable in subzero (-20c) weather, day or night.  I personally use the next-best option and use an electric car... but then get flak from people who gripe about the carbon footprint of the cost of engineering and manufacturing electric cars and batteries.  :rolleyes:

Every bit of information I have seen lately suggests that people are looking for more walkability and bikeability in their cities.  How many people will walk when it's below 0 is a matter of some debate.  So far, EUCs and e-bikes are fully permitted by my state, within motor output limits.  This seems reasonable to me.  Who knows if some new federal legislation will change this, but I expect not, unless the EU talks them into it.

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On 2/15/2019 at 7:05 PM, LanghamP said:

Once a bicycle lane has been put into a city, it only has a limited time before one of two things happen.

1. The bicycle lane is successful as many bicyclists use it, and is then accepted permanently by the local culture.

2. A popular revolt occurs by drivers, and then the bike lane is removed.

2018 saw the roll back of quite a number of bicycle lanes due to populist demand.

https://www.bicycling.com/culture/a23566413/los-angeles-is-the-worst-bike-city-in-america/

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/how-to-kill-a-bike-lane/559934/

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/south-carolina/articles/2018-07-15/south-carolina-city-to-remove-bike-lanes-on-busy-road

https://www.thestate.com/latest-news/article214892680.html

I would guess most bike lanes will be removed in the near future, simply due to the fact that drivers outnumber bicyclists by a 50 to 1 ratio, and see each bike lane as taking away from free flowing auto lanes.

South Carolina and South California are similar in that they are areas with deeply entrenched pro-car cultures. 

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20 hours ago, pst said:

I guess the brave new world of lightweight personal EVs will make sense in certain areas, but around the Plains and Great Lakes, there is simply not a viable personal EV solution that will go through a foot of snow and ice, and keep the occupant comfortable in subzero (-20c) weather, day or night.  

Clearly, you have not met our very own @winterwheel ;)

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3 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Clearly, you have not met our very own @winterwheel ;)

Haha, touche.

Actually I did find a few interesting posts while thinking earlier today that maybe I shouldn't give up so easily and I should look for good cold weather gear since I could see bits of pavement.  Sure enough, in the few hours since that thought, we got 4" of snow, on top of the existing patches of compacted snow and smooth ice.

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7 hours ago, pst said:

Haha, touche.

Actually I did find a few interesting posts while thinking earlier today that maybe I shouldn't give up so easily and I should look for good cold weather gear since I could see bits of pavement.  Sure enough, in the few hours since that thought, we got 4" of snow, on top of the existing patches of compacted snow and smooth ice.

Ice alone is tricky. Deep snow is a pain. A modest amount of snow over ice gives you all the traction you need and makes for easy riding.

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On 2/10/2019 at 2:17 PM, Smoother said:

"This is a translation of the proposed French law as it pertains to EUCs:

"Its use is prohibited on public roads (sidewalks and traffic lanes).

Moreover, any dangerous behavior deliberately putting the life of others in danger can be punished with 1 year of imprisonment and 15 000 € of fine.

Use is permitted on private roads (for example, private property road, driveway of a private residence)."

This may be the current law in the books, but it is not the state of affairs in reality in France. French police is not bothering any PEV rider in reality (possibly with rare exceptions). The law is also going to change, as far as I know. Then, we EUC riders may be kicked off the sidewalks for real, maybe.

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I was actually talking about those rentable e-scooters with friends the other day. I think the idea is good and well intentioned, but the execution is garrrbagggge.. Theyre all over the place. When i see videos of places they're allowed, i just see them in the background on the ground, all the time. Whos idea was this? At least with citi bikes they have a docking station. And if you dont dock them, they dock your pay. When i was out in japan, you could rent bikes, then you brought them back at the end of the day and caught your train out. Its way better to have somewhere to dock. Not just unlock it with an app then toss it on a dark sidewalk. And if you're SUPPOSED to dock them and people arent, they need to hit folks with a giant fee to force them to do it so they dont end up covering the cost of the unit. Its just a mess and its pissing people off.

Now as for where I am, luckily for me i live in the suburbs. The cities outside of toronto realllly dont give a shit what you do as long as you're safe. In my city i see an officer maybe once every 3 weeks, if im trying, and im out everyday. They're super nice and dont bother me. Im one of the only black people living here, lol... (Its that small) and i was wearing my leather bomber jacket, walking down a dark street at 4am and a cop cruises by. He had on a light in the car, just waved politely and continued driving. If you're not up to something, they're not bothering with you. My old city was bigger, but even out there, you had to be really dumb to get booked. Like, crossing a highway dumb. They really didnt care about little things. I remember getting a "warning" for jay walking once. Across a 6 lane, lol. Cop was like "ey...just use the lights up there, technically you can get tickets for this stuff, but we just dont want you to lose your life over shaving 2 minutes" I was like thanks officer. On my way. Even if the laws changed, i doubt the cops would enforce them, as people were doing all sorts of technically "illegal" stuff, and cops always saw it, lol. But each city and region has their own laws and can deal with things how they see fit. The biggest event here was like 12 angry people saying they dont want a starbucks here because it'll increase traffic. DRAMA! 

Now the thing that burns me about all of this really is just how regular folks, due to ignorance or lack of patience, road rage, pride, whatever, always fight against progress until its too late. You see it in all walks of life. The planet is quite literally preparing to murder us all, and these idiots are still imposing laws to get in the way of cleaner living. Still pushing foods and oils and energies that are destroying the planet. Is it just the money? Do they wanna make as much as possible before dying of old age earlier than the people we're leaving behind? I honestly cant stand it. You guys are a lot smarter than me when it comes to specific laws and regulations and stuff. I only really know what I see, but theres still quite a big kickback and stigmatisms surrounding clean anything. 

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12 hours ago, Mono said:

This may be the current law in the books, but it is not the state of affairs in reality in France. French police is not bothering any PEV rider in reality (possibly with rare exceptions). The law is also going to change, as far as I know. Then, we EUC riders may be kicked off the sidewalks for real, maybe.

@Mono

 imho, French riders will still get a pass. I was just in Paris for a group ride..No probs. Even while wheeling around solo on my euc, I was everywhere : streets, sidewalks, wrong ways, right ways: it didn't make the public 'or' Police bat an eye of disdain or contempt in the least. From what I've seen, and I hope I'm correct, all electric PEV's are becoming part of common culture there.  I truly hope this is, and stays true.

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@Coffee guy, I’m French and ride since a year and a half, about 5000 Km on bike-lanes, but also roads and sometime walkway. 

I’ve crossed numerous time the police, they never cared about me. The only time they actually stopped me was to ask me questions about EUC: is that difficult to learn? How does it works? As I thought I was gonna spend a bad time it was quite fun :)  

As long as you’re not deliberately putting people at risk and you have light if it’s dark, you’re free to ride as you want. 

This might evolve in the future months though, with a specific law. But well, there’s law, and there’s habits. The French police won’t break your 🏀 as long as you’re not doing anything dangerous / as long as you’re being polite, unless they receive very specific orders ...

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44 minutes ago, Coffee guy said:

@nrvfromcnr
 I see you are from Nantes. I think I've seen that there is a riding group there. Do you ride with them, alone, or elsewhere?

At some time there were the “Wheelers Store” in Nantes, that somehow federated the Nantes riders. The store closed some time after, I never really spent much time riding with them. Somehow I felt the group already had a dynamic I wasn’t on, difficult to explain.

I am from “La Chapelle sur Erdre”, a little town north from Nantes. I convinced my friend and neighbor to Kingsong, and we often ride at night once children and wives are asleep ;) Here to Nantes and back mainly, but north although. 

I also go to work in Nantes with my 18L :) 

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Here's a minor bicycle and road topic...funding...which shows both the difficulty in getting funding for "not a car" and losing that funding if you don't enough approved grants.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/02/21/states-may-forfeit-1-billion-in-biking-and-walking-funding/

The way Federal money earmarked for grants is typically people write grants, and if no one gets approved then you just roll the money into the next year until you do get approved. The money set aside keeps increasing each year; this is to encourage people to write bigger and better grants.

However, if you (the Feds) don't care about the grant, then typically you'll reject the grants coming in then send the earmarks back into general revenue. Since no money was distributed that year then next year nothing gets earmarked for that subject.

This shows the difficulty of using Federal money to improve bicycle and pedestrians projects even when that money is set aside. In a way, this is a "soft" pushback against bicycles, eScooters, and pedestrians by simply doing nothing; not only do present but future projects are killed even before starting.

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On 2/21/2019 at 8:40 PM, nrvfromcnr said:

This might evolve in the future months though, with a specific law. But well, there’s law, and there’s habits. The French police won’t break your 🏀 as long as you’re not doing anything dangerous / as long as you’re being polite, unless they receive very specific orders ...

I hope this is true. My son is currently living in Paris and with an 18L. He had issues with the authorities riding his wheel on his campus, but never in public spaces. 

As I understand it, Paris will be voting on whether to enforce a new Electric mobility device law in April. Up until now the cops have been nice and curious in Paris; as reported by many Parisians. However, if they get the order to kill things could be different, and people's "habits" might have to change. 

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7 hours ago, Lutalo said:

However, if they get the order to kill things could be different, and people's "habits" might have to change. 

That’s true, moreover for crowded areas like Paris at 8 on Monday morning near any Metro station... Things got to be clear for everyone, imagine 50 wheelers stepping out at the same bus stop...

Things remains simple when only a few users are there. Not necessarily true with a great number of them, more or less aware of the most simple security rules, at a time where everyone plays its life not to be late at work ... And I’m not talking about scooters ... 

I’m sure I couldn’t live in Paris :) 

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7 hours ago, Lutalo said:

He had issues with the authorities riding his wheel on his campus, but never in public spaces. 

I’m talking about my experience in Nantes, but things might be different in Paris. What append to your son there? Hope things are Ok for him ...

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7 hours ago, nrvfromcnr said:

I’m talking about my experience in Nantes, but things might be different in Paris. What append to your son there? Hope things are Ok for him ...

Thanks. Yeah,  he is cool. The authorities on his campus had an issue with him riding the wheel around campus, but he hasn't had any issues on public streets. 

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7 hours ago, nrvfromcnr said:

That’s true, moreover for crowded areas like Paris at 8 on Monday morning near any Metro station... Things got to be clear for everyone, imagine 50 wheelers stepping out at the same bus stop...

Things remains simple when only a few users are there. Not necessarily true with a great number of them, more or less aware of the most simple security rules, at a time where everyone plays its life not to be late at work ... And I’m not talking about scooters ... 

I’m sure I couldn’t live in Paris :) 

Hopefully, only regulations that are not particularly harmful to EUC riders in Paris come out of the vote. 

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Here in Gothenburg VOI has started scooter rentals. But they say (I believe it when I see it) that they will update their apps to warn people if they're parking their scooters in obviously idiotic places. To me that seems to be rather ambitious, you basically have to rely on the accuracy of the GPS and zone the map carefully. Well, all power to them if they manage it.

So far I've seen amazingly few idiotic parkings of their scooters, but I have also seen a lot of people wobbling about at 20-25kph without even a helmet on... I do hope there won't be any serious accidents happening.

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1 hour ago, Scatcat said:

Here in Gothenburg VOI has started scooter rentals. But they say (I believe it when I see it) that they will update their apps to warn people if they're parking their scooters in obviously idiotic places.

🤔🤔🤔🤔. I'd be very interested to see how that turns out. 

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