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travsformation

EUCs, cars and the novelty risk factor (aka are we our own worst enemy?)

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https://www.bicycling.com/news/a26815539/tate-meintjes-crash/

Cyclist was killed by a driver.

I don't like the wording of the title nor of the body, because drivers kill people, not self-driving Hondas.

19-Year-Old Racer Killed in Car-Bike Crash on Redlands Classic Pre-Ride

Before reading the article, I thought "where's the driver" because it's always a driver when a bicyclist is killed.

 

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9 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a26815539/tate-meintjes-crash/

Cyclist was killed by a driver.

I don't like the wording of the title nor of the body, because drivers kill people, not self-driving Hondas.

19-Year-Old Racer Killed in Car-Bike Crash on Redlands Classic Pre-Ride

Before reading the article, I thought "where's the driver" because it's always a driver when a bicyclist is killed.

 

That's too bad.  So young.

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The major reason I don't think sidewalks are safe is because the person using the sidewalk needs training in order to ascertain the correct times they are safe to use in accordance to arbitrary signal lights. In contrast, you know a drawbridge is entirely safe to use in its down position while being unusable in its up position.

https://www.pressherald.com/2019/05/01/first-grader-killed-by-school-bus-in-rumford/

In this case, a kid was riding his bike on the sidewalk when the sidewalk then turned into a shared sidewalk/street (a crosswalk), and he was then run over by a left-turning driver. The street/sidewalk is often confusing because it has these strips across it that make you think you can safely go over it, but in reality they are sometimes safe and sometimes deadly.

Do kids in the USA actually have formalized training in how to read intersectional crossings and how to cross streets? Or do we leave such training to parents? Do drivers have specific training to yield to crosswalkers? If a driver is in a small car with great visibility, then does that mean a driver in a huge truck/SUV has less obligation because his ability to see around him is less?

One has the logical idea that buying a big vehicle with gunslits as windows would then give one the least amount of legal obligation to yield to anyone. Especially if you had eight children and used it as a work truck; that'd absolve you of any legal or moral obligation to be kind to others.

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Autonomous car that was speeding hits eScooter rider crossing street; rider then blames the eScooter.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2019/06/worldwide-electric-scooter-boom-leads-to-more-serious-injuries-and-fatalities.html?outputType=amp

Andrew Hardy was crossing the street on an electric scooter in downtown Los Angeles when a car struck him at 50 miles per hour and flung him 15 feet in the air before he smacked his head on the pavement and fell unconscious.

The 26-year-old snapped two bones in each leg, broke a thighbone, shattered a kneecap, punctured a lung and fractured three vertebrae in his neck, in addition to sustaining a head injury.

 

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23 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Autonomous car that was speeding hits eScooter rider crossing street; rider then blames the eScooter.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2019/06/worldwide-electric-scooter-boom-leads-to-more-serious-injuries-and-fatalities.html?outputType=amp

Andrew Hardy was crossing the street on an electric scooter in downtown Los Angeles when a car struck him at 50 miles per hour and flung him 15 feet in the air before he smacked his head on the pavement and fell unconscious.

The 26-year-old snapped two bones in each leg, broke a thighbone, shattered a kneecap, punctured a lung and fractured three vertebrae in his neck, in addition to sustaining a head injury.

 

Don't know where you got the autonomous car info?  

I watch people being seriously stupid on scooters everyday and shocked that there aren't more injuries.  

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2 hours ago, Dzlchef said:

Don't know where you got the autonomous car info?

The article clearly stated that a car struck him at 50 mph. It didn't say a driver, it said a car hit him.

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7 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

The article clearly stated that a car struck him at 50 mph. It didn't say a driver, it said a car hit him.

Uh, yeah, that's what they always say when a car hits a pedestrian.  They WILL note if the car was operating autonomously. 

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36 minutes ago, Dzlchef said:

Uh, yeah, that's what they always say when a car hits a pedestrian.  They WILL note if the car was operating autonomously. 

Are you sure? I mean, when a gun kills a person then they usually say a person shot another person.

These two sentences are equivalent:

1. The car killed the person.

2. The gun killed the person.

I can only conclude that since cars don't usually drive down a street by themselves, then it must have been an Autonomous Vehicle.

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1 hour ago, Dzlchef said:

Uh, yeah, that's what they always say when a car hits a pedestrian.  They WILL note if the car was operating autonomously. 

 

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

Are you sure? I mean, when a gun kills a person then they usually say a person shot another person.

These two sentences are equivalent:

1. The car killed the person.

2. The gun killed the person.

I can only conclude that since cars don't usually drive down a street by themselves, then it must have been an Autonomous Vehicle.

They definitely would!

Don't you remember this one?
Autonomous car killing a woman in Arizona

 

Sometimes I wonder if you're serious or not..

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7 hours ago, Olav said:

 

They definitely would!

Don't you remember this one?
Autonomous car killing a woman in Arizona

 

Sometimes I wonder if you're serious or not..

Fox News, in the other hand, states that drivers and not cars/trucks kill people.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-drunk-driver-amish-buggy-children-dead

Two children were killed and two others critically injured when an allegedly intoxicated driver crashed into an Amish horse-drawn buggy in southern Michigan, police said.

To be fair, everytime a shooter killed a person we could more accurately say it was the gun that killed a person. For instance, instead of saying, "Paris shooters kill 127" we could instead say "AK47's kill 127".

However, if a car really did drive itself into a person and killed him, then we could accurately say "the car killed him." Since most news agencies clearly state it was a car/truck that killed x, then we can safely assume an Autonomous Vehicle killed x.

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On 6/9/2019 at 6:29 AM, LanghamP said:

Fox News, in the other hand, states that drivers and not cars/trucks kill people.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-drunk-driver-amish-buggy-children-dead

Two children were killed and two others critically injured when an allegedly intoxicated driver crashed into an Amish horse-drawn buggy in southern Michigan, police said.

To be fair, everytime a shooter killed a person we could more accurately say it was the gun that killed a person. For instance, instead of saying, "Paris shooters kill 127" we could instead say "AK47's kill 127".

However, if a car really did drive itself into a person and killed him, then we could accurately say "the car killed him." Since most news agencies clearly state it was a car/truck that killed x, then we can safely assume an Autonomous Vehicle killed x.

You make an interesting point on language usage. In journalism, the choice of words is seldom objective. Sometimes it's determined by what most accurately describes the situation, sometimes to highlight a certain fact; and sadly, often with sensationalist, click-bait purposes. 

Man hit by car aims to stress that a (vulnerable, flesh-and-bones) person was hit bar a very heavy metal box, just like Child run over by school bus is intended to stress size/vulnerability and the gravity of the situation. In Pedestrian hit by drunk driver (like in your example above) the cause of the accident is very clear, and is thus pointed out in the headline. In the case of Pedestrian killed by self-driving car, the choice of words is also fairly obvious. In other instances, a headline such as Pedestrian hit by car can denote that the circumstances of the accident are unclear and it's uncertain whether the driver was at fault. Or it could simply be a hurried journalist giving little thought to the headline. :efee612b4b:

Which category /categories each of these examples fit into (descriptive, highlighting, sensationalist, click-bait, etc) could be debated 'til doomsday, as there are tons of different factors at play, including cultural and societal nuances, background, upbringing, etc., of both the journalist and the beholder (sports-car enthusiast journalist vs anti-car, pro-PEV headline critic). 

In an ideal world, headlines would read Pedestrian killed by the inattentive driver of a 2-ton SUV, but in our car-centric culture(s), I doubt that would sell/go down well. 

As someone who's been riding an EUC for less than a year, but driving for over a decade, I'm somewhat on the fence here. On one hand, I feel the stress should be on the driver, as carelessness, inattention and idiotic behaviour (speeding, texting, road rage, etc.) are at the heart of nearly all accidents. On the other hand, the more I ride in urban areas, the more aware I become that, no matter how irresponsible drivers may be, the real threat is the big metal box they're in: stick those same inattentive/reckless morons on a Ninebot mini and they no longer pose such an enormous risk to everyone around them. 

I have to give it to you, @LanghamP, although your comments often range from bold/provocative/controversial to cryptic (Guess-the-tone/intention), both of those approaches are very effective at catching people's attention and making us think. 

You've definitely given me pause a number of times, and I reckon you're possibly the main culprit (followed by @Smoother) of my changing attitude towards cars, which is shifting by the day from taking them for granted to becoming increasingly wary of them, and not only as a rider and a pedestrian; I'm also developing a newfound sense of awareness/guilt (environmentally and in terms of the threat I pose to others) and uneasiness when I'm behind the wheel: did I absolutely have to drive? Was there no way of getting there by EUC/public transportation? Am I positive there was no way of hauling this 40 lb load with my 18XL? :efee612b4b:

But seriously... 

giphy.gif&ehk=LXtcMLsIFeU8ogfpam0ASw

Edited by travsformation
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19 minutes ago, travsformation said:

You've definitely given me pause a number of times, and I reckon you're possibly the main culprit (followed by @Smoother) of my changing attitude towards cars

Is that stationary cars, autonomous cars, or cars driven by meat sacks?;)

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4 hours ago, Smoother said:

Is that stationary cars, autonomous cars, or cars driven by meat sacks?;)

Depends on who I'm selling the story to :ph34r: :efee612b4b:

Edited by travsformation
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