Jump to content

EUCs, cars and the novelty risk factor (aka are we our own worst enemy?)


Recommended Posts

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a26815539/tate-meintjes-crash/

Cyclist was killed by a driver.

I don't like the wording of the title nor of the body, because drivers kill people, not self-driving Hondas.

19-Year-Old Racer Killed in Car-Bike Crash on Redlands Classic Pre-Ride

Before reading the article, I thought "where's the driver" because it's always a driver when a bicyclist is killed.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a26815539/tate-meintjes-crash/

Cyclist was killed by a driver.

I don't like the wording of the title nor of the body, because drivers kill people, not self-driving Hondas.

19-Year-Old Racer Killed in Car-Bike Crash on Redlands Classic Pre-Ride

Before reading the article, I thought "where's the driver" because it's always a driver when a bicyclist is killed.

 

That's too bad.  So young.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

The major reason I don't think sidewalks are safe is because the person using the sidewalk needs training in order to ascertain the correct times they are safe to use in accordance to arbitrary signal lights. In contrast, you know a drawbridge is entirely safe to use in its down position while being unusable in its up position.

https://www.pressherald.com/2019/05/01/first-grader-killed-by-school-bus-in-rumford/

In this case, a kid was riding his bike on the sidewalk when the sidewalk then turned into a shared sidewalk/street (a crosswalk), and he was then run over by a left-turning driver. The street/sidewalk is often confusing because it has these strips across it that make you think you can safely go over it, but in reality they are sometimes safe and sometimes deadly.

Do kids in the USA actually have formalized training in how to read intersectional crossings and how to cross streets? Or do we leave such training to parents? Do drivers have specific training to yield to crosswalkers? If a driver is in a small car with great visibility, then does that mean a driver in a huge truck/SUV has less obligation because his ability to see around him is less?

One has the logical idea that buying a big vehicle with gunslits as windows would then give one the least amount of legal obligation to yield to anyone. Especially if you had eight children and used it as a work truck; that'd absolve you of any legal or moral obligation to be kind to others.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Autonomous car that was speeding hits eScooter rider crossing street; rider then blames the eScooter.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2019/06/worldwide-electric-scooter-boom-leads-to-more-serious-injuries-and-fatalities.html?outputType=amp

Andrew Hardy was crossing the street on an electric scooter in downtown Los Angeles when a car struck him at 50 miles per hour and flung him 15 feet in the air before he smacked his head on the pavement and fell unconscious.

The 26-year-old snapped two bones in each leg, broke a thighbone, shattered a kneecap, punctured a lung and fractured three vertebrae in his neck, in addition to sustaining a head injury.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Autonomous car that was speeding hits eScooter rider crossing street; rider then blames the eScooter.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2019/06/worldwide-electric-scooter-boom-leads-to-more-serious-injuries-and-fatalities.html?outputType=amp

Andrew Hardy was crossing the street on an electric scooter in downtown Los Angeles when a car struck him at 50 miles per hour and flung him 15 feet in the air before he smacked his head on the pavement and fell unconscious.

The 26-year-old snapped two bones in each leg, broke a thighbone, shattered a kneecap, punctured a lung and fractured three vertebrae in his neck, in addition to sustaining a head injury.

 

Don't know where you got the autonomous car info?  

I watch people being seriously stupid on scooters everyday and shocked that there aren't more injuries.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dzlchef said:

Don't know where you got the autonomous car info?

The article clearly stated that a car struck him at 50 mph. It didn't say a driver, it said a car hit him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

The article clearly stated that a car struck him at 50 mph. It didn't say a driver, it said a car hit him.

Uh, yeah, that's what they always say when a car hits a pedestrian.  They WILL note if the car was operating autonomously. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Dzlchef said:

Uh, yeah, that's what they always say when a car hits a pedestrian.  They WILL note if the car was operating autonomously. 

Are you sure? I mean, when a gun kills a person then they usually say a person shot another person.

These two sentences are equivalent:

1. The car killed the person.

2. The gun killed the person.

I can only conclude that since cars don't usually drive down a street by themselves, then it must have been an Autonomous Vehicle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dzlchef said:

Uh, yeah, that's what they always say when a car hits a pedestrian.  They WILL note if the car was operating autonomously. 

 

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

Are you sure? I mean, when a gun kills a person then they usually say a person shot another person.

These two sentences are equivalent:

1. The car killed the person.

2. The gun killed the person.

I can only conclude that since cars don't usually drive down a street by themselves, then it must have been an Autonomous Vehicle.

They definitely would!

Don't you remember this one?
Autonomous car killing a woman in Arizona

 

Sometimes I wonder if you're serious or not..

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Olav said:

 

They definitely would!

Don't you remember this one?
Autonomous car killing a woman in Arizona

 

Sometimes I wonder if you're serious or not..

Fox News, in the other hand, states that drivers and not cars/trucks kill people.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-drunk-driver-amish-buggy-children-dead

Two children were killed and two others critically injured when an allegedly intoxicated driver crashed into an Amish horse-drawn buggy in southern Michigan, police said.

To be fair, everytime a shooter killed a person we could more accurately say it was the gun that killed a person. For instance, instead of saying, "Paris shooters kill 127" we could instead say "AK47's kill 127".

However, if a car really did drive itself into a person and killed him, then we could accurately say "the car killed him." Since most news agencies clearly state it was a car/truck that killed x, then we can safely assume an Autonomous Vehicle killed x.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/9/2019 at 6:29 AM, LanghamP said:

Fox News, in the other hand, states that drivers and not cars/trucks kill people.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-drunk-driver-amish-buggy-children-dead

Two children were killed and two others critically injured when an allegedly intoxicated driver crashed into an Amish horse-drawn buggy in southern Michigan, police said.

To be fair, everytime a shooter killed a person we could more accurately say it was the gun that killed a person. For instance, instead of saying, "Paris shooters kill 127" we could instead say "AK47's kill 127".

However, if a car really did drive itself into a person and killed him, then we could accurately say "the car killed him." Since most news agencies clearly state it was a car/truck that killed x, then we can safely assume an Autonomous Vehicle killed x.

You make an interesting point on language usage. In journalism, the choice of words is seldom objective. Sometimes it's determined by what most accurately describes the situation, sometimes to highlight a certain fact; and sadly, often with sensationalist, click-bait purposes. 

Man hit by car aims to stress that a (vulnerable, flesh-and-bones) person was hit bar a very heavy metal box, just like Child run over by school bus is intended to stress size/vulnerability and the gravity of the situation. In Pedestrian hit by drunk driver (like in your example above) the cause of the accident is very clear, and is thus pointed out in the headline. In the case of Pedestrian killed by self-driving car, the choice of words is also fairly obvious. In other instances, a headline such as Pedestrian hit by car can denote that the circumstances of the accident are unclear and it's uncertain whether the driver was at fault. Or it could simply be a hurried journalist giving little thought to the headline. :efee612b4b:

Which category /categories each of these examples fit into (descriptive, highlighting, sensationalist, click-bait, etc) could be debated 'til doomsday, as there are tons of different factors at play, including cultural and societal nuances, background, upbringing, etc., of both the journalist and the beholder (sports-car enthusiast journalist vs anti-car, pro-PEV headline critic). 

In an ideal world, headlines would read Pedestrian killed by the inattentive driver of a 2-ton SUV, but in our car-centric culture(s), I doubt that would sell/go down well. 

As someone who's been riding an EUC for less than a year, but driving for over a decade, I'm somewhat on the fence here. On one hand, I feel the stress should be on the driver, as carelessness, inattention and idiotic behaviour (speeding, texting, road rage, etc.) are at the heart of nearly all accidents. On the other hand, the more I ride in urban areas, the more aware I become that, no matter how irresponsible drivers may be, the real threat is the big metal box they're in: stick those same inattentive/reckless morons on a Ninebot mini and they no longer pose such an enormous risk to everyone around them. 

I have to give it to you, @LanghamP, although your comments often range from bold/provocative/controversial to cryptic (Guess-the-tone/intention), both of those approaches are very effective at catching people's attention and making us think. 

You've definitely given me pause a number of times, and I reckon you're possibly the main culprit (followed by @Smoother) of my changing attitude towards cars, which is shifting by the day from taking them for granted to becoming increasingly wary of them, and not only as a rider and a pedestrian; I'm also developing a newfound sense of awareness/guilt (environmentally and in terms of the threat I pose to others) and uneasiness when I'm behind the wheel: did I absolutely have to drive? Was there no way of getting there by EUC/public transportation? Am I positive there was no way of hauling this 40 lb load with my 18XL? :efee612b4b:

But seriously... 

giphy.gif&ehk=LXtcMLsIFeU8ogfpam0ASw

Edited by travsformation
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, travsformation said:

You've definitely given me pause a number of times, and I reckon you're possibly the main culprit (followed by @Smoother) of my changing attitude towards cars

Is that stationary cars, autonomous cars, or cars driven by meat sacks?;)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Smoother said:

Is that stationary cars, autonomous cars, or cars driven by meat sacks?;)

Depends on who I'm selling the story to :ph34r: :efee612b4b:

Edited by travsformation
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

 

Self-driving pickup kills Pernell sweet pea Whitaker.

Another one of those pesky cars kills another person in the crosswalk. They really gotta do something about AI recognition.

Interestingly enough, the son of the killed pedestrian blames his father for wearing dark clothing, and no charges were filed against the owner of the car for killing someone in the crosswalk, despite him doing something illegal while the pedestrian was not.

Devon Whitaker, his youngest son, told the Virginian-Pilot that visibility may have been an issue.

“I guess he was wearing dark clothes, the road was dark and the driver didn’t see him,” he said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

 

Self-driving pickup kills Pernell sweet pea Whitaker.

Another one of those pesky cars kills another person in the crosswalk. They really gotta do something about AI recognition.

Interestingly enough, the son of the killed pedestrian blames his father for wearing dark clothing, and no charges were filed against the owner of the car for killing someone in the crosswalk, despite him doing something illegal while the pedestrian was not.

Devon Whitaker, his youngest son, told the Virginian-Pilot that visibility may have been an issue.

“I guess he was wearing dark clothes, the road was dark and the driver didn’t see him,” he said.

Where does it say anything about it being self-driving?  I looked at both those articles and neither made mention of that fact - were they edited or did that info come from elsewhere?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, BarrettJ said:

Where does it say anything about it being self-driving?  I looked at both those articles and neither made mention of that fact - were they edited or did that info come from elsewhere?

Every single article states "car/truck/vehicle struck Whitaker".

Since these two sentences are functionally equivalent...

"Gun kills man."

"Car kills man."

...then I can only conclude he was killed by a self-driving car. In none of the articles I read did it say "driver struck Whitaker".

Since I trust these journalist as competent, I can only conclude the vehicle was self-driving. After all, when a person shoots another person we don't say "ak47 kills person."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I had my first car incident, last night going home from work....11:10 pm and the car t-bones me as he made a left hand turn (WITH NO SIGNAL) I had no chance to even respond to his actions, hits me on the left side (felt more like a low tackle) I go flying over hood and head (yes I wear full face shiny orange chrome helmet) hits pavement first, then shoulder then hips, with two small road rash on arm and leg... Didn't move and could not stand hips hurt like hell...to broken bones but all my right side is aching with pain....some how my 18xl was not harmed but was dragged underneath the car....after two hours at hospital ride euc home....very slowly...

I need to get picture of my getup.....yellow vests, all my blinking leds, headband light, extra reflective parts, a reflective driveway marker, and I keep 18xl flashing headlights on, and it's flashing side LEDs....and yet the fucking fool said he say 'something' before hitting me!!!

Edited by MetricUSA
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/2/2019 at 11:54 PM, MetricUSA said:

I had my first car incident, last night going home from work....11:10 pm and the car t-bones me as he made a left hand turn (WITH NO SIGNAL) I had no chance to even respond to his actions, hits me on the left side (felt more like a low tackle) I go flying over hood and head (yes I wear full face shiny orange chrome helmet) hits pavement first, then shoulder then hips, with two small road rash on arm and leg... Didn't move and could not stand hips hurt like hell...to broken bones but all my right side is aching with pain....some how my 18xl was not harmed but was dragged underneath the car....after two hours at hospital ride euc home....very slowly...

I need to get picture of my getup.....yellow vests, all my blinking leds, headband light, extra reflective parts, a reflective driveway marker, and I keep 18xl flashing headlights on, and it's flashing side LEDs....and yet the fucking fool said he say 'something' before hitting me!!!

I think this is a good outcome, or the best expected outcome of a bad situation.

Consider:

1. The driver had a low-slung car instead of a moving wall, as one would see with a light truck or SUV. Such vehicles are three times more fatal!

2. The helmet might have helped on the second bounce, although as you've experienced firsthand helmet don't do anything to protect the body.

As a side note, why didn't the driver see you? You were probably occluded by the A pillars of his car, that is, for most drivers anything around that area is ignored, like the way your nose is ignored by your mind since the nose is always there.

You were on the pedestrian crosswalks? Unfortunately the US laws are specifically set up so at no time does a pedestrian have the crosswalk entirely to oneself. That is, at all times a driver may legally enter the pedestrian crosswalk. This has the effect of pedestrians always having to dodge drivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, MetricUSA said:

What the fuck are you talking about??? Did you not read the last paragraph I wrote??!

It's your own damned fault. You need to stop being so inconspicuous, or else drivers will keep running you over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, MetricUSA said:

You are a moron you have no right even to comment!!! How rude and who the fuck are you and what gives you the fucking right???

You aren't looking at why you were hit logically, because if you were wearing all that crap and you were still hit by someone who didn't purposefully hit you, it then follows he didn't see you.

Again, being hit sucks, but you're not wondering why you were hit, are you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...