szaroczek Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 Hi, guys, happy to get touch with you again. Right now I'm trying to determine the realistic and safe limits of maximum charging efficiency for my MSX. So, in terms of current intensity capability I believe I would need to consider few factors: 1. Total battery capacity. Since my wheel features two original 800Wh (+/- 10Ah) battery packages as well as one additional custom-made 800Wh package, identical with the original ones (s20p3, Sanyo NCR18650GA 3500mAh cells, controlled by the third original MSX bms), my total battery capacity is now 2400Wh (+/- 30Ah). According to the gold, generally acknowledged among professional 18650 cells battery package builders rule, a particular package can, with unquestionable safety of its integrity and longevity and without any risk of generating excessive heat, be charged with the current equal to half of its capacity. So, in my case it could go up to 15A, which is obviously half of 30Ah. Therefore below I put to the analysis the rest of the components to figure out if they might sustain this load of 15A charging current: 2. MSX bms. This is a big question how much current can a single MSX bms take on itself? To get a total of 15A charging current on my particular wheel one single bms would need to take 5A (remember, there are three of them all together in my car operating with the three separate battery packages). I already got few clues suggesting the MSX single bms should be able to easily take as much as 5A of current and most likely even much more. I contacted "Kebye" on it, yet did not receive any ultimate answer so far. (I've learnt they just celebrate Chinese New Year right about now, so communication is kind of slow... ) Now, I wonder if maybe any of you might posses knowledge and experience advanced enough so to specifically determine the current intensity limit for a single MSX bms and confirm if 5A would be OK with any of the three of them my MSX features? 3. Charging cables. I've got them already replaced into a very thick AVG14 cables. 4. Charging sockets/plugs. Those installed in both MSX as well as in its original factory charger can probably take much more than 15A. Is it right? 5. The "Charge Doctor". It is of course an optional component here, however, since I used to use it in the charging process of my MSX I would also need to know what is its capacity in terms of taking on 15A current. This "Charge Doctor", as you surely know, comprises of the very device itself, two short stretches of cable (one black and one red) and the socket and the plug, which are consistent with this one installed in the MSX itself. So, the socket and the plug should be good with 15A. How about the cables which don't look particularly thick to me and then the device itself? I contacted the manufacturer of the "Charge Doctor" on this issue as well, yet did not receive any feedback so far. (Maybe, if the guy if a Chinaman, too, also he celebrates the Chinese New Year now...? ) Any thought of yours on this topic, please? Or have I possibly forgotten to take something else under consideration? Regards
Chriull Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, szaroczek said: According to the gold, generally acknowledged among professional 18650 cells battery package builders rule, ... be charged with the current equal to half of its capacity. Or one takes a look at the datasheet ang gets 1475 mA as recommended charging current for this cell. 15 minutes ago, szaroczek said: Those installed in both MSX as well as in its original factory charger can probably take much more than 15A. Is it right? The plugs used at the "older" gw and ks wheels could only take 5A. No idea what plug comes with the msx? 16 minutes ago, szaroczek said: The "Charge Doctor takes max 10A. (I don't put a link here since chrome said it's a malicious site!? @hobby16 got some "web site virus"? Or just some overly sensible web site scanner?) Another ?problem?, not mentioned in your list is, that no one can guarantee that the 15A divide equaly between the three boards!
Hansolo Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 For the GW BMS, I think 5A is OK, Already heard several wheelers charging at 10a (in 1600 Wh version) Charging socket plug, 5-6 A max... You must do as for the KS 18L put 2 connectors. Charge Doctor, the max is 10A
szaroczek Posted February 4, 2019 Author Posted February 4, 2019 To begin with thank you for your suggestions. And then: 1 hour ago, Hansolo said: Charging socket plug, 5-6 A max... You must do as for the KS 18L put 2 connectors. What exactly do you mean by "You must put 2 connectors"? 1 hour ago, Hansolo said: Charge Doctor, the max is 10A Do you think it is because of the very device itself or because of its rigging (cables, connectors)?
Hansolo Posted February 4, 2019 Posted February 4, 2019 http://hobby16.neowp.fr/fr/ Caractéristiques de Charge Doctor V2 Tension : 20.0V – 100.0 V Intensité : 0.00 – 10.00 A Capacité : 0.000-1000 Ah avec décimale automatique Energie : 0.0-10000 Wh avec décimale automatique Coupure automatique par seuil de courant (0.1-8.0 A) ou seuil de tension (30.0-85.0V) Sortie enregistreur liaison série 9600 bauds TTL Dimensions : 85x50x20 mm Poids : 65 g
szaroczek Posted February 5, 2019 Author Posted February 5, 2019 Hansolo, may I ask you to be more specific and explain what exactly did you mean when advising I needed to "put 2 connectors", please? I think the socket limitation would be the last obstacle for me to overcome to be able to apply bigger charging current to my wheel...
Mike Sacristan Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, szaroczek said: Hansolo, may I ask you to be more specific and explain what exactly did you mean when advising I needed to "put 2 connectors", please? I think the socket limitation would be the last obstacle for me to overcome to be able to apply bigger charging current to my wheel... 23 hours ago, Hansolo said: For the GW BMS, I think 5A is OK, Already heard several wheelers charging at 10a (in 1600 Wh version) Charging socket plug, 5-6 A max... You must do as for the KS 18L put 2 connectors. Charge Doctor, the max is 10A We believe the connectors aka charging ports to be limited to 5A. This is why the recommendation is to install an additional charging port. The KS18L given as an example of a EUC with 2 charging ports. I believe the Monster has 2 ports as well and Speedyfeet installed a third on his. It is not just the battery that is the limitation but the wiring and the ports. 15A is unknown territory. 10A is reasonable with an extra charging port.
szaroczek Posted February 5, 2019 Author Posted February 5, 2019 Do I then get it right that those who charge their wheels with 10A use two separate 5A-chargers connected to two separate sockets which wires are connected parallel with each other?
Mike Sacristan Posted February 5, 2019 Posted February 5, 2019 I think focus should be placed on the charge port having a suspected limit of 5A. Perhaps you should look through this thread.
szaroczek Posted February 6, 2019 Author Posted February 6, 2019 1. Guys, I happened to encounter some inconsistency in the data I received in the posts above: Few of you declare the charging port/socket in MSX can only take something about 5A of current intensity. But then the manufacturer of the "Charge Doctor" declares his device is prepared to work with 10A current having on the output only one plug which is consistent with the MSX charging socket. So, what do you think, which of the two is true: Is it that the MSX charging connector can in fact safely take as much as 10A on itself, or maybe the "Charge Doctor" manufacturer miscalculated the capability of his controller which outlet plug might simply get burnt when carrying 10A current? Fankly, don't see any other option... 2. Is there any adequately stronger in terms of current intensity capability equivalent of MSX original charging socket know to exist which would easily take 10A, or the best 15A, current and which would be reasonably simple to be installed in a place the original MSX charging socket is? I was looking for such a socket intensively and found only much larger and very inconvenient ones to be installed on MSX...
szaroczek Posted February 7, 2019 Author Posted February 7, 2019 What do you think about it: https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/WP20-Industrial-connector-2-pin-electrical-equipment-power-panel-mount-connector-rated-current-25A-Electric-Power/32595789067.html
szaroczek Posted February 7, 2019 Author Posted February 7, 2019 If you look carefully you'll see there are three tiny appendages (???) which make wrong connection impossible, I think.
szaroczek Posted February 19, 2019 Author Posted February 19, 2019 Is it OK to connect three chargers, one - MSX original, and two original Gotway 2,8A as in the link below, to one Charge Doctor with three input sockets? What I mean is if any of you have some long lasting practical experience with connecting two or three chargers in parallel that way? The Charge Doctor producer obviously thinks it is OK, since he is building such devices with two, or even three input sockets but even he is somewhere stipulating he cannot guarantee in some cases this might not work correctly. Are there any bad experiences or reservations against using such a construction? https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/Oryginalny-GotWay-84-v-szybka-adowarka-84-v-2-8A-240-w-adowarka-pasuje-do-GotWay/32932206741.html
mrelwood Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 I have burned two regular chargers when using them with a two input Charge Doctor. However the CD manufacturer explained how this can not be because of using them in parallel, as the chargers must be prepared to have the output voltage of a fully charged battery (= another charger) at their outputs. I think the three chargers you mention would be ok.
szaroczek Posted March 10, 2019 Author Posted March 10, 2019 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: However the CD manufacturer explained how this can not be because of using them in parallel, as the chargers must be prepared to have the output voltage of a fully charged battery (= another charger) at their outputs. @mrelwood, thank you for this feedback, however I wish I understood the sens of this description... Could you possibly make it some more clear what you meant by the above so I don't make the same mistake, please?
mrelwood Posted March 10, 2019 Posted March 10, 2019 30 minutes ago, szaroczek said: @mrelwood, thank you for this feedback, however I wish I understood the sens of this description... Could you possibly make it some more clear what you meant by the above so I don't make the same mistake, please? It is okay to use three chargers at the same time with Charge Doctor. My chargers broke because they were cheap chargers, not because Charge Doctor.
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