Will the EUC be the Transporation Revolution that the Segway fail to achieve?

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, Nic said:

That Segway was behaving exactly as designed ... after running one wheel up the barrier, the cameraman tried to hold his balance by putting his weight onto his right foot and towards the front of the tilted Segway, which then accelerated. This is how its meant to work. I suppose its possible to train yourself to better deal with these types of situations when they happen rather than reacting instinctively and causing your Segway to accelerate. The cameraman wasn't exactly looking where he was going.

That’s fine and all that the Segway was working, but the point we’re making is that this “behavior” is unnatural and highly dangerous. You can’t out train instinct, and instinct is going to tell you to do everything the cameraman did and on a Segway it will spell disaster. Once you lose your balance you only have milliseconds to rebalance. Your brain is not going to work that fast so instinct will take over. What you would naturally do to regain balance is what doesn’t work on a Segway which is a huge flaw in terms of ergonomic performance and dangerous when the machine doesn’t work with the human. 

[Nic]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

That’s fine and all that the Segway was working, but the point we’re making is that this “behavior” is unnatural and highly dangerous. You can’t out train instinct, and instinct is going to tell you to do everything the cameraman did and on a Segway it will spell disaster. Once you lose your balance you only have milliseconds to rebalance. Your brain is not going to work that fast so instinct will take over. What you would naturally do to regain balance is what doesn’t work on a Segway which is a huge flaw in terms of ergonomic performance and dangerous when the machine doesn’t work with the human. 

Yes, but the cameraman wasn't looking where he was going and so was unprepared to deal with the situation.

[Darrell Wesh]

21 minutes ago, Nic said:

Yes, but the cameraman wasn't looking where he was going and so was unprepared to deal with the situation.

He was looking through the camera and at where he was going. Have you ridden a Segway before? Even if he had been looking with his own eyes and not fiddling with a camera he would still have likely clipped the support bits sticking out from the rail. 

That problem is because the wheels are to the outside of your feet so you have very little spatial awareness of if you’re going to hit something in close situations. Combine that with extreme steering sensitivity, the knee bar steering is far too sensitive and even the slightest nudge in one direction can have you doing a 90 degree turn. 

[Nic]

11 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

He was looking through the camera and at where he was going.

Multi-tasking ... only women are good at that.

[IRK]

I have a miniPro that I no longer ride..... won’t do it again now that I am on an EUC.  Everything seems backwards on that device now.

[Darrell Wesh]

2 minutes ago, IRK said:

I have a miniPro that I no longer ride..... won’t do it again now that I am on an EUC.  Everything seems backwards on that device now.

Haha that’s how I felt- complete opposite brain movement patterns. don’t just toss it! Buy the handlebar and you can ride it without being confused or have someone ride that while you ride the EUC

[pst]

On 2/13/2019 at 6:11 PM, Hsiang said:

I think the fact that the segway is "easy to learn" is actually a strike against it since anything that is "beginner friendly"; like a bicycle with training wheel also implies that it is juvenile. Which its speed limit also reinforces, I still ride the i5 and that 12.5mph limit is a real drag, you're slower than regular commuter bike speed and will be blocking everyone in the bike lane, and riding around on sidewalk at walking speed just seem completely redundant.

The fact that juvenile items should be beginner-friendly does not mean everything beginner-friendly is juvenile.

A better analogy would be comparing a 2-wheeled motorcycle to the 3-wheeled Can-Am Spyder.  The fact the latter is wider and inherently more stable doesn't make it juvenile, it's just a different take on a related product.  Some people like one, some like the other.  There are tradeoffs to each.

If you guys have Segway minis gathering dust in a closet because you hate them so much, I'm open to donations so I can witness their terribleness firsthand!  My earlier comparison was (I think?) to the original Segway units that had the handlebars.  That doesn't mean accidents can't happen, but it seems like it would inspire more confidence to have a giant lever you're holding onto at all times, since you can more easily overcome the torque from road imperfections, etc.

[Larryyla]

EUC's have the advantage over Segways because they can be tossed into small cars very easily. I take mine everywhere and use it everywhere. I bought it for fun but have been surprised that I use it more for practical reasons. The 80 pound, bulky and awkward Segway is just too much hassle to load and unload everyday, so they are usually only used locally.

As far as level of difficulty, it has been my experience that they are as easy to ride as a bicycle. All one really need to do is learn to do with their legs what they do with their arms on a bike. I bought an inexpensive model so that I would not be out too much money should it prove to be too difficult for me. Mistake. I should have sprung for more power and range. I'm on it so much that I am having concerns that I don't get enough exercise. I'll be looking to upgrade soon.

[Larryyla]

On 2/14/2019 at 12:02 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

That’s fine and all that the Segway was working, but the point we’re making is that this “behavior” is unnatural and highly dangerous. You can’t out train instinct, and instinct is going to tell you to do everything the cameraman did and on a Segway it will spell disaster. Once you lose your balance you only have milliseconds to rebalance. Your brain is not going to work that fast so instinct will take over. What you would naturally do to regain balance is what doesn’t work on a Segway which is a huge flaw in terms of ergonomic performance and dangerous when the machine doesn’t work with the human. 

Perhaps if the Segway had the small wheels instead of the soft balloon off road tires it may not have grabbed the rail. Poor choice of equipment. 

[Scatcat]

19 minutes ago, Larryyla said:

EUC's have the advantage over Segways because they can be tossed into small cars very easily. I take mine everywhere and use it everywhere. I bought it for fun but have been surprised that I use it more for practical reasons. The 80 pound, bulky and awkward Segway is just too much hassle to load and unload everyday, so they are usually only used locally.

As far as level of difficulty, it has been my experience that they are as easy to ride as a bicycle. All one really need to do is learn to do with their legs what they do with their arms on a bike. I bought an inexpensive model so that I would not be out too much money should it prove to be too difficult for me. Mistake. I should have sprung for more power and range. I'm on it so much that I am having concerns that I don't get enough exercise. I'll be looking to upgrade soon.

Buy an 18" EUC with higher speed range, go far and fast on uneven roads or off-road, and the exercise part will be a moot point. Imagine doing the moguls for an hour or two non-stop... 

[ir_fuel]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:32 PM, Scatcat said:

A much more sane way of limiting the dangers of over-speeding, is to clearly mark the bike paths with the max speed limit. Non electric 18 gear bikes with half-inch wide tires and spandex marauders on the saddle routinely run 40 or sometimes even 50 kph on the bike paths

A friend of mine was stopped by a cop in Switzerland for speeding on his (non-electric) bicycle in a 30km/h street

[seage]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:33 PM, pst said:

but it seems like it would inspire more confidence to have a giant lever you're holding onto at all times, since you can more easily overcome the torque from road imperfections, etc.

I'd disagree with that. If its the handlebar of a bike or a scooter, or anything "fixed" then yes, it will assist with road imperfections. But the lever on a segway for stability over road imperfections is like relying on the reigns on a bull to keep you on its back. If your center of balance gets thrown, and that lever pulls to the left or right, you're doing a 180 at speed and going for a nice afternoon glide. Through the air. The handlebars aren't really FOR stability. They're for steering only. From my experience at least. They do not inspire confidence in me at least. 

[pst]

Yes, obviously you need to maintain your balance, on a balance-controlled vehicle.   This is true no matter how many wheels you have.

 

 

[Roll_On]

I have ride my Inmotion V8 for 2 years commuting in conjunction with taking the transit train in northern California.  Lots interest, but I have yet to see any other commuter riding EUC.  How do you get people interested?

1)  The author, "Hsiang" dressed in a "star war" type of outfit will not convince the general population that this is commuter friendly.  Have any of you riders of the EUC ever wear a business suit attire, and carrying a brief case?  I have seen bicyclist rider in a business suit with pants roll up.  On the EUC it would be even easier to wear business suit.

The padding is safety for riding fast.  For commuter in the city you cannot ride all that fast with all the signal lights and traffic.  I have not use padding for quite some time during commute.

2)  Having an EUC shop like a bike shop would be great for demonstration and let people to give it try.

3)  Need promotional events.  Have anyone seen EUC in commercial, action movie, or sports event?

  What about that Liberty (insurance) commercial with a bicyclist riding across the screen talking about customizing everything.  Can you do that commercial with an EUC rider?

 

[kasenutty]

Sounds like a bumpy ride 

[tenofnine]

I have no doubt that if Electric Unicycles were used by some big time celebrities or in some hyper mainstream movie (Like anything MCU, Transformers, etc) they would spread like Hover boards did.

Now I actually think that Electric Unis are much safer than Hoverboards despite having higher top speeds and in reality they only take a bit longer to learn. It is almost impossible to bust your a** on an EUC in the same way you can easily do so on OG Segways or Hoverboards (unless you are just really out of shape and have terrible balance). I've not fallen once on my EUC....could not say the same for Skateboarding, Hoverboarding, Snowboarding (within the same time frame of ownership and learning), it's so easy to bail and know when to bail off an EUC.

I personally don't want EUCs to spread like Hoverboards did. Hell I don't even want any other PEV to spread that quickly.

This only spells doom for PEVs and by extension EUCs (just as it already did for Hoverboards and is doing for eScooters). Let's face it the common denominator public are really dumb and irresponsible. Even within this small community of very capable enthusiast there are so many that already routinely break laws and are proud of it. Without a doubt these things would be outlawed once reaching any type of higher proportion in a population that is used to Bikes - Cars - Metro - Walking. It's not worth the effort to make up new laws or registration (tax title licence etc) for Government big or small. Plus there are whole economies and lobbyist that would fight against anything that might lower their profit margin (Gas/Oil, Public Transport, Rideshare, etc).

[Jerome]

30 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

I have no doubt that if Electric Unicycles were used by some big time celebrities or in some hyper mainstream movie (Like anything MCU, Transformers, etc) they would spread like Hover boards did.

Now I actually think that Electric Unis are much safer than Hoverboards despite having higher top speeds and in reality they only take a bit longer to learn. It is almost impossible to bust your a** on an EUC in the same way you can easily do so on OG Segways or Hoverboards (unless you are just really out of shape and have terrible balance). I've not fallen once on my EUC....could not say the same for Skateboarding, Hoverboarding, Snowboarding (within the same time frame of ownership and learning), it's so easy to bail and know when to bail off an EUC.

I personally don't want EUCs to spread like Hoverboards did. Hell I don't even want any other PEV to spread that quickly.

This only spells doom for PEVs and by extension EUCs (just as it already did for Hoverboards and is doing for eScooters). Let's face it the common denominator public are really dumb and irresponsible. Even within this small community of very capable enthusiast there are so many that already routinely break laws and are proud of it. Without a doubt these things would be outlawed once reaching any type of higher proportion in a population that is used to Bikes - Cars - Metro - Walking. It's not worth the effort to make up new laws or registration (tax title licence etc) for Government big or small. Plus there are whole economies and lobbyist that would fight against anything that might lower their profit margin (Gas/Oil, Public Transport, Rideshare, etc).

In the USA at least, those are sad but true words. I definitely don't want EUCs to become a fad, or in the words of the "Doors", "This is end, the end my friend.."

[Marty Backe]

44 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

I have no doubt that if Electric Unicycles were used by some big time celebrities or in some hyper mainstream movie (Like anything MCU, Transformers, etc) they would spread like Hover boards did.

Now I actually think that Electric Unis are much safer than Hoverboards despite having higher top speeds and in reality they only take a bit longer to learn. It is almost impossible to bust your a** on an EUC in the same way you can easily do so on OG Segways or Hoverboards (unless you are just really out of shape and have terrible balance). I've not fallen once on my EUC....could not say the same for Skateboarding, Hoverboarding, Snowboarding (within the same time frame of ownership and learning), it's so easy to bail and know when to bail off an EUC.

I personally don't want EUCs to spread like Hoverboards did. Hell I don't even want any other PEV to spread that quickly.

This only spells doom for PEVs and by extension EUCs (just as it already did for Hoverboards and is doing for eScooters). Let's face it the common denominator public are really dumb and irresponsible. Even within this small community of very capable enthusiast there are so many that already routinely break laws and are proud of it. Without a doubt these things would be outlawed once reaching any type of higher proportion in a population that is used to Bikes - Cars - Metro - Walking. It's not worth the effort to make up new laws or registration (tax title licence etc) for Government big or small. Plus there are whole economies and lobbyist that would fight against anything that might lower their profit margin (Gas/Oil, Public Transport, Rideshare, etc).

I only disagree with your first paragraph. The perceived danger and real difficulty of learning to ride EUCs will forever keep them niche. I don't care what celebrity uses them or where they appear in movies/TV.

After interacting with vast numbers of people in my EUC travels, I can say it's the rare individual who shows a peaked interest in learning more about our wheels.

So you can rest easy that there will be no mass spreading of EUCs 

[tenofnine]

27 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I only disagree with your first paragraph. The perceived danger and real difficulty of learning to ride EUCs will forever keep them niche. I don't care what celebrity uses them or where they appear in movies/TV.

After interacting with vast numbers of people in my EUC travels, I can say it's the rare individual who shows a peaked interest in learning more about our wheels.

So you can rest easy that there will be no mass spreading of EUCs 

Yea I definitely don't feel that's true at all, but I guess we'll see.

There were already plenty of videos of people eating sh** on Hoverboards even after celebrities and influences were spreading their visibility. The only thing that slowed that fad down was bad news coverage, exploding batteries, and legal ramifications. There is a very real difference in how kids learn something new and how adults learn something new. Older people are by far more hesitant and have far more trouble adopting and learning something that is perceived as dangerous.

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

Yea I definitely don't feel that's true at all, but I guess we'll see.

There were already plenty of videos of people eating sh** on Hoverboards even after celebrities and influences were spreading their visibility. The only thing that slowed that fad down was bad news coverage, exploding batteries, and legal ramifications. There is a very real difference in how kids learn something new and how adults learn something new. Older people are by far more hesitant and have far more trouble adopting and learning something that is perceived as dangerous.

The problem is that EUCs are expensive. Many (most) people would put them in the category of a luxury purchase.

Yes, kids and young adults are fearless and more adept at picking up new skills such as riding an EUC. What they lack is money.

We shall see, but I'm putting my money on niche-forever 

[LanghamP]

25 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

The problem is that EUCs are expensive. Many (most) people would put them in the category of a luxury purchase.

Nothing mass-produced on an assembly line in China stays expensive for long.

I was on campus today with my KS16S and saw more than a few boosted boards (they are far more popular than regular skateboards, by about 3 to 1). Boosted boards and that other air-tired skateboard have become mainstream. Perhaps it's boosted boards and eScooters for the young, and eBikes for the not-so-young, that will be the transportation revolution.

It's obvious that Wheels aren't mainstream because so many people over the past month have asked me what I'm riding, and that it looks absolutely insane. I think they recognize the technology (Segway's self-balancers) but not the peculiar application of wheels.

If they ask me how hard it is to ride one of these I tell them it's so easy even a Chinese dog can ride one.

 

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Nothing mass-produced on an assembly line in China stays expensive for long.

I was on campus today with my KS16S and saw more than a few boosted boards (they are far more popular than regular skateboards, by about 3 to 1). Boosted boards and that other air-tired skateboard have become mainstream. Perhaps it's boosted boards and eScooters for the young, and eBikes for the not-so-young, that will be the transportation revolution.

It's obvious that Wheels aren't mainstream because so many people over the past month have asked me what I'm riding, and that it looks absolutely insane. I think they recognize the technology (Segway's self-balancers) but not the peculiar application of wheels.

If they ask me how hard it is to ride one of these I tell them it's so easy even a Chinese dog can ride one.

 

Little bit of the chicken and egg. Currently EUCs prices are climbing faster then inflation. If they can ever be mass produced then you are right, the prices will decrease.

I know you have a training method that can teach anyone to ride in a handful of minutes. But until we can clone you, EUCs will remain mysterious and difficult to learn.

Hell, hoverboards were a craze and relatively cheap, yet in the grand scheme of things, they were niche. I myself only saw one in the wild.

We'll be having this same discussion in five years.

P.s. I forget that you can buy a cheapo Chinese knock-offs of a Chinese knock-off (EUCs were invented in the United States) for a few hundred dollars. But that doesn't make them any easier to learn.

[Darrell Wesh]

lol I was on campus with my Dualtron Thunder and everyone immediately recognized how different it was from a regular scooter. Comments like “wow that looks cool/fun” and “I’ve never seen one like that before”

The Thunder (with its stock suspension) puts you so high up in the air you’re literally seeing over cars and SUV’s. It feels a little like peacocking to slowly roll by. 

But anyways, at least at Virginia Tech, I’ve never seen anyone commute to class on an escooter. There were some frat boys with two little puny ninebot escooters but last time I saw them (walking the scooters home)they were complaining that too many girls riding it had broken them. 

Just today I saw my first sighting of a commuter on an ebike. It was perplexing, he was going down a straight road with the wind at his bike and I was coming straight towards him. He was going fast, there was no way he was going that fast on a straight without having pedaled for the last 5 seconds. Then I heard the high pitched whine of his motor as he went past. I would definetly consider getting an ebike if I find one with good enough specs. @Jason McNeil any ebikes coming to ewheels?

It’s literally all eskateboards over here. And usually the cheap $400 amazon ones. I know some guys with boosted boards and they can’t ride worth anything. Like me and my friend on EUC’s went for a ride with them and they had to actually stop and rotate their board so they could make a 160 degree turn the EUC’s did easy. 

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

The problem is that EUCs are expensive. Many (most) people would put them in the category of a luxury purchase.

Yes, kids and young adults are fearless and more adept at picking up new skills such as riding an EUC. What they lack is money.

We shall see, but I'm putting my money on niche-forever 

Yes, niche forever. The learning curve..... most people that would actually buy one are those that need a good commuter vehicle having been fed up with their alternative options (bumper to bumper traffic, bus, subway etc) They don’t want to put up with needing a whole month to feel comfortable to even do their commute on an EUC. They want instant gratification. The minipro, an escooter, or ebike are just superior in terms of delivering that satisfaction. Even though dollar for dollar an EUC destroys the specs of any other PEV. 

[LanghamP]

"The average American emits enough carbon to melt 10,000 tons of Artic ice per year."

So there's good reasons to make some transportation revolution, regardless of its particulars.