RockyTop Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Start them off young. I bet this person will be riding an EUC soon. I watched the Amsterdam video by Non Stop Neal. He said that EUC’s are not legal on the bike paths yet you see mopeds on the bike paths. That does not make any sense. They must really hate EUCs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, RockyTop said: I watched the Amsterdam video by Non Stop Neal. He said that EUC’s are not legal on the bike paths yet you see mopeds on the bike paths. That does not make any sense. They must really hate EUCs The Netherlands are so flat that bicycles are relaxing to ride, so there is not as much incentive to go electric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I have said on previous occasions that I think that EUCs will always be niche. Will the numbers of people using them grow? Yes. However, electric transport as a mobility solution is experiencing a massive growth phase across the board. So, while I believe that people using EUCs will grow numerically, I am not yet a believer that the market proportion will significantly increase if at all; in fact, it could decrease even as the number of users grow if niche adoption of EUCs isn't somewhat symmetrical with overall electric transport adoption. The main barriers to ubiquitous adoption are cost, personal risk, and steep learning curve. Personal risk and cost are more easily overcome barriers than the steep learning curve, because the learning curve is attached to the expectation of immediate post-purchase gratification in a consumer culture. I believe that a large part of the success of bicycles is that they target children who then grow up riding them. Learning to ride a bike has been culturally internalized as part of a very important childhood rites of passage, and parental bonding ritual. If EUCs attached to this very important aspect of growing up then they could realistically take off. I don't think that the safety issue is that big of a deal if the wheels are properly introduced early enough. Parents buy their children dangerous-ish devices all the time; skateboards, bicycles, inline skates. They do this because they want their children to approach life as fearless risk-takers they want them to build confidence and learn to overcome limitations by conquering challenges. They want this for their children all the while fearing for their safety; thus, the risk they allow will be calculated. EUCs can be successful if sellers learn to understand and key into people's needs at the most basic levels. In this effort the approach to cultural integration matters much more than the device itself IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Nic said: The Netherlands are so flat that bicycles are relaxing to ride, so there is not as much incentive to go electric. True...... so I guess the government is taking the choice to ride an EUC away from it’s people to keep them healthy? I am all for it if that is what the people of the Netherlands want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lutalo said: I am not yet a believer that the market proportion will significantly increase if at all; I agree.... but if you add more @Marty Backe clones to the equation that have behemoth wheel collections and the proportions might just exceed your expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 37 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: I agree.... but if you add more @Marty Backe clones to the equation that have behemoth wheel collections and the proportions might just exceed your expectations. That would be awesome. 47 minutes ago, RockyTop said: True...... so I guess the government is taking the choice to ride an EUC away from it’s people to keep them healthy? I am all for it if that is what the people of the Netherlands want. I hope they at least asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Nic said: The Netherlands are so flat that bicycles are relaxing to ride, so there is not as much incentive to go electric. They want Incentive? How about awesome fun? Don't make me go to the Netherlands and explain to the authorities personally that they need to let the Netherlandese people have a great time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 18 minutes ago, Lutalo said: They want Incentive? How about awesome fun? Don't make me go to the Netherlands and explain to the authorities personally that they need to let the Netherlandese people have a great time You know, at first blush, when reading that word you wrote, I thought, "Neanderthals" Maybe that's an appropriate misunderstanding in this circumstance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 54 minutes ago, Lutalo said: Parents buy their children dangerous-ish devices all the time; skateboards, bicycles, inline skates. They do this because they want their children to approach life as fearless risk-takers they want them to build confidence and learn to overcome limitations by conquering challenges. In this effort the approach to cultural integration matters much more than the device itself IMHO. It's my belief that EUC adoption would be highest in Germany over the other European countries, because German playgrounds are notoriously dangerous. Some of those rides, you will fall and you will die. However, in Berlin EUCs are forbidden despite the number of people injured and killed by regulated and insured vehicles and licensed drivers. Watching adult learners attempting to ride bicycles shows they learn under guidance in under an hour with little physical effort while children seem to take between few days to weeks. This forum showed great variability in EUC learning which leads me to believe that EUCs are quite a bit harder than bicycles to learn. Show me a rider who learned the EUC in 15 minutes and I'll show you a bullshiter who had lots of experience falling off other rides. That's why I think eScooter adoption is at such high levels. As far as I can tell, private eScooter adoption is the highest and quickest of any vehicle ever. Add in Lime and Byrd for the urban areas, and you have tremendous coverage everywhere. I estimate scooters are nearly 100% in my neighborhood, with electric scooters being at least half, along with mini pros. The eScooter has surmounted its goofiness (it's still goofy) with its tremendous utility and theft proof advantages over bicycles. Everyone who has ridden one loves them. eScooters are comparable with EUCs performance-wise, while being maybe 1/20 as hard. You might mount and go on an eScooter on the 1st or 2nd try but probably your 80th EUC mount is successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/7/2019 at 3:39 PM, LanghamP said: Watching adult learners attempting to ride bicycles shows they learn under guidance in under an hour with little physical effort while children seem to take between few days to weeks. Of course much depends on what "learn" means when you write "lean in under an hour". I know adults who are not able to ride a bicycle, but I don't know any adult who has been able to change this consistently. I don't say they don't exist, it just seems to me that they are rare. In any case, the game will be won or lost not on adults learning to ride an EUC, but on children. To my experience, they get the grasp on EUCs pretty quickly and have lots of fun in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, LanghamP said: The eScooter has surmounted its goofiness (it's still goofy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I'm hoping to find out that eScooters are a gateway drug for EUC's; I plan to do a lot more casual riding this summer once the scooters hit the streets so folks can see what the next level looks like when they are ready for something better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Is this the latest in crash protection gear designed not to intimidate pedestrians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meelosh123 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I took a trip to Amsterdam last week (first time there, really pretty city) and got a kick out of all the bicycles. Lots of bicycles = lots of bike racks, full of bikes, and sometimes bikes just strewn across the ground. EUCs may cut down on the amount of space required to store these personal transport vehicles. I couldn't help but think how much easier/safer it is to emergency brake with a bike. It's more mindless and requires much less balance, and there's virtually zero chance of the bike running off on its own to hit someone or a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Nic said: Is this the latest in crash protection gear designed not to intimidate pedestrians? Funny!! Maybe we should have an non- intimidation costume contest on who can generate the most pedestrian smiles during a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, Meelosh123 said: I couldn't help but think how much easier/safer it is to emergency brake with a bike. It's more mindless and requires much less balance, and there's virtually zero chance of the bike running off on its own to hit someone or a car. I ride with bikes all the time. I have had bikes emergency stop in front of me and had no trouble stopping. Also, I have had to grab bikes and the people riding them when they made sudden movements cutting me off all without anyone wrecking. I am not sure that would have been possible if I were also on a bike. Keep in mind that people in the Netherlands are professional bike riders by habit. If you lived in the Netherlands and used an EUC instead of a bike you would quickly become a professional EUC rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meelosh123 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, RockyTop said: I ride with bikes all the time. I have had bikes emergency stop in front of me and had no trouble stopping. Also, I have had to grab bikes and the people riding them when they made sudden movements cutting me off all without anyone wrecking. I am not sure that would have been possible if I were also on a bike. Just my opinion. My thoughts on the matter changed slightly when I consistently witnessed hundreds/thousands of bikes in close proximity...imagining all of them on unicycles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Meelosh123 said: Just my opinion. My thoughts on the matter changed slightly when I consistently witnessed hundreds/thousands of bikes in close proximity...imagining all of them on unicycles... They are amazing to watch. Especially when you see the little kids and grandmas mixing In flawlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Marty Backe said: You know, at first blush, when reading that word you wrote, I thought, "Neanderthals" Maybe that's an appropriate misunderstanding in this circumstance . Is it Netherlandese or Netherlandites? Not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, LanghamP said: You might mount and go on an eScooter on the 1st or 2nd try but probably your 80th EUC mount is successful. Exactly. The short learning curve of e-scooters better feeds the desire and expectations for immediate gratification. This is why I think e-scooters will in general most likely always be more easily embraced and widely adopted than EUCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Lutalo said: Exactly. The short learning curve of e-scooters better feeds the desire and expectations for immediate gratification. This is why I think e-scooters will in general most likely always be more easily embraced and widely adopted than EUCs. First comes scooters, then comes EUCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 hours ago, winterwheel said: I'm hoping to find out that eScooters are a gateway drug for EUC's; I plan to do a lot more casual riding this summer once the scooters hit the streets so folks can see what the next level looks like when they are ready for something better. Better hope you don’t come across a Dualtron that’ll show any EUC “something better” 😄😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Meelosh123 said: I couldn't help but think how much easier/safer it is to emergency brake with a bike. It's more mindless and requires much less balance, and there's virtually zero chance of the bike running off on its own to hit someone or a car. 90% of the time you can go around the danger or squeeze in somewhere to avoid it instead of hoping your brakes are good enough to stop in time. This requires serious skill on a bicycle which might not be maneuverable enough, but a breeze on an EUC. Ask any adept NYC EUC rider @houseofjob if they rely on straight line braking for danger ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said: Better hope you don’t come across a Dualtron that’ll show any EUC “something better” 😄😄 For the road maybe, don't see taking one of those into the forest, or even many of the bike paths around here; it'd toss you off in a heartbeat. Also wouldn't be very maneuverable around pedestrians, tight corners etc. And of course we can't forget winter conditions. And the biggest thing, how could I forget! on an EUC you have your hands free, a scooter you have to use them for steering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 4 hours ago, winterwheel said: First comes scooters, then comes EUCs. Keep hope alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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