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Hsiang

Will the EUC be the Transporation Revolution that the Segway fail to achieve?

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What about pogo sticks as transport?:whistling:

If its good enough for Kangaroos...

Edited by Nic
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I don't think EUCs in their current iteration would catch, as much as I love my Z10 a $2,000, 60 lbs wheel is not something that a regular person would buy. the cost of entry either have to be incredibly low, ie. Lime and electric scooter. or it'll have to be pitched as a premium product that offer beautiful design, convienence and performance, like Tesla (the car that is). IMHO, EUC will never be easy to get into because of learning curve alone, so the premium path is the only one that'll work for us. And that'll require strong branding, good design and great marketing, none of which any of the Chinese manufacturer have the resource or interest to pursue, and no US company would touch it due to patent issue.

nothing wrong with EUC staying neiche, but investment and development will be slow and if the public's sentiment ever turns against us. like the ban on hoverboards, our wheels can turn into expensive paperweights overnight.

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2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

"boy, if those old guys can ride those they must not be very hard to ride or dangerous".

I hear comments like that today! I don't have to wait 20 years.:rolleyes:

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13 minutes ago, Hsiang said:

I don't think EUCs in their current iteration would catch, as much as I love my Z10 a $2,000, 60 lbs wheel is not something that a regular person would buy. the cost of entry either have to be incredibly low, ie. Lime and electric scooter. or it'll have to be pitched as a premium product that offer beautiful design, convienence and performance, like Tesla (the car that is). IMHO, EUC will never be easy to get into because of learning curve alone, so the premium path is the only one that'll work for us. And that'll require strong branding, good design and great marketing, none of which any of the Chinese manufacturer have the resource or interest to pursue, and no US company would touch it due to patent issue.

nothing wrong with EUC staying neiche, but investment and development will be slow and if the public's sentiment ever turns against us. like the ban on hoverboards, our wheels can turn into expensive paperweights overnight.

What you say is how it appears right now, but things can easily change. When Segways, Hoverboards and EUCs appeared on the scene they were all banned ... the public doesn't forget easiliy as they are still technically banned in most places around the world. Why would someone risk spending money on something expensive only to find they cannot use it because they will be fined and have their expensive 'toy' confiscated? It's certainly enough to stop me from buying one of these devices. Price is a major factor, especially when you can buy a cheap bicycle for less than $100 at Walmart. But its too much hard work to lug groceries around on a bicycle and an e-bike is just to big and heavy to store if you live in a small apartment. I also can buy a pretty good secondhand car for the price of a good EUC, though it will likely spend most of its time stationary in traffic.

Edited by Nic

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I expect we will see real police officers riding EUCs, as well as Deliveroo riders and postmen in the near future.:popcorn:

 

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I think PLEVs overall are already starting to make a revolution, but mostly it is scooters. For most people two wheels feels safer, even when those wheels are like 8x1.5" or so and in reality much less safe. The learning curve is also not nearly as steep, even though the skilled rider on a EUC is both more agile and steadier on their vehicle. There are of course scooters that are both agile and relatively safe at speed, but I'm talking the rentals you see everywhere now.

But as scooters become more popular, and Segways become eclipsed by cheaper, faster and lighter vehicles, there will be room for EUCs too. Especially if the manufacturers finally get their act together in terms of QC, safety in design, and ergonomics. The latest generation shows some promise, but we still see such shit as KS-wheels locking up because of static when trollying around, NBZ being delivered with "dead" batteries, that need taking apart to get them to take a charge and so on, so we're not really there yet.

Also, a simple maneuver, like changing a tire, really shouldn't require you to open up the electrics at all. That simple fact goes to show these things are still mostly for enthusiasts.

Edited by Scatcat
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50 minutes ago, Nic said:

I might own a scooter one day, but I don't like Onewheel or skateboards as they seem like a very compromised solution offering no practical advantages over EUCs and Scooters. Those that like the feeling of surfing would probably consider one, but I am mostly focused on practicality with fun being a bonus.

I'm not sure I'll ever be able to match on the EUC the acceleration from a dead stop that I can achieve with a powerful electric skateboard. The EUC mount is just a bit too fiddly.  On the skateboard, you are already mounted.  You just lean, pull the trigger and blast off.  It's very helpful in the city environment.  I can easily beat cars off the line and create the space I need to operate with comfort--often between pods of cars rather than stuck right in the middle of them.  What brought me to EUCs is the range that they offer, which can only be achieved at the moment with something too big and heavy to be an effective skateboard, and the ability to ride in weather.    

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I think EUC's will start taking off among the general public in about 20-years. Why? Because a lot of us are in the 50 & 60 year age bracket. Assuming that we keep riding, in 20-years time there will be a lot of 70 and 80 year old dudes (and some dudets) riding around, and people will think, "boy, if those old guys can ride those they must not be very hard to ride or dangerous".

I'd say five-ten years because little kids think these things rock and are going to want them when they get older.

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33 minutes ago, Hsiang said:

Onewheel did a better job with outreaching to the influencers and despite similar challenges; price, learning curve and regulation, I personally see more public interest in them despite its performance deficit as compare to the EUCs. The only one pushing EUCs seems to be Ewheel by sending the samples around, but a distributor can only do so much if the companies them selves aren't willing to invest more in marketing.

Its a big world ... Onewheel is mainly in US and I can't see them staying in business long because they are so much inferior to EUC's.

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3 hours ago, Paul2579 said:

I'm not sure I'll ever be able to match on the EUC the acceleration from a dead stop that I can achieve with a powerful electric skateboard. The EUC mount is just a bit too fiddly.  On the skateboard, you are already mounted.  You just lean, pull the trigger and blast off.  It's very helpful in the city environment.  I can easily beat cars off the line and create the space I need to operate with comfort--often between pods of cars rather than stuck right in the middle of them.  What brought me to EUCs is the range that they offer, which can only be achieved at the moment with something too big and heavy to be an effective skateboard, and the ability to ride in weather.    

Not sure how skilled you are with an EUC if you’re making this comment. The only cars you won’t beat off the line at a traffic stop are those that floor it. Most car drivers accelerate quite slowly and just build to a higher speed than an EUC. 

EUC’s are dramatically superior to e-skateboard in the “city environment” ESPECIALLY “between pods of cars” as the maneuverability is first class. 

Edited by Darrell Wesh
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2 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Not sure how skilled you are with an EUC if you’re making this comment. The only cars you won’t beat off the line at a traffic stop are those that floor it. Most car drivers accelerate quite slowly and just build to a higher speed than an EUC. 

Also, EUC’s are dramatically superior to e-skateboard in the “city environment” ESPECIALLY “between pods of cars” as the maneuverability is first class. 

Riding sideways is not something I would ever want to do. I've also seen people flub getting onto onewheels before they get used to it, so you gotta learn the technique no matter what device you happen to be riding.

Not that there's anything wrong with onewheels, I'd love to see thousands of them around as well.

Edited by winterwheel

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41 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Not that there's anything wrong with onewheels, I'd love to see thousands of them around as well.

How would you deal with cramp in one leg?

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20 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Not sure how skilled you are with an EUC if you’re making this comment

Touché.  All I can do is project a little bit while accounting for the mechanics of driving power through very small wheels vs. very large wheels.  And observe that even the most skilled rider has to lift a foot and shift his weight forward to accelerate an EUC.  Not so for skateboard.

I agree that EUCs can't be beat in terms of maneuverability.  It's sort of like having super powers.  

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Paul2579 said:

Touché.  All I can do is project a little bit while accounting for the mechanics of driving power through very small wheels vs. very large wheels.  And observe that even the most skilled rider has to lift a foot and shift his weight forward to accelerate an EUC.  Not so for skateboard.

I agree that EUCs can't be beat in terms of maneuverability.  It's sort of like having super powers.  

... and there's no hand controller to lose.

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3 hours ago, Hsiang said:

Onewheel did a better job with outreaching to the influencers

I suppose its easier to get a good 'unboxing' video out of a OneWheel than an EUC. It seems like OneWheels take less effort to learn than EUCs, so sending one to an untrained influencer is going to produce a better result. Sending an MSX to an influencer for review who has never seen a wheel before, well, :shock2:

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I'd say 15 to 30 years before electrics (not especially EUCs but rather eBikes and eScooters) become the dominant form of transportation in the US.

The reason is not consumer choice but economic necessities. There are already strong signs this is happening now.

2 out of 3 new cars are bought by people over the age of 60. However, the average car loan is now an amazing 69 months while government debt to finance this infrastructure now stands at a cool 1.2 million dollars per citizen.

In other words, building suburbs with a vast network of roads with immense debt isn't sustainable. Maybe Millennials want to buy cars and move out to the suburbs but their student and car debt precludes such action. Well, I want a Lamborghini in my garage, but we're not going to get our way, are we?

Therefore, the only forseable outcome is for people to live less in the suburbs, maintain and build less high-speed roads. More people will live in the urban areas, and indeed this is what we are seeing. Electrics have proven to be absurdly popular in urban areas in a way that bicycles haven't been for 100 years, and surveys show not getting your electric stolen to be the number 1 or 2 reason why that is so. Now GPS tracking may solve this for some of us who are affluent, but the eBike and bike suffer profoundly from theft.

Uber and Lyft show how quick and cheap it is to forgo a car and still be safer, and those people probably won't have electrics, but for the rest of us risk takers electrics make sense. There's a lot of alternatives to the car; the Tesla cars won't help because they still require infrastructure and parking.

Edited by LanghamP
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10 hours ago, Hsiang said:

Onewheel did a better job with outreaching to the influencers and despite similar challenges; price, learning curve and regulation, I personally see more public interest in them despite its performance deficit as compare to the EUCs. The only one pushing EUCs seems to be Ewheel by sending the samples around, but a distributor can only do so much if the companies them selves aren't willing to invest more in marketing.

Actually my finger was on the trigger, right about to buy a Onewheel because of that amazing advertising. When i watched a video of a group ride and saw this 1 wheeled monster (literally- but i didnt know this at the time) jet by. I had to roll it back and watch again. I was like, "What in the hell was that?!" Well so was the dude in the video. He went up and talked to the dude riding and he went over specs and all this. He was sitting down ripping on hills. Cruising down them. Casually chatting like it was nothing, while everyone else was looking so hardcore, dude looked zen. I was like, okay...research time, WHAT is THAT?! Especially because the OneWheel had the nosedive issue, so i was like......well..for my bumpy city, it may be the only option......i guess i'll learn to roll... Thankful I didnt get it.

And actually, a lot people raised some good points, and a reason why even though these thigns may not catch on soon, i dont think they'll be banned (at least in the west). And thats because of the giant electric movement. All those scooter rentals and tesla charging stations all over. And e-everything all over the place now. Seeing an EUC is barely going to get a second look in some places where this type of tech is being looked at so positively. Someone has to do something INSANELY stupid and dangerous. Like a highspeed test on a footpath beside a daycare, after its just been let out. As slow as the movement is going, there are a lot of people wanting to go greener, and govs are starting to listen to people and allow for services that make that a bit easier, and its popping up more and more. We'll just blend in with the rental riders, is all. 

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4 hours ago, seage said:

Actually my finger was on the trigger, right about to buy a Onewheel because of that amazing advertising. When i watched a video of a group ride and saw this 1 wheeled monster (literally- but i didnt know this at the time) jet by. I had to roll it back and watch again. I was like, "What in the hell was that?!" Well so was the dude in the video. He went up and talked to the dude riding and he went over specs and all this. He was sitting down ripping on hills. Cruising down them. Casually chatting like it was nothing, while everyone else was looking so hardcore, dude looked zen. I was like, okay...research time, WHAT is THAT?! Especially because the OneWheel had the nosedive issue, so i was like......well..for my bumpy city, it may be the only option......i guess i'll learn to roll... Thankful I didnt get it.

And actually, a lot people raised some good points, and a reason why even though these thigns may not catch on soon, i dont think they'll be banned (at least in the west). And thats because of the giant electric movement. All those scooter rentals and tesla charging stations all over. And e-everything all over the place now. Seeing an EUC is barely going to get a second look in some places where this type of tech is being looked at so positively. Someone has to do something INSANELY stupid and dangerous. Like a highspeed test on a footpath beside a daycare, after its just been let out. As slow as the movement is going, there are a lot of people wanting to go greener, and govs are starting to listen to people and allow for services that make that a bit easier, and its popping up more and more. We'll just blend in with the rental riders, is all. 

I think rules and regulations will be very different from country to country. At least for a while.

Look at the UK, where both the Segway and the EUC is prohibited from using public roads, bike paths and pedestrian paths. Except for France the rest of Europe seem to be on the fence. Some have formal prohibitions that aren't enforced, while others have a legal grey area where it depends a lot on the goodwill of cops if you're pulled over or not. In most countries there are no clear insurance regulations, so the insurance companies have none to offer if you want a liability insurance in traffic. Here in Sweden for example, the EUCs/scooters are supposed to be included in home insurance, much like bikes – but (luckily) that haven't been put to the test yet.

I think the momentum is clear. The position of cars in our lives have a lot to do with a combination of:

  1. The idea of freedom and independence. Where up till the last generation or so, the act of getting your first car was almost a rite of passage into adulthood.
  2. Attitudes toward public transportation. In many places, especially in the US as I understand it, only the destitute even consider going by public transportation. Not having a car is the same as saying you're a poor schmuck.
  3. The infrastructure. Even in the EU, where public transportation is not automatically looked down upon, actually getting where you have to go is not always trivial without a car.
  4. Cargo. Try going shopping for the week on a EUC. I have driven home on my wheel with a ten pound bag of food in each hand – it is not the most pleasant experience. Where I live a lot of people are getting cargo e-bikes, which solves the problem of shopping, getting the kids from the nursery and so on.

But I think the next generation doesn't/won't feel the same way about it. For a lot of people growing up, cars are more associated with pollution, global warming and city plans clearly unfriendly to anyone without at least a ton of steel around them. Cars have their place, for long trips, for big shopping and on days with really bad weather. But consider an urban environment with a third of the cars of today, and mostly electrical ones. With three times the public transportation (both in volume and convenience) and the rest of the needs served by PEVs both light ones and more cargo friendly solutions. It would be much much cleaner, more friendly to unprotected humans and in many ways more "alive".

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