Will the EUC be the Transporation Revolution that the Segway fail to achieve?

[Mono]

@tenofnine, what's this device in your avatar?

[Smoother]

33 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

You can do it 2 ways - 

Both hands on each handlebar, or just one hand in the middle of the handlebar using like a mobile wall to lean your weight on.

 

 

Hey man sorry it might have taken you a few month to learn. The woman Michael Paolini taught on camera learned in under 60 minutes with no action sports experience. I have been skateboarding for half my life and done snow sports quite a bit, that contributed to my expedited learning I imagine.

So roll your eyes all you like, be childish and negative. I just wish I had used to Bike so I wouldn't have scratched up my EUC learning the initial free mount, that's why I mentioned it.

Man! you seriously need to learn how to take a joke.  By pointing out it only took you 15 minutes to learn, is paying you a complement.  Lighten up, this is a friendly place.

EDIT I apologise if my comments came across as anything other than humorous and complimentary. There's no "tongue in cheek" imogee

[pico]

2 hours ago, tenofnine said:

Hey man sorry it might have taken you a few month to learn.

Sorry to tell you this, I read this is as a pretty aggressive statement...

This is a friendly board...

 

[LanghamP]

On 3/7/2019 at 11:56 AM, Mono said:

Should probably read why electrics (except electric cars) won't be revolutionary for quite some time in the US of America.

It's all just so...stupid. Whereas I don't think most individuals are stupid, as a whole we encourage collective stupidity because we allow ludicrously risky behavior.

Again, it's all just so stupid. I can understand individuals making decisions at the cost of their own health, but what I find stupid (others may call that corruption) is where society encourages unhealthy behavior while discouraging behavior that would help society as a whole.

An example would be fast food, whereby corn, beef, potatoes, and sugar are very heavily subsidized. Fast food prices are set so low because everyone pays for that hamburger.

To me, it's a tragedy that autos are so heavily subsidized and socialized, to the extent that we are causing great physical harm on the personal level (40,000 killed in direct traffic wrecks, ~50,000 killed by tailpipe emissions. US figures.), and obviously great harm on the global level via greenhouse gases, whose destructive effects we have dramatically seen recently (ocean hypoxia, insect and animal die off, etc...).

For a modest fee of about $35,000 -$70,000 per household, we can eliminate all tailpipe emissions and coal plants by installing solar generators and eCars.

For no fee at all we can eliminate minimum parking and zoning requirements, thereby allowing people to drive far less.

And again, for no fee at all, we can encourage EUCs and eScooters, which have only killed a handful of people vs automobiles, but instead here we are, 2019, going the opposite way by cheap gas, bigger trucks, laws against eScooters, etc...

It all seems so stupid. If this continues we will be the authors of our own demise.

[Jerome]

There is no ignoring the Pink Elephant in the room, which is EUCs require the wearing of protective clothing. The public has never and probably will never embrace a mode of land transport where you have to wear more than a helmet .. if that. The rental scooters are popular because you can jump on and ride wearing anything you happen to be wearing.  They are seen as e-bikes without pedals, where even today many bike riders don't wear helmets and almost no one wears protective gear unless riding off-road. Most know that wearing a helmet is a good idea, but there is no inherent danger seen with the vehicle itself. Bike or e-kick scooter riders see the danger coming mainly from cars, pedestrians and other bike/scooter riders, not the terrain or the potential failure of the vehicle itself. 

We EUC riders have to deal with the above concerns plus be forever vigilant of the terrain where the slightest misconception, underestimation, or lapse in perception can lead to a serious injury. This danger does not go away no matter how many miles one has ridden or ones skill level. Most people are refusing to even wear a helmet riding the rental scooters, least alone gear up with armor just so they can go 3 miles to - from their park cars/trains/offices/homes/etc. If they  "discover" the EUC, it will become immediately apparent in the learning process that it is not something you can jump on and ride to the store wearing flip-flops and regular street clothes "without the possibility of serious ramifications".  

EUC riders are odd-ducks. The public may say EUCs are cool, ask questions about learning to ride, how much they cost, how fast do they, etc.,  but the bottom line is there will never be but a small number of odd-ducks who will embrace them. If by some miracle EUCs do become a fad/popular their time in the sun will be brief. The injuries and horror stories will end their fame quicker than an exploding hoverboard.

[ir_fuel]

5 minutes ago, Jerome said:

There is no ignoring the Pink Elephant in the room, which is EUCs require the wearing of protective clothing

You should check the topic of the Dutch EUC riders on this forum then  I looked at a few videos and from what I gather it's as if helmets are illegal over there  

[Jerome]

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

You should check the topic of the Dutch EUC riders on this forum then  I looked at a few videos and from what I gather it's as if helmets are illegal over there  

Yes, we have people on the forum and people riding bikes, eSka8s, high speed scooters, roller blades, etc with no protection, who have had good luck and generally have superior skills. These people will probably fair better than the ones armored to the gills, that is the way fate seems to play. They are, however, a super small sample. If the general public gets involved, injuries will be the norm and not the exception. 

[ir_fuel]

The "best" I saw were some people without any protection riding their euc at 15+mph with their hands in their pockets 

[Darrell Wesh]

33 minutes ago, Jerome said:

Yes, we have people on the forum and people riding bikes, eSka8s, high speed scooters, roller blades, etc with no protection, who have had good luck and generally have superior skills. These people will probably fair better than the ones armored to the gills, that is the way fate seems to play. They are, however, a super small sample. If the general public gets involved, injuries will be the norm and not the exception. 

But how is this any different than skateboarders at a skate park (or anywhere really) practicing their tricks with no gear? Skateboarders suffer injuries galore but no one points them out because it’s considered a normal part of the culture of skateboarding. 

It should be no different for EUC’s if the general public embraces a culture of having no gear. You have to understand that what you do to yourself via these extreme commuting options, no one cares about. The government isn’t going to ban EUC’s because of mass personal use injuries.

They banned hover boards because of INDIRECT injury and/or property damage resulting from fires. 

[Larryyla]

On 3/4/2019 at 11:45 AM, Scatcat said:

Buy an 18" EUC with higher speed range, go far and fast on uneven roads or off-road, and the exercise part will be a moot point. Imagine doing the moguls for an hour or two non-stop... 

I plan to go with an 18. I suspect that a larger EUC might just be to difficult to manage when not riding, such as putting it in the car or on a boat.

[tenofnine]

14 hours ago, Mono said:

@tenofnine, what's this device in your avatar?

It supposedly is called a Skate Bike (unicycle), 1960's invention that was a Unicycle with training wheels. Just seems like a really bad tricycle to me.
It's also the first result in google images when you search "unicycle lol"

 

12 hours ago, pico said:

Sorry to tell you this, I read this is as a pretty aggressive statement...

This is a friendly board...

 

Don't feel sorry, everyone is entitled to imply anything when they read my statements.

[Jerome]

5 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

But how is this any different than skateboarders at a skate park (or anywhere really) practicing their tricks with no gear? Skateboarders suffer injuries galore but no one points them out because it’s considered a normal part of the culture of skateboarding. 

Yes, that is part of the culture of a fringe group. The public isn't looking to do tricks and risks injuries. They are looking for a safe, reliable, efficient form of personal transport to augment or replace their current car driven culture. 

 

5 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

It should be no different for EUC’s if the general public embraces a culture of having no gear. You have to understand that what you do to yourself via these extreme commuting options, no one cares about.

You are partly correct in that the public does embrace a culture of not wearing protective clothing/gear, and they don't care if e-boarders, or EUC rider's hurt themselves riding "those dangerous and crazy contraptions". They care a lot about whether they hurt themselves, however, and therefore have gravitated  to scooters and bikes out of a "perceived" risk assessment that said vehicles are safe to ride in and of themselves without protective clothes other than a possible helmet.

5 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

The government isn’t going to ban EUC’s because of mass personal use injuries.

Local, State, and Federal government do it all the time and it doesn't take but a handful of injuries/complaints. The only reason the rental scooter companies have not been shutdown is they have a billion dollars worth of clout. Who will defend EUCs?

If 60 Minutes or any investigative reporter or consumer advocate, etc. was to gather a representative from Boosted Board, Bird/Lime, Jason of eWheels and ask the following question - "If someone is riding your product at 15 mph and the power fails unexpectedly, what would happen?" - it is safe to say the EUC would not come off as being the spearhead to a personal transport revolution for the public.

[Darrell Wesh]

42 minutes ago, Jerome said:

 

Local, State, and Federal government do it all the time and it doesn't take but a handful of injuries/complaints. The only reason the rental scooter companies have not been shutdown is they have a billion dollars worth of clout. Who will defend EUCs?

If 60 Minutes or any investigative reporter or consumer advocate, etc. was to gather a representative from Boosted Board, Bird/Lime, Jason of eWheels and ask the following question - "If someone is riding your product at 15 mph and the power fails unexpectedly, what would happen?" - it is safe to say the EUC would not come off as being the spearhead to a personal transport revolution for the public.

Please cite evidence of government banning commuter vehicles because of personal use injury.  The scooter companies are in no way being reprimanded because of personal injuries. The littering of units on public space is the primary concern and far down the list is complaints of hooligans running into innocent bystanders on the scooters which is NOT personal use injury. 

Like has been stated on these forums numerous times; the EUC’s of today are not going to just randomly cut out on you. The probability is infinitesimal. If a cutout is going to happen it’s going to happen from user error and not the machine arbitrarily deciding to crap out. 

[Nic]

4 hours ago, tenofnine said:

It supposedly is called a Skate Bike (unicycle), 1960's invention that was a Unicycle with training wheels. Just seems like a really bad tricycle to me.
It's also the first result in google images when you search "unicycle lol"

I think you are mistaken ... this guy has his braces caught in the wheel.

[pico]

6 hours ago, tenofnine said:

I

6 hours ago, tenofnine said:

  19 hours ago, pico said:

Sorry to tell you this, I read this is as a pretty aggressive statement...

This is a friendly board...

Don't feel sorry, everyone is entitled to imply anything when they read my statements.

On 3/4/2019 at 10:21 PM, tenofnine said:

I must either be a savant or that's a bit exaggerated

You choose! There are four possible answers. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:45 AM by pico 
 

You just ruled out two possibilities!   

 

[Mono]

13 hours ago, Jerome said:

We EUC riders have to deal with the above concerns plus be forever vigilant of the terrain where the slightest misconception, underestimation, or lapse in perception can lead to a serious injury. This danger does not go away no matter how many miles one has ridden or ones skill level.

Why would you think that? Of course nothing is with zero danger, but why would you think the danger does not depend on rider skills?

I am pretty sure that the risk of falling and of severe injuries hugely depends on the skill level of the rider and, of course, on their willingness and ability to adjust their speed to their skills (which could be considered a skill as well). So the danger will to a large degree "go away" for those who are able to improve their skills without increasing their speed or getting complacent.

That skills prevent accidents, if not accompanied with increased risk taking, is probably true for any physical activity, almost by definition.

[Mono]

15 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

The government isn’t going to ban EUC’s because of mass personal use injuries.

That might be so in the US. I am pretty sure that legislators in some countries closely follow injury rates and react upon them in some way or another. Reporting on injuries and fatalities also have a relevant influence on public opinion, which is usually also something democratically elected legislators care about at some point.

8 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Please cite evidence of government banning commuter vehicles because of personal use injury.

Not as a ban, but as legislative action, motorcycle helmet laws are those which come immediately in my mind. But then, any type approval law for vehicles bans all vehicles but those approved, usually mainly for safety concerns. Bicycles without two independent brakes are banned where I live, and the list goes on and on and on... So one could easily argue that most vehicles are banned (of course they are all out of our sight, as most people comply with the bans). Of course you can argue that most of these bans are to protect other people than the drivers themselves, which is true, but also a difficult distinction to make when allowing vehicles in densely populated areas, as accidents that injure drivers necessarily affect innocent bystanders with some relevant probability and vice versa.

9 hours ago, Jerome said:

Local, State, and Federal government do it all the time and it doesn't take but a handful of injuries/complaints. The only reason the rental scooter companies have not been shutdown is they have a billion dollars worth of clout. Who will defend EUCs?

I can't say who is defending EUCs, but I can say that several of European countries have legalized EUCs whether or not being defended.

[pst]

44 minutes ago, Mono said:

Why would you think that? Of course nothing is with zero danger, but why would you think the danger does not depend on rider skills?

I don't think they said it "did not depend on rider skills" but rather that "the danger does not go away no matter how skilled you are."  I think it's understood that someone with 3 hours of experience is more prone to injury than someone with 3 years of experience... but there are threads here with plenty of stories of experienced riders getting injured, sometimes seriously.  In fact, enough such threads that they started the "I had a good ride" thread specifically for the purpose of counteracting it.

To some degree this is true of anything, like even experienced people riding a motorcycle might hit a patch of loose dirt around a corner and go down.  But there is pretty much zero risk of a motorcycle arbitrarily stopping when scaling a steep hill and sending you over the handlebars face-first into the ground.  I think this is the key difference.

 

1 minute ago, Mono said:

But then, any type approval law for vehicles bans all vehicles but those approved, usually mainly for safety concerns.

Exactly - and even beyond being banned, there is a huge assortment of motor vehicle laws that a product must comply with strictly, to be considered legal to operate, generally put in place for the operator's own safety.  Seat belts or safety glass in cars come to mind.  These laws drive up the complexity/cost of the product.

And in the cases where the legal entities miss something, there's always the court of public opinion.... Pintos catching on fire when rear-ended (no harm to the other vehicle necessarily), Fieros catching on fire, Corvairs flipping in a corner or impaling the driver - these were only in very specific situations, but the reputation stuck.  Heck, even the battery problems on the Galaxy phones a few years ago.  None of these situations hurt other people, some were only in weird isolated use cases, but you can bet this had an impact on the viability of those products in the market, and future products were built (and sometimes mandated) to have safeguards against them.

 

[Mono]

1 hour ago, pst said:

I don't think they said it "did not depend on rider skills" but rather that "the danger does not go away no matter how skilled you are." 

Dangers do go away with increased skill level, which seems to be in conflict with the claim that the danger does not go away no matter how skilled you are, as this implies either that the danger does not depend on the skill or that there remains some non-zero danger on any skill level. The latter is a meaningless statement as there is always a residual danger whatever people do, including staying in bed all day long. Maybe it was just a matter of poor wording.

1 hour ago, pst said:

To some degree this is true of anything, like even experienced people riding a motorcycle might hit a patch of loose dirt around a corner and go down.  But there is pretty much zero risk of a motorcycle arbitrarily stopping when scaling a steep hill and sending you over the handlebars face-first into the ground.  I think this is the key difference.

But then this "key difference" is a meaningless difference. I am pretty sure that motorcycling with full protection gear is considerably more dangerous than EUCing without protection gear, when both is done on legal devices in Europe. Motorcycling is by far the most dangerous (legal) mode of transportation (maybe there are some fringe exceptions, like flying Cessnas, I am always happy to learn) and it is pretty inconceivable to me that EUCing kept below 25km/h could come even close to the fatality rates that we accept for motorcycling.

[Darrell Wesh]

It blows my mind, EUCS are the same thing as a motorcycle it doesnt make sense that motorcycles can be on the road but EUC’s can’t. If you fall on a motorcycle in traffic you’re probably dead, same as on an EUC (from getting run over). The EUC is just far slower and thus far safer as well as not having a hyper sensitive throttle that can propel you into danger. 

Just because you have a license doesn’t make you skilled at driving a motorcycle so you can’t argue that case. Most people who buy motorcycles buy it to take extreme risks (canyon runs, track days, splitting traffic etc). It just blows my mind that motorcyles are even legal on the public road with the almost guarantee of a life altering injury or fatality if you fall or impact. EUC falls at top speed are abrasion and maybe a broken bone. I wish they did a study on this but I’m almost positive that holding handlebars and falling increases your risk of hitting your head dramatically over being hands free and falling. 

Compared to bicycles, which are allowed on the roads, I’m sure everyone whose ever been behind an EUC is so thankful when they realize they don’t have to slowly drive behind one that’s blocking the entire one lane road. 

I’ve had people blow by me at 20mph over the speed limit racing to get in front of me at the red light because they think I’ll accelerate as slowly as a bicycle and get stuck behind me. Only for me to simply squeeze right in front of them and then proceed to accelerate faster than they cared to press the gas at the green light. 

[Mono]

37 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

It just blows my mind that motorcyles are even legal on the public road with the almost guarantee of a life altering injury or fatality if you fall or impact.

That's certainly not true. I know many people who have fallen from a motorbike, including myself on road and off road (mostly), without any significant, let alone life altering injuries.

[Darrell Wesh]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

That's certainly not true. I know many people who have fallen from a motorbike, including myself on road and off road, without any significant, let alone life altering injuries.

Well I mean without any gear, at the ridiculous speeds they travel at while on a vehicle with no safety around them like a car. 

[ir_fuel]

10 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

It blows my mind, EUCS are the same thing as a motorcycle it doesnt make sense that motorcycles can be on the road but EUC’s can’t. If you fall on a motorcycle in traffic you’re probably dead, same as on an EUC (from getting run over). The EUC is just far slower and thus far safer as well as not having a hyper sensitive throttle that can propel you into danger. 

depends on your definition of "on the road". Motorcycles do the same speeds as cars, making them a lot safer to be sharing the road with them.

[Darrell Wesh]

6 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

depends on your definition of "on the road". Motorcycles do the same speeds as cars, making them a lot safer to be sharing the road with them.

It’s not like you’ll see an EUC on the highway. Of course that’s not gonna happen. I did say traffic. An EUC is far safer in traffic than a motorcycle. Motorcyclists split lanes because they don’t want to get run over while in traffic (and the obvious, to save time)

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Well I mean without any gear 

There is no question that motorcycling is quite dangerous. But then, most of the times when I went down my helmet didn't touch anything. Once the helmet aggravated a strain on my neck muscles. Once the helmet did touch the ground, but I don't think it prevented a serious injury (but I couldn't be 100% sure). My gear most likely prevented some road rash, for sure on the hands, but I am not sure it ever prevented significant injury (maybe the boots did off road?). I also never fell above 60km/h, I think. Still, I would not go on a motorbike without a helmet and all.

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

Motorcycles do the same speeds as cars, making them a lot safer to be sharing the road with them.

The data say otherwise.