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Will the EUC be the Transporation Revolution that the Segway fail to achieve?


Hsiang

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I bought my Inmotion V5f for $550 free shipping , no tax, bunch of extras, etc (as we all know). That EUC is probably way too capable for a kid or beginner, but that price is already so low and that's with a middle man selling it to me with branding, import, overhead, and marketing. This very capable EUC is on par with how much those crappy exploding chinese toy Hoverboards cost at their height in popularity. There are also even cheaper EUCs available online right now, the only thing keeping these things from hitting the masses is availability. Because of things like the Hoverboard catastrophe places like Wal-Mart and Amazon are reticent to carry anything like this, that's the bottleneck. The price is already not a factor in my opinion and Electric Unis aren't even being mass produced yet (this is amazing to me how cheap they are already).

For example the IPS a130 turbo on eWheels is only $450 right now. I know parents that easily blow more than that at Christmas time or birthdays. In this day and age in America $450 is pocket change. Hell that's like 3 Lego sets, a gaming console with games/controllers,  a crappy Power Wheels jeep, or some dollhouses. Yea kids don't have money, but their parents do.

I paid $650 + tax for my intermediate level Diamondback mountain bike, it weighs a bit more than my V5F but has far less utility unless I'm climbing an insane hiking trail or mountain course. After all was said and done it was about $150 more (costs even more now), if I could I would go back in time and get an EUC instead of that Mountain bike I would. This is probably the most satisfied I've been with any purchase I've made in my life dollar for dollar.

I guess I don't really understand your remark about prices climbing faster than inflation. Prices have always been adjusted for local market and import fees. The only jump I've seen is the Mten3 jumping up in price (still worth it IMO even with it's long-term problems). I mean the Solowheel and it's extreme version were $1800 and $2200....and the Segway PT was $6500. In my opinion these things are dirt cheap now for what you get and the fact that they aren't mass produced.

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49 minutes ago, tenofnine said:


I bought my Inmotion V5f for $550 free shipping , no tax, bunch of extras, etc (as we all know). That EUC is probably way too capable for a kid or beginner, but that price is already so low and that's with a middle man selling it to me with branding, import, overhead, and marketing. This very capable EUC is on par with how much those crappy exploding chinese toy Hoverboards cost at their height in popularity. There are also even cheaper EUCs available online right now, the only thing keeping these things from hitting the masses is availability. Because of things like the Hoverboard catastrophe places like Wal-Mart and Amazon are reticent to carry anything like this, that's the bottleneck. The price is already not a factor in my opinion and Electric Unis aren't even being mass produced yet (this is amazing to me how cheap they are already).

For example the IPS a130 turbo on eWheels is only $450 right now. I know parents that easily blow more than that at Christmas time or birthdays. In this day and age in America $450 is pocket change. Hell that's like 3 Lego sets, a gaming console with games/controllers,  a crappy Power Wheels jeep, or some dollhouses. Yea kids don't have money, but their parents do.

I paid $650 + tax for my intermediate level Diamondback mountain bike, it weighs a bit more than my V5F but has far less utility unless I'm climbing an insane hiking trail or mountain course. After all was said and done it was about $150 more (costs even more now), if I could I would go back in time and get an EUC instead of that Mountain bike I would. This is probably the most satisfied I've been with any purchase I've made in my life dollar for dollar.

I guess I don't really understand your remark about prices climbing faster than inflation. Prices have always been adjusted for local market and import fees. The only jump I've seen is the Mten3 jumping up in price (still worth it IMO even with it's long-term problems). I mean the Solowheel and it's extreme version were $1800 and $2200....and the Segway PT was $6500. In my opinion these things are dirt cheap now for what you get and the fact that they aren't mass produced.

Kids can learn the hover board in 10 minutes. And teach all their friends in one day. But an EUC would take a couple days to a week to learn. It would be such a slow process to teach all their friends especially if you only have one to pass around. Combine that with the feeling of impossibility when you can’t even stand on the thing for two seconds and when you do you have no idea how to get off without scratching up the EUC by letting it fall in a dramatic display of extended tumbling. A hover board you can at least creep along really slow your first try and step off without damaging it. 

Kids wont be smart enough to have the EUC padded up, so they won’t be happy about teaching others when they remember the last time Brian tried and cracked the shell now held together by gorilla tape. The parents won’t be happy either being the ones who bought such an expensive “toy” 

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57 minutes ago, tenofnine said:


I bought my Inmotion V5f for $550 free shipping , no tax, bunch of extras, etc (as we all know). That EUC is probably way too capable for a kid or beginner, but that price is already so low and that's with a middle man selling it to me with branding, import, overhead, and marketing. This very capable EUC is on par with how much those crappy exploding chinese toy Hoverboards cost at their height in popularity. There are also even cheaper EUCs available online right now, the only thing keeping these things from hitting the masses is availability. Because of things like the Hoverboard catastrophe places like Wal-Mart and Amazon are reticent to carry anything like this, that's the bottleneck. The price is already not a factor in my opinion and Electric Unis aren't even being mass produced yet (this is amazing to me how cheap they are already).

For example the IPS a130 turbo on eWheels is only $450 right now. I know parents that easily blow more than that at Christmas time or birthdays. In this day and age in America $450 is pocket change. Hell that's like 3 Lego sets, a gaming console with games/controllers,  a crappy Power Wheels jeep, or some dollhouses. Yea kids don't have money, but their parents do.

I paid $650 + tax for my intermediate level Diamondback mountain bike, it weighs a bit more than my V5F but has far less utility unless I'm climbing an insane hiking trail or mountain course. After all was said and done it was about $150 more (costs even more now), if I could I would go back in time and get an EUC instead of that Mountain bike I would. This is probably the most satisfied I've been with any purchase I've made in my life dollar for dollar.

I guess I don't really understand your remark about prices climbing faster than inflation. Prices have always been adjusted for local market and import fees. The only jump I've seen is the Mten3 jumping up in price (still worth it IMO even with it's long-term problems). I mean the Solowheel and it's extreme version were $1800 and $2200....and the Segway PT was $6500. In my opinion these things are dirt cheap now for what you get and the fact that they aren't mass produced.

When I bought my first wheel 2-1/2 years ago, I bought the highest performance wheel available - the ACM. I paid $1300

The closest available wheel now is the Tesla, for $150 more. The MSX, a better but not dramatically different wheel than the MSuper V3s+, is about $500 more. Same battery capacity, shell, etc.

There's certainly no sign that wheels are getting cheaper. Seems like the top-of-the-line wheels now are over $2k

 

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1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Kids can learn the hover board in 10 minutes. And teach all their friends in one day. But an EUC would take a couple days to a week to learn. It would be such a slow process to teach all their friends especially if you only have one to pass around. Combine that with the feeling of impossibility when you can’t even stand on the thing for two seconds and when you do you have no idea how to get off without scratching up the EUC by letting it fall in a dramatic display of extended tumbling. A hover board you can at least creep along really slow your first try and step off without damaging it. 

Kids wont be smart enough to have the EUC padded up, so they won’t be happy about teaching others when they remember the last time Brian tried and cracked the shell now held together by gorilla tape. The parents won’t be happy either being the ones who bought such an expensive “toy” 

 I've seen these thing abused, flipping end over end, off large drops and stairs, etc. Even the IPS models for as cheap as they can get....can take quite a beating. Meanwhile Hoverboards were exploding into flames quite regularly and twitching like they were possessed by a demon for no apparent reason. Guess parents were happy with that?

I think you might be underestimating how fast and fearless kids are at learning something they really like. I could always be wrong about all this but an electric unicycle is so much more capable and versatile than a hoverboard. Kids pick up on that stuff and they tend to like "toys" that can also be useful beyond being just a plaything, they see adults legitimately using them and that adds appeal too I'm sure (like biking and skateboarding). Within 20 minutes I could already do big slow figure eights before having to bail, And after a few hours I could do things that I wouldn't be able to do on a hoverboard in a year. I think the learning curve is very steep but very abrupt, you see people doing smooth effortless riding and tricks and you know it's possible if you stick with it for a little while. That seems so much more appealing than how doofy and unsure people look on a hoverboards even after a year or 2 of riding. That's just my 2 cents though.

I recently trained someone by using my bike for them to hold onto as they rolled around on my V5F. They didn't fall once or add any scratches at all to my machine. This is partly because I taught them on that awesome hard pressed rubber surface at my local playground, but also because having the bike as an assist exponentially increases confidence and kills the learning curve. In less time than it took me they were coasting around solo.

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10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The problem is that EUCs are expensive. Many (most) people would put them in the category of a luxury purchase.

Yes, kids and young adults are fearless and more adept at picking up new skills such as riding an EUC. What they lack is money.

We shall see, but I'm putting my money on niche-forever :)

No, you're putting your money INTO the niche, no holds barred.

Oh! Shiny! Me wants needs it! ;) 

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7 hours ago, tenofnine said:

I recently trained someone by using my bike for them to hold onto as they rolled around on my V5F. They didn't fall once or add any scratches at all to my machine.

Presumably you were on said bicycle?

People of all ages learn astonishingly fast if they hold onto another person on a bicycle (my preferred method), most often wobbling then suddenly getting how it all works.

This article is a good summary in why electrics (except electric cars) won't be revolutionary for quite some time, as the cost of cars is heavily subsidized.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/03/06/heres-how-driving-is-encouraged-and-subsidized-by-law/

--Traffic Laws Soft-Peddle Very Dangerous Behavior

--Land Use Laws Favor Sprawl

--Legal Parking Requirements Subsidize Driving

--Emissions Laws Exempt ‘Light Trucks’

--Emissions Laws Ignore the Environmental Costs of Roadbuilding

--Vehicle Safety Regulations Ignore Pedestrians

--Vehicle Safety Regulations Allow Unsafe Aftermarket Vehicle Modifications, vehicle regulations also inexplicably ignore a whole range of aftermarket modifications that can worsen safety, especially for vulnerable users pickupsand SUVs — to affix “bull bars,” metal reinforcement rods, to the front ends of their vehicles. Child pedestrians hit by a car with bull bars at 10 to 15 times more likely to be killed, one study found.

--Insurance Law Limits Payouts to Pedestrians

--Tax Law Subsidizes Sprawl

--Tort Law Protects Dangerous Drivers

--Contract Law Freezes Out Pedestrians, criminalLaw Rarely Punishes Dangerous Drivers 2015 study [PDF] by the New York-based advocacy group Transportation Alternatives found that 99 percent of drivers involved in hit-and-run crashes were not charged by New York City’s five district attorneys.

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9 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

There's certainly no sign that wheels are getting cheaper. Seems like the top-of-the-line wheels now are over $2k

Depends on how you look at things.

When I started out (and that is really not long ago), for 350 euro you had nothing worthy of being called an "EUC". Some generic shit wheel that could do 15km/h for 10km, while beeping all the time because you were on the limit at 15km/h.

Last week I bought a brand new Inmotion V5F for .... 350 euro.

From that point of view I do think they get cheaper. And for someone who has never touched one of those things in their life, the V5F is a very nice entry into the EUC world. It will give them a good impression of what EUC is about, compared to some crappy generic.

And then the sky is the limit ... you can go from the Mten3 all the way up to the Monster.

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5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The problem is that EUCs are expensive. Many (most) people would put them in the category of a luxury purchase.

Yes, kids and young adults are fearless and more adept at picking up new skills such as riding an EUC. What they lack is money.

We shall see, but I'm putting my money on niche-forever :)

EUCs "are expensive", but they don't need to be if they are meant to be used as short distance commuter or for kids. I don't see any reason why EUCs need to be more expensive than electric bicycles which are by no measure a luxury niche product anymore (though somewhat crazy expensive, like many bicycles). However, EUCs need to become even cheaper and they can.

We often forget that EUCs have quite different use-cases. EUCs for 50+km weekend tours are more expensive and more likely to remain niche products than EUCs for kids or for mixed commutes. An EUC for kids should even be cheaper to produce than a hoverboard.

In the end, the crucial factor is whether learning to ride an EUC is seen as part of the standard skill set kids should acquire, like we assume all kids should learn how to swim or how to ride a bicycle. This has happen to bicycles, so it can happen to EUCs. This is however not likely to be decided within the next five years, though we may see some local trends.

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2 hours ago, LanghamP said:

This article is a good summary in why electrics (except electric cars) won't be revolutionary for quite some time, as the cost of cars is heavily subsidized.

Should probably read why electrics (except electric cars) won't be revolutionary for quite some time in the US of America.

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1 hour ago, Mono said:

I don't see any reason why EUCs need to be more expensive than electric bicycles which are by no measure a luxury niche product anymore

A good electric bicycle costs more than 1000 euro.

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In many places it is rare to see a bicycle let alone a EUC. Most people that ride bicycles often don't bother as they get lazy or don't wan't to shower after every ride. They use a bicycle as transport more than for fun. People that have learned to ride a EUC enjoy riding them and don't want to give up riding a EUC. Problem is price and difficulty learning. Most see them as a fun but not essential device ... until they ride one and are hooked. Many know they are not legal to ride and there are almost no places promoting or selling them. I am convinced mass adoption will follow after EUCs become legal and more people are seen riding them and shops selling them. Everyone that rides a EUC loves them, so why would they not become popular. The thing is you don't miss what you never had and getting people buy a EUC will take some convincing given how expensive they are.

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4 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

A good electric bicycle costs more than 1000 euro.

I know. A good car costs ten times as much, yet it's also not considered a luxury niche product by any possible meaning of the word, I would think. There are just way too many people in this world you can effort and do spend 1000 or 10000 EUR on an utterly useful product once in a while.

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2 minutes ago, Mono said:

I know. A good car costs ten times as much, yet it's also not considered a luxury niche product by any possible meaning of the word, I would think. There are just way too many people in this world you can effort and do spend 1000 or 10000 EUR on an utterly useful product once in a while.

Especially electric bikes. A friend of mine is a big manufacturer and it's the product for which people easily pay 1500-2500 euros without asking questions.

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52 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Especially electric bikes ... people easily pay 1500-2500 euros without asking questions.

Middle aged people with disposable income.

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13 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Presumably you were on said bicycle?

People of all ages learn astonishingly fast if they hold onto another person on a bicycle (my preferred method), most often wobbling then suddenly getting how it all works.

No I just let him hold onto the bike handlebars by himself and the bike rolled and turned along with him as he balanced and moved on the V5F. IMO it makes the perfect moving crutch for learning, I wish I had done it when I was learning.

I haven't tried riding while they hold on, that to me seems less helpful but I'll have to try it before I decide which is better.

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5 hours ago, Nic said:

I am convinced mass adoption will follow after EUCs become legal and more people are seen riding them and shops selling them.

What im hoping for this is that there is a smooth transition into the usage and popularity of our beloved euc's. Rather than going the hoverboard route where it blew up overnight and tons of get-rich-quick companies popped up offering "THE BEST RIDE!" then exploding in the garage overnight. That theres a progression of growth after legalization. Was it switzerland? I remember watching this "first group ride" video, and there were 2 little kids in the group. A girl and a boy having the time of their life. Loved that video, haha,. But anyways, all of their wheels had license plates on them. I don't know if thats the right way to go for every country, but I wouldnt mind having to register my wheel or having insurance. Or having a certification of some sort to be able to ride on the road. And with that type of care taken, i could see more people thinking before getting them. More people respecting them. And more of a thought out flow to their growth. Not just "Look at this toy! I want one!!!"  0 bars to pass. Crashes into a house. At the moment, we're all pretty careful because we know we're at the publics mercy. One public screw up could lead to disaster to all riders in our countries. Make that positive and less fear based and bam. 

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2 hours ago, seage said:

What im hoping for this is that there is a smooth transition into the usage and popularity of our beloved euc's. Rather than going the hoverboard route where it blew up overnight and tons of get-rich-quick companies popped up offering "THE BEST RIDE!" then exploding in the garage overnight. That theres a progression of growth after legalization. Was it switzerland? I remember watching this "first group ride" video, and there were 2 little kids in the group. A girl and a boy having the time of their life. Loved that video, haha,. But anyways, all of their wheels had license plates on them. I don't know if thats the right way to go for every country, but I wouldnt mind having to register my wheel or having insurance. Or having a certification of some sort to be able to ride on the road. And with that type of care taken, i could see more people thinking before getting them. More people respecting them. And more of a thought out flow to their growth. Not just "Look at this toy! I want one!!!"  0 bars to pass. Crashes into a house. At the moment, we're all pretty careful because we know we're at the publics mercy. One public screw up could lead to disaster to all riders in our countries. Make that positive and less fear based and bam. 

I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

Legalization of this level will result in increased costs, both for devices and "running costs" (tax, insurance) and we will be subjected to heaps of stupid regulations because people can't behave themselves and laws are always written with the most stupid in mind, while all others have their freedom restricted because of said stupidity.

I'd rather it stay a niche, so we get left alone.

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1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

Legalization of this level will result in increased costs, both for devices and "running costs" (tax, insurance) and we will be subjected to heaps of stupid regulations because people can't behave themselves and laws are always written with the most stupid in mind, while all others have their freedom restricted because of said stupidity.

I'd rather it stay a niche, so we get left alone.

I see your point. I still wish there was SOMETHING  to make things clearer so we didnt have folks getting fined because the wind was blowing from the east that morning/

My point about growth really is just so that the industry can stay afloat. I actually do kind of enjoy that this is a niche, I just hope theres enough interest to keep the industry going for a long time. But more that, if it IS to happen, and things suddenly became mainstream, that it happens differently than with hoverboards, or else we'll be joining them in the banned bin. Although I honestly doubt that will happen. Just, at end of the day, id rather jump through loops than lose all rights. 

You are right though, about laws. It would suck. 

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1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

And the difference with hoverboards is that those really are a toy. Does anyone (even if they don't explode) use one of those for longer than a week? Or to actually go places?

Honestly now. Ive seen 2 in the wild. One we briskly walked by as he struggled to get up a curb with a coffee in his hand. Looked ridiculous. And another was this guy all dressed up, "dancing" on a subway platform. zooming backwards and forwards and in circles, blasting music from a bluetooth speaker. I saw him outside after carving down the sidewalk. Was the last time I ever saw one.

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2 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

I'd rather it stay a niche, so we get left alone.

That's also where my personal preference has changed to by now. Unfortunately, the world doesn't care much about our personal preferences. I collected some data in Paris: I counted 1000 bicycles, 240 kick scooters, 25 EUCs, 14 skateboards, and 2 hoverboards. That is, as of autumn 2018, EUCs make 10% of the kick scooters which seem to be all over the place.

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/11772-traffic-count-of-light-vehicles/?tab=comments#comment-196583

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

And the difference with hoverboards is that those really are a toy. Does anyone (even if they don't explode) use one of those for longer than a week? Or to actually go places?

Exactly! Of course, toy is fine too, I use my EUC quite often as a toy as well. The point being that it is not only a toy.

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6 hours ago, tenofnine said:

No I just let him hold onto the bike handlebars by himself and the bike rolled and turned along with him as he balanced and moved on the V5F. IMO it makes the perfect moving crutch for learning, I wish I had done it when I was learning.

What? to cut your learning time time from 15 minutes to 5 minutes?  Yeah, I feel for you man; that's 10 minutes of your life you'll never get back.:rolleyes:

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6 hours ago, tenofnine said:

No I just let him hold onto the bike handlebars by himself and the bike rolled and turned along with him as he balanced and moved on the V5F.

I don't quite get it, can you explain how this works more specifically? Does he have both hands on the handlebars or only one hand? Does he have to keep the bicycle balanced himself?

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1 hour ago, Mono said:

I don't quite get it, can you explain how this works more specifically? Does he have both hands on the handlebars or only one hand? Does he have to keep the bicycle balanced himself?

You can do it 2 ways - 

Both hands on each handlebar, or just one hand in the middle of the handlebar using like a mobile wall to lean your weight on.

 

 

2 hours ago, Smoother said:

What? to cut your learning time time from 15 minutes to 5 minutes?  Yeah, I feel for you man; that's 10 minutes of your life you'll never get back.:rolleyes:

Hey man sorry it might have taken you a few month to learn. The woman Michael Paolini taught on camera learned in under 60 minutes with no action sports experience. I have been skateboarding for half my life and done snow sports quite a bit, that contributed to my expedited learning I imagine.

So roll your eyes all you like, be childish and negative. I just wish I had used to Bike so I wouldn't have scratched up my EUC learning the initial free mount, that's why I mentioned it.

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