reverse How to learn reverse riding

[Unventor]

Okay so here goes. I decided that this spring I am going to learn to thing. 

1) Stepping on and off with non-dominant leg.

2) Reverse riding 20m or about 60'. Then I take it from there...

I have been watching some videos off this, but one thing that is hardly covered is suggestions once you have learned to do this what people can pass on to make it easier and to avoid major injuries.

So it should be obvious that if you are fully geared up you might hurt yourself less, but it can lead to being less agile so...

Next thing what wherl do you suggest and why, and which would you not recommend and why?

So why do I want to learn step 1? Answer I figure it might be useful to know before hoing to step 2. To me that means to build up balance and muscles to do this. This is due to my physical shape is rock buttom since my osteoarthritis and psoriatic arthritis in knees and hip and lower back. 

But my attitude to this new challenge: I choose to do this not because it is easy but because it is hard, and I will grow and benafit from this.

(I seem to recall a dude saying somthing similar about going to the moon, yes I am almost that old or the statement is just so true and famous that it rang to the next generation too).

So heres comes the questions I hope can get answers that help me and others.

 * Best choice of wheel, size, brand and why?

 * What you would not use?

 * Any aids that can help, wall, fench, broom what ever you found usefull?

* Any protection you should or should not use? I can't see me doing this without a helmet.

 * Please share any video you have that helped you or you made.

 * Surrunging that can help? Eg a small decline kind of leading you in the direction you want to go or better at a level gound? Asphalt vs grass?

Now I know thete are a lot out thete on youtube, but this is why I asked for a new main page for learning section and a place people can post progress as they learn new tricks or skills. I know this is going to be hard to learn, so I am going to film this and post videos for others that want to learn and to gain encouragement when it seems too hard. 

Ohh yes this is an accident waiting to happen....

[Unventor]

As it stands right now I only have a KS18L with large pedals to train on. But that should be fine for step 1.

[mrelwood]

This could grow really long, so I summarize a lot. So... reverse riding. What has worked best for me:

- Flat surface of fine gravel that doesn’t sink. Easier to turn on than asphalt, and flatter than grass.

- Wrist and elbow guards first, a must! No way you wouldn’t try to stop a fall without your hands.

- A small wheel is very nimble, but you also have to make a lot of precise corrections. Since you are only starting to learn to make the corrections, you also might find an MSX easier than a 16S.

Lessons:

- Ride forward, stop, continue forward. Then stop for a bit longer. Then go 10cm backwards during the stop. Then 20cm. Etc. As you get to metres, what helps me is not trying to go straight, but in a slight slalom motion.

- Watch @Rama Douglas’s videos on dancing with an EUC. An eye opener for me on how to make corrective manoeuvres while being almost still.

- Zigzag sideways. Forward right 1 metre, backwards right 1 metre, etc. Then to the left. Helps in learning corrective manoeuvres.

As you see, these are not purely for reverse riding, but for learning a better balance overall. I should also note that I’m not very good at reversing. But the above methods are what started my learning process.

Edit: Rama Douglas dancing on an EUC:

 

[Flying W]

I am by no means proficient yet but I can go in reverse for as I want if there are no obstacles (currently in my practicing I'm trying to look behind me without turning) and I can make 3 point turns with my preferred side better. 

So far the best benefit durring a ride is being able to back up if something gets caught in the wheel like a leaf or twig. 

The 2 pieces of advice that I can give is to watch @Marty Backe's video series where he goes from not riding reverse at all to doing very well. I think its 9 separate videos. I tried it his way. But for what ever reason it worked better for me if I went forward and then backwards (half of idle) rather than starting from a standstill using something like he did with his truck. 

No matter what wheel size pump up that tire! It's way easier to make slight twisting correction with high air pressure. 

I started on my crappy 132wh freeman since I knew I'd be jumping off a lot. It's a 14 and very easy to over lean. The pedals are also very low so my heals would hit if I leaned too far causing a surprise get off. Basically the hardest one to learn in but indont want to mess up my nicer wheels.  

I look forward to seeing your videos! 

[LanghamP]

Unfortunately the faster you go the easier it is to ride the EUC, but unlike bailing going forward a bail going backwards at speed means you're landing on your heels. There is no running off a bail going backwards like you can going forward although you might get away with a quick twist. The most hurt I have ever been was a backwards bail that saw me crawling up steps for a week I was so badly hurt. I think I had to put my wheels away for a whole month just to get healed.

Learning backwards is pretty easy as you'll just transition naturally from doing ever slower and longer yoyo (back and forth in place). I'd go so far as to suggest don't even bother practicing going backwards but just keep extending your yo-yos until you can gracefully transition into riding backwards for some distance, and then before you need to step off for whatever reason you reverse your wheel to forward travel.

Be extremely wary during the reversal as those moments are the highest wattage draw I've seen in a wheel. The forces involved to reverse both wheel and rider are tremendous, easily enough to drop you on slightly slippery surfaces.

[Unventor]

@KujiRolls I saw some of your latest videos. Do mind sharing a tip or two on how you got so skilled at reverse riding? 

[Mono]

If you can't, learn how to look behind you before to travel more than a very short distance backwards. Just going a little backwards each time when I stopped and increasing the distance worked for me without further effort (but with patience). By now I have been going backwards probably more than 100km (if half-eights count). I don't dare to go fast (maybe around 10km/h), as I don't see how I can make the running off work backwards at speed  I have been falling a few times, lately more often than not during backwards riding, but usually in practice or play sessions where falling is somewhat anticipated. I don't wear protection gear (above and beyond winter gloves), but no harm done. I try to stay low enough such that I can step off and get one foot on the ground at all times before I fall.

[Darrell Wesh]

I learned in a school parking lot on my INMOTION v5. Quite proficient at backward riding, one legged backwards riding, turns, looking over shoulder etc. 

I thought that going backwards in a straight line was the hardest thing. The amount of small corrections you have to make is incredible not to mention you MUST master looking behind you to ride in a straight line backwards. You’re an idiot if you can’t look behind you but are traveling backwards. 

The problem with looking backwards and riding backwards is the turn of your shoulder will cause you to turn the wheel. 

This is why I believe you must first learn riding backwards by learning TURNING while going backwards. 

Turning backwards naturally rotates your shoulders and allows you to see what’s behind you.

I started off by going forward slowly and then leaning to go backward. I don’t think it’s a good idea even today to just start backwards without first going forward. 

Once the wheel is moving backwards start turning! You will have a side that’s easier to turn backwards on as you did when you were going forward. Try to make a circle. 

Once you can adequately and reliably transition from forwards to backwards and make this reverse circle on both sides then by then something will have “clicked” and you will find that you can go backwards in a straight line while turning your head to look backwards. Your body will understand how to make the small corrections necessary to stay straight from all the reverse turns you did. 

My friend does not know how to make a reverse circle while going backwards and can not look backwards and ride in a straight line. Guess what his backward riding is like? 

He can go backwards forever but he can’t see where he’s going. Pointless. 

 

[Unventor]

I am going to use this skill, reversing, to get a better position at traffic lights/crossings/round abouts when I don't make it at green or like left turns. It is not to go wast distance in traffic or freestyle tricks. Others might have different goals. Eventually I like to be able to do penduluming or idling. But that is stage 3 for me.

[Flying W]

3 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Be extremely wary during the reversal as those moments are the highest wattage draw I've seen in a wheel. The forces involved to reverse both wheel and rider are tremendous, easily enough to drop you on slightly slippery surfaces.

The only time I've had my pedals go soft on the mcm5 was when I was going from reverse to forward way too aggressively.  It's easy to lean really far going from reverse to forward and definitely asks a lot from the EUC.

[eddiemoy]

Find a wall and push off of the wall going backwards.  Work up to slightly faster than walking.  Time under tension is what your brain needs to figure it out.  Just like going forward, the slower you go the harder it is.  You need speed to generate the gyro force to stay upright.  You will lose balance and step off.  It is definitely scarier to go backwards.  In the beginning I got dizzy.  

Another technique is the same as front mounting, but in reverse.  Push hop backwards.  Little less stable.  Suggest trying pushing off the wall first.  Get up on your wheel stabilize then push off so you are going backwards.  Make sure there is nothing behind you as you will not be able to look behind you yet.  That comes later when it clicks.  Then as with forward riding you need to learn to turn all over again and looking behind you is another skill. 

Good luck, just remember the fear you felt when learning to go forward.  It didn’t take long to learn going forward, shouldn’t take you that long to learn backwards.   

[gon2fast]

When looking back to assess traffic or turning while riding backwards I would suggest always aiming your chin at your shoulders and pushing back at the joint too prevent unintentional wheel turn. 

 

 

[Smoother]

19 hours ago, Unventor said:

my osteoarthritis and psoriatic arthritis in knees and hip and lower back. 

@Unventor, Are you sure the benefits of riding backwards are worth the risks of aggravating your conditions?  Someone recently posted a severely bruised hip from practicing backwards, and I gave my rump a good thump a while back practicing backwards.  Someone also did serious damage to their knee ligaments coming off forwards during a turn that twisted it badly on landing (something we try to do when coming off backwards). And @LanghamP description of "crawling up steps for a week I was so badly hurt" is chilling.,

So I ask again, is the small, real world gain beneficial, compared to the medical risks in your case?  Hips, knees and lower back are all in the firing line.  Some things are just better left to the young and or adventurous.  When Kennedy made his "but because it is hard" speech, it wasn't his butt being fired into space was it!

[Unventor]

@Smoother thanks for your concern 🙂 

But as I stated, I choose to do this as it seems hard, mot because it is simple 😄

People at my work said I couldn't ride a EUC in my condition, yes almost 1 year later I have 1550 km on my belt, and of course a few battle scars to show.

You saw my post yesterday of my 28k ride. That helped me throught a day of conference sitdown and listening. 

So challenge is set, for this spring and summer. 😎

 

[Smoother]

17 minutes ago, Unventor said:

@Smoother thanks for your concern 🙂 

But as I stated, I choose to do this as it seems hard, mot because it is simple 😄

People at my work said I couldn't ride a EUC in my condition, yes almost 1 year later I have 1550 km on my belt, and of course a few battle scars to show.

You saw my post yesterday of my 28k ride. That helped me throught a day of conference sitdown and listening. 

So challenge is set, for this spring and summer. 😎

 

Good.  Just wanted you to see a 3rd party perspective of your individual situation.  It would have been remiss of me not to share my concern. Best of luck, keep us posted.

[Unventor]

I can almost guarantee funny video and pictures of injuries. 🤪

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

@Unventor, Are you sure the benefits of riding backwards are worth the risks of aggravating your conditions?  Someone recently posted a severely bruised hip from practicing backwards, and I gave my rump a good thump a while back practicing backwards.  Someone also did serious damage to their knee ligaments coming off forwards during a turn that twisted it badly on landing (something we try to do when coming off backwards). And @LanghamP description of "crawling up steps for a week I was so badly hurt" is chilling.,

So I ask again, is the small, real world gain beneficial, compared to the medical risks in your case?  Hips, knees and lower back are all in the firing line.  Some things are just better left to the young and or adventurous.  When Kennedy made his "but because it is hard" speech, it wasn't his butt being fired into space was it!

I have been riding for almost a year now and still haven’t found any benefit to gling backwards besides just to “show off” like pedestrians put it. 

Once you can learn 180 degree twists on the spot there is hardly any benefit to going backward. 

[stephen]

I've bought a Z10 I'm going to learn to go backwards on that  its a bit more robust than my msx also

[Mike Sacristan]

When I force my friends to try my Ninebot One E+ down in the basement I always do a sympathy run by either going backwards or on one leg.
The basement has a looooong hallway. The hardest part was just finding footing and positioning my body properly. It sucked a lot of energy out of me.
After 3 or 4 sessions in the basement I tried a bit outdoors.
Riding backwards requires me to do a lot of correcting and correcting while riding backwards was very difficult.

I still have a long way to go but the worst part is over.

 

[LanghamP]

I will say very amusing things happen when you're riding backwards and then "cross the controls", that is, you turn the wheel in the exact opposite you're supposed to. The correct direction to point your wheel when going forward is exactly the wrong direction when going backwards.

To compound confusion, tilting the wheel isn't reversed when going backwards, and is the correct response regardless of which direction. Which means if you can ride a small wheel by tilting then you might not be able to ride a big wheel by twisting.

The above silliness is all academic; you have to practice practice practice, and what seems impossible becomes like an extension of your body after the 1000th time.

Probably a rider who only went forward without ever learning to do yoyos would have a more difficult time going backwards since something learned really well (forwards) gets ever harder to relearn.

[pico]

On 2/3/2019 at 4:35 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

My friend does not know how to make a reverse circle while going backwards and can not look backwards and ride in a straight line. Guess what his backward riding is like? 

He can go backwards forever but he can’t see where he’s going. Pointless. 

 

Your friend will get there. Give him time to have his brain figuring it out. We don't all learn at the same rate...

 

I kept things simple for my GF to be sure she never hurt herself and get discouraged. She has fallen only ONCE so far... (in the beginning)

I suggested prerequisites and everything followed naturally. The sequence:

Learning ALL the ways to turn (except 180 deg twist), Consistent dismounts and mounts. Carving. Single foot riding, both legs. Crouching low on the wheel to be good at differential pressure foot steering. Super slow riding without dismounting. Riding in grass. Idling. 

Then yoyo's near a  wall, then away from the wall, both directions.  She once did so many in a row(despite my warnings) that she fried the X3 , I had to change a MOSFET.

What helped her the most was my shoulder serving as a walking resting/saving post while she started moving backwards. At first I held her in the seating position suggested by Hirsute to stabilize her at entry and alleviate fear.

She bailed out of the wheel with abandonment to save her legs first and avoid falling.

Then one inch at a time she got there. Slowly but surely.

All I know is that this worked for her. YMMV.

 

p.s. Be no means do I encourage using an X3 if you are over 130 lbs. I actually wish that me and her we both started with a ninebot one E rather than X3 then V5F. But that's another story.

 

[Beowolve]

Ok, here is what I can remember from this summer.

I started learning to ride backwards after about 100km training (about 1month into euc driving). First of all I don't think you should start try moving in circles backwards, thats more difficult and can be learned later. Just learn it where you have a lot of space and where you don't need to look behind you all the time. As allready mentioned you will turn as soon as you try to look behind you.

So how did I learn it. First I allways started from a normal forward motion, and from that transitioned into a backwards move by slowly breaking and just continued until I moved backwards.
I made a much bigger progress when I started to twist the wheel left and right while moving backwards on purpose. It did stabalize me quite a bit and with more practice you automatically minimize this twists. I don't if that is the right term to decribe it. Its like you do it on a bicycle if you try to balance it when you stand still with it, if you know what I mean.

When I started turning while riding backwars I found it white counterintuitive the way you have to look. You allways look at the outside of the circle you wanna drive. But I wanted to look inside the circle. So far that isn't something I can do, don't know if that is even possible without an expert level.

Also I think it should be something that someone riding euc should learn quite early on, it makes you a much better rider and many maneuver variations are suddenly possible.

[Scatcat]

I tried the "stepping on and off with my non-dominant leg". I can step off alright, but it turns out my old meniscus damage from the first little accident I had still makes my left knee weaker than the right in the sideways direction. That means it feels like the left knee is made of jello when I try to mount with the left foot first. It is not something I notice while riding, it is only when mounting and stepping off.

I've been pushing weights with my left leg in the gym now for some time, and hope to build up my strength to the point where I can trust my left leg as much as my right one.

[Mono]

3 hours ago, Beowolve said:

When I started turning while riding backwars I found it white counterintuitive the way you have to look. You allways look at the outside of the circle you wanna drive. But I wanted to look inside the circle. So far that isn't something I can do, don't know if that is even possible without an expert level.

I think it's only a matter of conditioning. I always found it odd to look and turn the body to the outside, so I never did this but looked to the inside instead and learned to make circles just fine this way. Only for aggressive turns I turn the upper body first and let the hip follow and snap back.

[mrelwood]

17 hours ago, Scatcat said:

I tried the "stepping on and off with my non-dominant leg". I can step off alright, but it turns out my old meniscus damage from the first little accident I had still makes my left knee weaker than the right in the sideways direction. That means it feels like the left knee is made of jello when I try to mount with the left foot first. It is not something I notice while riding, it is only when mounting and stepping off.

I've been pushing weights with my left leg in the gym now for some time, and hope to build up my strength to the point where I can trust my left leg as much as my right one.

Same here, although I don’t have a damage as an excuse. Left leg is supposed to be stronger with right-legged people, but I don’t know man. Mine is jello. Gave up.