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Flyboy10

Remind me why a KS 18XL is worth the price...

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Starting to make payments for the 18 xl but every night I fall asleep thinking how much money I'm spending on a unicycle when cheaper ones go just as fast and far. I wouldn't call it buyers remorse, especially since I don't even have it yet. 

Any words of encouragement or testimonials to reassure me that I am making a good purchase? 

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I hear ya.. still waiting for mine. Should be here next month but I think its worth the investment and wait.:D

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well if were comparing to say the msuper x which is the most obvious, its barely any more depending on where you get it like 50-150 cheaper, but the ks looks much better, the ergenomics are much better (my opinion) msuper is stout and very squared, and to me looks like a cheap piece of junk with very ugly and pretty useless side pads that will take some conditioning to get used to.. the trolley handle is actually functional on ks (i honestly have never once used the trolley handle on my gotways, i hate them so much) but on the kingsong you can pull it along side you completely effortlessly with full control.. that alone for me would be a selling feature as i dont feel like hauling around 60 lbs all the time, pedals are more comfortable which again is my opinion, flat and larger as opposed to being at a sharp angle.. other than that its down to personal taste.. for me looks and practical functionality are way more important that slightly better raw power (only because it is untamed, they are actually equal in power). i would definitely take the kingsong even for 500 bucks more over the msuper but it depends on what you are wanting to do with it, a commuting device the kingsong wins hands down.. purely fun and adrenaline rush then the gotway.

Edited by Rywokast
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It is an AWESOME wheel. I have no regrets. It is a very impressive wheel. 

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5 hours ago, Gadgetfann said:

It’s better to invest in a wheel that you won’t outgrow than to start with a cheaper wheel that you’re ready to replace in a few months.

Funny you say that because this will be my 3rd wheel. I started with a 14d then recently got the 14s because it was a good deal. I've been wanting a big upgrade for a while now though. I've just been waiting for a wheel good enough to buy new (as previous wheels were all used).

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I see the difference between the MSX (the only current 1600Wh alternative, there are no other cheaper wheels with that range now) and 18XL like this:

The crappy MSX shell will be banged up, damaged, and overall "old" after 1-1.5 years. That's what happened to my ACM. The better built KS shell will just be as nice and shiny 3 years later as it was on day one (hopefully;)). Even if only because you tend to baby such a pretty shell more and use the wheel in a more civil way.

So the thinking goes like this: if you already spend so much money (2000+) on a wheel, it shouldn't be look banged up too soon. Along with the comfort features like trolley handle and apparently better ergonomics, that justifies the higher price. The MSX is almost to expensive to buy as an "expendable" wheel while the 18XL would keep fresh, that moves the needle towards the 18XL. It's a great wheel (every wheel is in its own). You couldnt have made a better choice (because you chose it in the first place).

(Personally I'd still go for the MSX due to the lower price here in Europe, the pure awesomeness of the board, and the raw power/hill behavior. But I'm not you. You chose the 18XL for a reason.)

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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Well, yes, the 18xl is an expensive wheel but it is also the best do-it-all wheel so in that sense it's a pretty economical wheel. Because your xl takes the place of several wheels then I would say it's the best purchase. Unless you're seriously doubtful about getting into wheels, the default wheel for most people should simpy be a largish 18 incher. I think @eddiemoy was one of the few riders here that bought a wheel and then had lots of difficulty learning it, but for most of us just three act of buying a wheel means you can learn it rather quickly.

Large and powerful wheels aren't like large and powerful cars/motorcycles; the bigger wheels are more safe, not less. Of course, you might decide to ride at an impudent speed, but most riders who read up on how a self-balancer works don't speed or wear proper equipment when they do.

Is there nothing the 18xl cannot do, and do very well? Not too heavy at 50 pounds (still luggable up steps), great form factor and trolley, great range, durable in crashes, wonderful quality by most (not all) accounts, this is a wheel that if I had money I'd throw away my other wheels and keep only this one.

Now in my opinion the Ninebot Z10 is the future of wheels, but it's not right, at least not yet. The XL is the best of the "traditional" wheel; it stands at the very apex of all wheels built so far. All that past knowledge and mistakes of previous wheels has been addressed by the XL so, sure, the XL is expensive. What you get is the ultimate evolution of the SB wheel, Z10 excepting.

 

 

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On 1/24/2019 at 12:06 AM, Flyboy10 said:

when cheaper ones go just as fast and far.

Really? Which ones? Fuhgedaboudit! Don't worry about the cost. Just buy the wheel and your chilly feet will feel quite warm very soon. :efee8319ab:

Edited by Lutalo

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@RockyTop  I totally get it in that instance, but I will still recommend an individual getting what they want first. There is no such culture here yet sadly and my family/friends want no part of this. I have tried again and again for them to give it a real go but no luck yet. My Z10 did take a real beating, and it certainly hurt my feelings to see me bash my nearly $2000 toy before I learned to properly use it. That was the hardest part in it all for me.

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On 1/27/2019 at 10:40 AM, LanghamP said:

Well, yes, the 18xl is an expensive wheel but it is also the best do-it-all wheel so in that sense it's a pretty economical wheel. Because your xl takes the place of several wheels then I would say it's the best purchase. Unless you're seriously doubtful about getting into wheels, the default wheel for most people should simpy be a largish 18 incher. I think @eddiemoy was one of the few riders here that bought a wheel and then had lots of difficulty learning it, but for most of us just three act of buying a wheel means you can learn it rather quickly.

Large and powerful wheels aren't like large and powerful cars/motorcycles; the bigger wheels are more safe, not less. Of course, you might decide to ride at an impudent speed, but most riders who read up on how a self-balancer works don't speed or wear proper equipment when they do.

Is there nothing the 18xl cannot do, and do very well? Not too heavy at 50 pounds (still luggable up steps), great form factor and trolley, great range, durable in crashes, wonderful quality by most (not all) accounts, this is a wheel that if I had money I'd throw away my other wheels and keep only this one.

Now in my opinion the Ninebot Z10 is the future of wheels, but it's not right, at least not yet. The XL is the best of the "traditional" wheel; it stands at the very apex of all wheels built so far. All that past knowledge and mistakes of previous wheels has been addressed by the XL so, sure, the XL is expensive. What you get is the ultimate evolution of the SB wheel, Z10 excepting.

 

 

It wasn't the difficulty learning the MSX or the Msuper V3s+, I just flat out hated the way it felt compared to 18L.  I didn't see a need to learn or get used to what I viewed as faulty design.  Yes, it is marginally faster, but for me I had no need for a wheel that goes above 30+ mph.  I value the way the wheel works with the rider vs against the rider.  

I simply had another choice.  If I had no choice I'm sure I would have been fine with the MSX or Msuper V3s+, but I had other wheels that I was compare it to and it was just not my cup of tea.  Just like the Z10 isn't either.  I just don't like the way it rides.  Some others enjoy the way it rides, but not for me.  

I love the way the 18L feels.  You are right, it is a traditional feeling wheel.  That is how I like it.  Also I like just about everything else about the 18L more so why put myself through the MSX's deficiencies.  I don't like the following, the crappy trolley handle, the pedals, extreme v shape, the boxy shell and how it pinch against your leg, the way it resist your turns sometimes.  NO bluetooth speakers, easy enough to fix, but another thing to carry.  Slower than the 18L if you keep tiltback on.  

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51 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

It wasn't the difficulty learning the MSX or the Msuper V3s+, I just flat out hated the way it felt compared to 18L.  I didn't see a need to learn or get used to what I viewed as faulty design. 

I may have the wrong rider. It was a rider who bought a wheel, couldn't learn it, then put it away for some months before coming back to it and finally learning to ride it.

To be fair learning to ride a wheel entirely on your own is quite tedious, as you are constantly bending down to pick up the wheel, then remounting.

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"worth" is a personal value claim.

Maybe run a cost-benefit analysis and include subjective value statements?

 

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4 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

@RockyTop  I totally get it in that instance, but I will still recommend an individual getting what they want first. There is no such culture here yet sadly and my family/friends want no part of this. I have tried again and again for them to give it a real go but no luck yet. My Z10 did take a real beating, and it certainly hurt my feelings to see me bash my nearly $2000 toy before I learned to properly use it. That was the hardest part in it all for me.

I totally get both perspectives.  LOL.  I got the V8 in November of last lear at a price I could afford at the time.  It was a stretch but I thought I'd out ride the V5F too quickly.  Now several months later I'm wanting to be able to ride without hitting the tilt back so much while commuting.  And I'd love to ride with my daughter.  So now I've sold some other gear to get the 18XL, again spending the extra to bypass the 18L.  Now when it comes in I can ride with family and friends.  And I can just use the V8 for training backwards and single foot.

Would have loved to have just started with the 18XL though.  LOL!

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1 hour ago, Circuitmage said:

"worth" is a personal value claim.

This statement should be the title of a long lecture. But I will digress and say - True That!!

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6 hours ago, LanghamP said:

I may have the wrong rider. It was a rider who bought a wheel, couldn't learn it, then put it away for some months before coming back to it and finally learning to ride it.

To be fair learning to ride a wheel entirely on your own is quite tedious, as you are constantly bending down to pick up the wheel, then remounting.

It took me years to learn, I bought my first wheel back in Jan 2014, thought it was impossible to learn.  It wasn’t until 2017 where I had the resolve to learn it after watching all the learning videos out there.   Wasn’t months, it was years for me. I just didn’t understand the learning process back then. Now I know I can learn anything, just need practice and time.  The brain is amazing.  

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9 hours ago, Rama Douglas said:

While I can see your point, I'm certainly happy I started with a "beginner" wheel. My V5F was the perfect price point to begin. Also, it's now my go to wheel for tricks, dancing and short jaunts. The XL is for distance. I love them both, and happy to have 2. I'll probably get a V8 and a Z10 too eventually. A good beginning wheel is hardly a waste of money, unless for some reason you're only gonna want one... It's not a race for the best wheel. And the plus side of waiting for a new wheel, is that they keep improving...😎

I very much agree with you, Rama...

Coming from the Segway MiniPro, I bought a used V5F with the encouragement  of fellow MiniPro riders who’d migrated to EUC’s. Two reasons I’m glad I started small/inexpensive are:

~ I wasn’t at all sure I’d like it.  EUC’s seemed cool but why gamble >$1000 when $300 got me the experience I needed?  

~ My forum friends assured me I’d roll the wheel quite a few time while learning and they were right.  I’m glad I bashed up a $300 wheel!

V5F is great...and after 4 months of training I moved up to a new V10F which is now my primary Wheel.  

Really glad I measured twice and cut once on this one.

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