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Face plants


Ande
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Hi all. I’ve done quite a bit of trawling through these forums for the last few days, and reports of face plants seem to crop up with alarming regularity. I’m 56, and don’t bounce anywhere nearly as well as I once did, so am naturally a bit concerned.  If I crash, and face plant due to my own ineptitude or stupidity then I can accept that.  However, what concerns me most is all of the reports of wheels conspiring against the riders by suddenly initiating deadly amounts of tilt back, or just plain glitching out.  How worried should I be?  Is this something that is inevitable, and all riders are bound to experience it sooner or later, or are the incidents rare?  I’m hoping that all wheels aren’t Jeckyl and Hyde as I don’t really need that seed of doubt nagging away at me.

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We cannot put your mind at ease because faceplants are inevitable, that is, on a long enough time scale every wheel will cut out. Now that time scale may be hours, or years, and less likely with newer wheels with better quality control, or very likely with older wheels with weaker older batteries, but the basic idea is to fix or replace your wheel before the inevitable cutout occurs.

For example, if you buy a newer Kingsong or Gotway with the upgraded mofets (magical pieces of circuitry that are sorted by quality by elves) then those are less likely to break your wheel.

So, you will faceplant. Accept it. Practice it, even. Wear wristguards and a helmet that can protect your face. Learn to roll.

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Generally, if you ride cautiously, it is unlikely to get a faceplant. It usually happens when rider is bit too confident in his abilities. Look where you go. Don't ride fast on a road that you don't know well. Be aware about potential hazards, like ice patches or wet leafs or mud.  

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Well, I bought a Kingsong KS18L, so was rather hoping it wouldn’t be too much of a dog.  I do have the protective gear,  but am still acutely aware that even that will only lessen the degree of injury, not totally eliminate it.   Might have to do a bit of soul searching...

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2 hours ago, Ande said:

Well, I bought a Kingsong KS18L, so was rather hoping it wouldn’t be too much of a dog.  I do have the protective gear,  but am still acutely aware that even that will only lessen the degree of injury, not totally eliminate it.   Might have to do a bit of soul searching...

My "escalator" theory is that if you can get up a moving escalator going the wrong way with little difficulty then you should be just fine at 12 mph and under cutouts and faceplants even though you'll hit the ground.

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I had a fear of face planting when I started riding too, but don’t fear falling as much now hat I have the right gear.  Get the right helmet, wrist guards, elbow pads and knee pads and maybe even a body protector.  I’ve found that  Leatt makes some great CE certified products for motorcycle riding and motocross that work very well for EUC riding.  As long as I’m riding with my gear on, I feel pretty safe.

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5 hours ago, LanghamP said:

My "escalator" theory is that if you can get up a moving escalator going the wrong way with little difficulty then you should be just fine at 12 mph and under cutouts and faceplants even though you'll hit the ground.

My "EUC" theory is that if you can successfully learn to ride a EUC in the first place, it can't be that bad that you shouldn't ride a EUC;)

Though I guess the risk #1 is being overweight, because all that mass makes any impact much more powerful. More specifically, the impact travelling from the arms (hopefully you have wrist guards) to your shoulders.

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23 minutes ago, travsformation said:

--- End of soliloquy ---

Holy wall of text! (Also I had to look that word up;))

I'd clarify, you talk mostly about a faceplant due to overpowering the wheel. That can happen with a weak motor or (worse) small battery, which certainly doesn't apply to the 18L. It happens due to overpowering the wheel, that is a high extra stress when it is already at its limits (like a pothole at top speed). Given that the 18L is capped at 50kph, which is crazy fast and still quite far away from what it can do, that is not going to happen.

Also, these faceplants aren't exactly from a power surge and the wheel protecting itself, just from the wheel not being able to deliver what would be needed (with the exception of the downhill overcharge, there the wheel indeed has to shut off to prevent damage, but even then there's a warning, just maybe too slow like on your V8). So the problem is rather the lack of a power surge (because that would be more than the wheel can do). I think the V8 just may have a problematic firmware limitations to protect the not-too-strong board, but stronger wheels like the 18L won't ever have to switch off to protect themselves (with the possible exception of downhill overcharging).

The other type of faceplant would be from a sudden electronics failure, that also won't happen with an 18L.

So @Ande unless you ignore any warnings or do anything absolutely unreasonable with your 18L, it's hard to see how you could possibly have a problem due to the wheel. Any fall won't be caused by the wheel itself. Worry about what you do;)

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1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Holy wall of text! (Also I had to look that word up;))

"holy wall of text-Batman!" As for solill solul sowlilli  that word, I didn't have to look it up but it did make my brain hurt.:unsure:

Edited by Smoother
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Thanks all.  Lots of information there to absorb. Firstly, I should point out that I’m not particularly cowardly, and am no stranger to “risk” sports. I was a paraglider pilot for many years, and successfully managed the risk element.  If I ever got into difficulty, it was always my own fault.  And I accepted that gladly. If, however, I had been told that there was a fair chance that my wing would tear in half, my harness have the the arse drop out of it, or the lines snap mid-flight then I would have never left the ground.  And, thank to your input, I now feel sufficiently confident that my wheel conspiring to kill me would be a very rare event.  I now have a better understanding of why the wheel might throw a hissy, and can now go about managing the situation. 

 

Particular thanks to @meepmeepmayer, @travsformation, and @Smoother for pointing out some of the technical reasons why my wheel might object to any inappropriate treatment :)

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@Ande

I sensed a lot of fear and self doubt in your post. I could be wrong. (Oooops just read your post)

Keep in mind this. In euc training your biggest enemy will be what your brain tells you. Beginner or experienced rider.

A 5 five year old has no self doubt. He just wants to do what he saw an adult do an GOES for it. 

I saw a video of a toddler that wanted to step off a wheel. No experience. He just walked off the damn thing and let it go and crash on a wall. No fear!

When I am initiating  adults how to step off a wheel for the first time (hop from four inches high!) I have to coerce them to step off...

Learning EUC is going to be one of the most soul revealing experience of your life as it will teach you a lot about of your own self and how your brain processes information from your senses. Of courses there will be a few bumps and bruises along the way...

 

 

Edited by pico
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I was a postman for many years, and was able to complete my round and get on the hill most flyable days.  However, my hours slowly changed, and the work got more demanding, meaning that I could only get on the hill high-days and holidays, which meant sharing the hill with every bugger else.  The Mynd was my go to site if it was blowing a westerly, and that gets so much traffic on weekends.  Just lost heart in the end.  Oh, I’ve got my paramotor rating too.  Owned a Bailey V5 for a short while, but found the landings too tough on my knees with the extra 20-odd kilos on my back.  Much preferred free flight. Who are you training with?

Edited by Ande
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3 minutes ago, Ande said:

I was a postman for many years, and was able to complete my round and get on the hill most flyable days.  However, my hours slowly changed, and the work got more demanding, meaning that I could only get on the hill high-days and holidays, which meant sharing the hill with every bugger else.  The Mynd was my go to site if it was blowing a westerly, and that gets so much traffic on weekends.  Just lost heart in the end.  Oh, I’ve got my paramotor rating too.  Owned a Bailey V5 for a short while, but found the landings too tough on my knees with the extra 20-odd kills on my back.  Much preferred free flight. Who are you training with?

answering in a PM so as not to clutter up the thread too much.

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3 minutes ago, pico said:

@Ande

I sensed a lot of fear and self doubt in your post. I could be wrong.

Keep in mind this. In euc training your biggest enemy will be what your brain tells you. Beginner or experienced rider.

A 5 five year old has no self doubt. He just wants to do what he saw an adult do an GOES for it. 

I saw a video of a toddler that wanted to step off a wheel. No experience. He just walked off the damn thing and let it go and crash on a wall. No fear!

When I am initiating  adults how to step off a wheel for the first time (hop from four inches high!) I have to coerce them to step off...

Learning EUC is going to be one of the most soul revealing experience of your life as it will teach you a lot about of your own self and how your brain processes information from your senses. Of courses there will be a few bumps and bruises along the way...

 

 

Hi pico. Sorry if I gave that impression. I’m not fearful of the act of riding an euc. I am, however, fearful of that which I’ve no control over.  Which is why I posted about wheels failing.  As I said in my opening post, I’ve no problem with crashing if it’s self induced.  Just needed to know how reliable these things are on the whole.

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No prob. I wanted to kill my post, then,  as I stated this is good advice for all riders and I am no exception.

I still remember my first backward 360 turn and my brain wanted to tell me that everything was wrong and gradually telling me you are just fine...

So sooner or later my post will be useful ;)

 

Edited by pico
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58 minutes ago, pico said:

Learning EUC is going to be one of the most soul revealing experience of your life as it will teach you a lot about of your own self and how your brain processes information from your senses. Of courses there will be a few bumps and bruises along the way...

This is so true!!!!!!!!

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1 hour ago, Ande said:

If, however, I had been told that there was a fair chance that my wing would tear in half, my harness have the the arse drop out of it, or the lines snap mid-flight then I would have never left the ground.

The chance that a wheel just stops working for no good reason is about the chance that one of the things above would just happen without good reason:) You don't hear that very often, do you? Yes it could happen, but with a good wheel, realistically it simply doesn't.

It's like this for most new riders, especially the more technical minded who understand the implication of "self-balancing" and want their tech to be predictable. They are uneasy about this uncertainty when they learn about EUCs, it's just there in principle, and there's nothing one can do. Very soon they (and you will) learn that the real danger is elsewhere aka dumb shit they or others do:D

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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