New 16″ unicycle from King Song

[Seba]

Just got some informations about new, 16" wheel from King Song. Information is unofficial, but I got it from well-informed source. Specs are very promising:

• 2000 W cont power motor
• 45 kph max speed
• 1554 Wh battery

New wheel will have designated front and back, just like many other wheels (Ninebot Z10 for example). It's very possible that we will see the first photos soon.

https://najednymkole.pl/en/new-16-unicycle-from-king-song/

[stephen]

Should be a good hill climber been a16 inch wheel and 84v , i wonder if it will have a fatter tyre on , looking forward to new wheels

[Seba]

I'm very curious about pedal height. It's one of the biggest limitation to the current KS-16 line. I hope the new wheel will be at least similar to Z10. I'm also pretty sure that the tire will be 16x2.5, similar to the V10.

[stephen]

If kingsong bringing a 16"1600wh battery gotway have some thinking to do they have always been the range masters

[meepmeepmayer]

Can you maybe give a bit of info on the well-informed source? How reliable is it?

2 hours ago, Seba said:

New wheel will have designated front and back, just like many other wheels (Ninebot Z10 for example).

New design for KingSongs! Exciting!

36 minutes ago, stephen said:

If kingsong bringing a 16"1600wh battery gotway have some thinking to do they have always been the range masters

Wide 3'' tire, 55kph instead of 45... many people will still be going for a Gotway.

But you're right, KS getting big batteries (if only most reluctantly) is the best thing that happened for a long time, now GW hopefully have to up their game because they no longer automatically get the range people.

[Lutalo]

53 minutes ago, stephen said:

If kingsong bringing a 16"1600wh battery gotway have some thinking to do they have always been the range masters

It will become increasingly more difficult for GW to differentiate themselves with a strategy hinging upon range. Range tech is limited; more range = more weight. Until it is cost effective enough for EUC manufacturers to break that limitation, 1600wh gives pretty much the max you can go and still have a relatively balanced wheel with awesome range capability.

GW success in drawing customers despite shortcomings (real or perceived) to their wheels because of range and power has forced other brands to adopt less conservative attitudes about the matter. 

Soon everybody will be making high range wheels. Unless, GW starts making more refined wheels they won't continue to compete well against other brands. Hence, the Nicola.

[Seba]

27 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Can you maybe give a bit of info on the well-informed source? How reliable is it?

It's a serious guy who closely cooperates with King Song for a long time. For now I consider this information at least very plausible, but  I think we will be able to confirm or deny this information within just few days.

30 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wide 3'' tire, 55kph instead of 45... many people will still be going for a Gotway.

55 kph with just 16"? I don't think that going above 40 kph is a good idea with such small wheel. Certainly it won't be competition for MSX (but this is completely different size), but I think it may compete with Nikola and will be supreme to Tesla.

[Unventor]

I hope they do a Z10 tyre approach. Meaning a proper tyre that don't buckle as you turn.

And have a real summer and winter tyre solution. Eg a studed tyre high performances at low temp for winter and a gripper tyre for summer temp.

And no screws under padding. Easy acces to opening sidepanels to change tyre ect. 

And a proper water and dust seal. So you can hose fown wheel to rinse of winter salt or summer dust/mud from off-roading.

Cool option could be a swartm clock size remote with buzzed activation and speed or power readout. So you dont need to fit an oversized smartphone on your arm. A remote you could mount on a finger rige type or an arm wrist allowing wrist guards still or a neckles. Kind of like a remorte function to sony actioncams.

This would make it easier rather having to use a peple gadget. And something that would make wheel stand oit a bit. Yes you could use a smartwatch too, but these are hard to fix on a wristguard.

I did see someone mentioning the KS16X as name before, I woundered what happened to that.

@US69 ideas worth forwarding to Kingsong maybe?

[meepmeepmayer]

36 minutes ago, Seba said:

55 kph with just 16"? I don't think that going above 40 kph is a good idea with such small wheel.

It's not whether it's a good idea, just like going 65kph with an MSX 100V isn't exactly a good idea. It's about whether people can (and will)

If we assume a 100V version of the Nikola is coming soon (not too big of a stretch), and we say the MSX 100V can do 65, then the Nikola 100V will be able to do approximately 17/19*65 = 58kph (same motor). So something like 55 is a realistic number.

39 minutes ago, Seba said:

but I think it may compete with Nikola and will be supreme to Tesla

Both wheels will still be faster than this KS, even the old Tesla. I wouldn't care, but apparently a lot of people do.

[Unventor]

37 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Both wheels will still be faster than this KS, even the old Tesla. I wouldn't care, but apparently a lot of people do.

Faster is not necessarily better or generate more sales for that matter.

One thing is what people think here on forum, another is what will sell to general masses, domestic and international.

[Lutalo]

My concern is that KS engaging a top speed war with GW leading to speed becoming a priority as opposed to actual continued improvement. I think KS should let GW have that particular metric and stick to their values. 

Firmware permissiveness to eke out a couple of more miles per hour in top speed is not a legitimate bragging right for many buyers who will use their wheels for more than top speed runs and posing, nor should it be a design priority in my opinion. It doesn't alone actually make a wheel better or more capable.

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's not whether it's a good idea, just like going 65kph with an MSX 100V isn't exactly a good idea. It's about whether people can (and will)

Got that right. People can and will do just about anything. I just read an article about a guy that went over Niagara Falls in a barrel some years ago. The point being to see if he would survive? Well, he didn't. I'm just glad that I am not the one who had to create his epitaph. 

[Seba]

9 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

My concern is that KS engaging a top speed war with GW leading to speed becoming a priority as opposed to actual continued improvement. I think KS should let GW have that particular metric and stick to their values. 

Firmware permissiveness to eke out a couple of more miles per hour in top speed is not a legitimate bragging right for many buyers who will use their wheels for more than top speed runs and posing, nor should it be a design priority in my opinion. It doesn't alone actually make a wheel better or more capable.

I hope KS is aware of the culture they created and that this culture has been widely recognized by the community. 45 kph is just enough as a safe speed margin. But most people will focus on extended range and enhanced safety from high power capable motor and battery.

[Lutalo]

21 hours ago, Seba said:

I hope KS is aware of the culture they created and that this culture has been widely recognized by the community. 45 kph is just enough as a safe speed margin. But most people will focus on extended range and enhanced safety from high power capable motor and battery.

I agree. For most people attracted to the advanced EUCs range and reliable power delivery are more heavily weighted than speed. I sort of topped out the 18L (Hit the third beep and backed off; set at 49 kmh) it was enlightening. I had never been that fast on a wheel before then. Did it several times over several days and then felt completely satisfied that I had no need to travel at such a high rate of speed on an EUC. Which, is somewhat odd, because my motorcycle attitude is completely different; go figure. 😁

[Seba]

20 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

I agree. For most people attracted to the advanced EUCs range and reliable power delivery are more heavily weighted than speed. I sort of topped out the 18L (Hit the third beep and backed off; set at 49 kmh) it was enlightening. I had never been that on a wheel before then. Did it several times over several days and then felt completely satisfied that I had no need to travel at such a high rate of speed on an EUC. Which, is somewhat odd, because my motorcycle attitude is completely different; go figure. 😁

Aaah, it's easy to explain. You just know that your motorcycle will give you expected safety level even with higher speeds. This is not the case with EUC - there is some spot in the motor characteristics curve where achievable torque will be less that required... booom, faceplant! Motorcycle will just settle on max speed, which usually is much higher than you need. I previously set my KS-18L to warn me at 35 kph and to tiltback at 40 kph. And I don't remember when recently I got a tiltback... 

Of course one may say that I'm too cautious.That's true - I am  I've faceplanted several times due to excessive self-confidence when I was just learning to ride or due to unexpected road bumps etc. Now I prefer to ride slightly slower - there is less possibility of faceplanting, more time to admire the views (in many meanings...  ) and get better range on single charge. 30 - 35 kph is good for me.

[Unventor]

13 hours ago, Seba said:

Aaah, it's easy to explain. You just know that your motorcycle will give you expected safety level even with higher speeds. This is not the case with EUC - there is some spot in the motor characteristics curve where achievable torque will be less that required... booom, faceplant! Motorcycle will just settle on max speed, which usually is much higher than you need. I previously set my KS-18L to warn me at 35 kph and to tiltback at 40 kph. And I don't remember when recently I got a tiltback... 

Of course one may say that I'm too cautious.That's true - I am  I've faceplanted several times due to excessive self-confidence when I was just learning to ride or due to unexpected road bumps etc. Now I prefer to ride slightly slower - there is less possibility of faceplanting, more time to admire the views (in many meanings...  ) and get better range on single charge. 30 - 35 kph is good for me.

See that is a smart move. We all make mistakes, question is how many it takes to learn. 

Yep I did that too, felt safe, rode too fast for me and my wheels capabilities. 

I got a wheel that have great capabilities but they are harnessed at 40kmh warning 42kmh tiltback. I generally ride around 25-35kmh. I got around 400km on my V8. I cashed it training emergency breaking in a enclosed not used parking lot. At that point I had ridden 350ish km. Today I got back from a ride on my KS18L. Now totalling 1097km.

I still consider myself a novice or rookie. But I have no plans whatsoever to go faster..no need for it. If so I would go on a MC or drive a car.

I really don't see a need to enter a topspeed race for Kingsong. I seriously doubt they would benefit from alternative advertising adds aka news articles of a rider going insane speeds killing him or her self.

Topspeed is a niche market, mainstream is where sales volume is, and proffit.

[Lutalo]

22 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Both wheels will still be faster than this KS, even the old Tesla. I wouldn't care, but apparently a lot of people do.

Perhaps, but I doubt these buyer's represent a ruling majority.

[Jason McNeil]

On 1/20/2019 at 10:58 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

Wide 3'' tire, 55kph instead of 45... many people will still be going for a Gotway

The info I've received is that the tire will be a 2.5", there is however enough width clearance for a 3" tire as well—no doubt this will be the most popular option. It has an entirely new, bold styling, more akin to Rockwheel than anything KS has put out so far. There's a few other unique features that might make there way into the production Wheel. Trying to have KS let @KujiRolls do a first unveiling/release video after the Chinese New Year in around 4 weeks. 

[Lutalo]

20 hours ago, Seba said:

Aaah, it's easy to explain. You just know that your motorcycle will give you expected safety level even with higher speeds.

Exactly. I realize that if I wipe out at 180mph then emergency personnel will need to shovel my remains from the asphalt; the remains that they can locate. 

However, when I am in the pocket I feel that my bike is stable, supportive and capable at those speeds. I feel that I mitigate a lot of risk by carefully selecting the environment and conditions. 

On an EUC, I feel vulnerable and insecure about my safety at high speeds. While the machine (18L) feels stable at high speeds I feel unstable and less connected to it at high speeds (connected only by foot on platforms). Some people without my particular experiential frame of reference may feel different.

[stephen]

21 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

The info I've received is that the tire will be a 2.5", there is however enough width clearance for a 3" tire as well—no doubt this will be the most popular option. It has an entirely new, bold styling, more akin to Rockwheel than anything KS has put out so far. There's a few other unique features that might make there way into the production Wheel. Trying to have KS let @KujiRolls do a first unveiling/release video after the Chinese New Year in around 4 weeks. 

Should be a good hill climber ,3" trail wheel would be good 😊

[LanghamP]

 

Top speeds on a wheel are stupid because those speeds are highly variable and not easily repeatable by different people.

You take a 600cc motorcycle, and yes all these top speeds are repeatable to within few mph even by riders of significant body shape, but no such repeatability exists with wheels.

I'd propose instead a standard that suggests under what conditions your wheel will dump you on the ground. Such as

200 pound rider at 20 mph gets dumped at x incline.

Then the same for 150 pound rider.

And so on.

And obvious reason, well known by any rider, is that while any other vehicle reaches an equilibrium at top speed, a wheel simply dumps you with almost no (or none whatsoever) warning. Yes wheels have a top speed, but no don't try to find it. It's like poking an ant hill.

[Marty Backe]

Very exciting. I would not have imagined a ~1600wh 16-inch from KingSong. Very encouraging that the high-capacity wheels are not going away.

I wonder if it'll be late 2019 before it ships, based on KingSong history 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

The info I've received is that the tire will be a 2.5", there is however enough width clearance for a 3" tire as well—no doubt this will be the most popular option. It has an entirely new, bold styling, more akin to Rockwheel than anything KS has put out so far. There's a few other unique features that might make there way into the production Wheel. Trying to have KS let @KujiRolls do a first unveiling/release video after the Chinese New Year in around 4 weeks. 

So Jason, do I hear shock absorbers or am I still only dreaming/wishing?

[Seba]

19 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Very exciting. I would not have imagined a ~1600wh 16-inch from KingSong. Very encouraging that the high-capacity wheels are not going away.

I wonder if it'll be late 2019 before it ships, based on KingSong history 

I think it will be based on KS-18L/XL controller, with some software changes. So it's possible they won't face the problems they had with early KS-18L. I would even bet that they will reuse the same engine embedded into smaller rim and the real speed will be 40 kph, 5 kph less than advertised (same like with KS-18L)  I think it would be a clever move - reuse quite new but proven & matured platform in mechanically & visually new product.

[Seba]

6 minutes ago, Unventor said:

So Jason, do I hear shock absorbers or am I still only dreaming/wishing?

Not at all! There will be even programmable damping... by varying pressure  in 3" tire