Jpd Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 6 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Am I the only one who can't scrape the pedals on the Z10? I find this wheel particularly difficult to scrape pedals I also have not been able to scrape the pedals (not like I really want to) . This was a surprise to me as the pedals are quite a bit lower than my other wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 @Marty Backe my pedals on the Z10 are scraped up good after 200 miles. They're all low speed scrapes though. I am also a little over 200 ibs. I wonder if weight is a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 21 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said: @Marty Backe my pedals on the Z10 are scraped up good after 200 miles. They're all low speed scrapes though. I am also a little over 200 ibs. I wonder if weight is a factor. If it's happening from low-speed turning then I think it's caused by your turning technique. The Z10 is particularly easy to turn (180's) with very little dipping of the pedals. You are a new rider so I suspect you haven't fine tuned your tight turning skills yet. For the Z10, slow-speed turning is more of a body/wheel rotation rather then a leaning turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 @Darrell Wesh @Girth Brooks @Marty Backe how tall are all of you? I have no incidental pedal scrape from normal riding on my Z10, but I am also 5'8". Differing body physics would come in to play, I have a feeling, if @Darrell Wesh & @Girth Brooks are significantly taller, say in the 6'+ variety.... though my theory will be blown out if @Marty Backe is in this category as well. While I do subscribe to the fact that the Z pedals are too low, this is not due to pedal scrape, but rather the different physics of the wider Z tire and how it relates to the shell body getting in the way of one's leg for sharper turns (wider angling of the shell body from center due to the wide tire; a big reason why I go heels wider, so I can hook around the Z body on turns). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 22 minutes ago, houseofjob said: @Darrell Wesh @Girth Brooks @Marty Backe how tall are all of you? I have no incidental pedal scrape from normal riding on my Z10, but I am also 5'8". Differing body physics would come in to play, I have a feeling, if @Darrell Wesh & @Girth Brooks are significantly taller, say in the 6'+ variety.... though my theory will be blown out if @Marty Backe is in this category as well. While I do subscribe to the fact that the Z pedals are too low, this is not due to pedal scrape, but rather the different physics of the wider Z tire and how it relates to the shell body getting in the way of one's leg for sharper turns (wider angling of the shell body from center due to the wide tire; a big reason why I go heels wider, so I can hook around the Z body on turns). 5’11 and 185 pounds. I only scraped the pedal because I was turning into a street that went uphill, so turning from a lower street to a higher point if that makes sense. But a street the MSX would never scrape on or worry me. I don’t feel that invincibility like I do with the MSX pedals but I imagine I have to get used to the much lower center of gravity of the Z. Just was out this morning testing it on a full charge for the first time. It’s so slow lol! (0 setting for riding sensitivity) very fun for slaloms though obviously. Tried brake assist.... I like it ON. It does feel more firm with it off like you mentioned @houseofjob but I feel like it stops quicker with it on, or rather you can really squat back with it on to stop harder without fear of falling off. What tire pressure do you all use? I have it at 24, seems good havent tried anything else though. I don’t get the follow-the-cracks tramlining or wobbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, houseofjob said: @Darrell Wesh @Girth Brooks @Marty Backe how tall are all of you? I have no incidental pedal scrape from normal riding on my Z10, but I am also 5'8". Differing body physics would come in to play, I have a feeling, if @Darrell Wesh & @Girth Brooks are significantly taller, say in the 6'+ variety.... though my theory will be blown out if @Marty Backe is in this category as well. While I do subscribe to the fact that the Z pedals are too low, this is not due to pedal scrape, but rather the different physics of the wider Z tire and how it relates to the shell body getting in the way of one's leg for sharper turns (wider angling of the shell body from center due to the wide tire; a big reason why I go heels wider, so I can hook around the Z body on turns). I would guess Marty is 6'1". BTW I like to guess things. I once won a top of the line BMW motorcycle by guessing better than all the other contentants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: If it's happening from low-speed turning then I think it's caused by your turning technique. The Z10 is particularly easy to turn (180's) with very little dipping of the pedals. You are a new rider so I suspect you haven't fine tuned your tight turning skills yet. For the Z10, slow-speed turning is more of a body/wheel rotation rather then a leaning turn. I can do a 180 in an 5' corridor and had never scraped the pedal in a turn. I guess I can intentionally touch the ground with it but can't imagine any reason why the combination of sharp turn and low speed would be needed during regular rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 29 minutes ago, houseofjob said: @Darrell Wesh @Girth Brooks @Marty Backe how tall are all of you? I have no incidental pedal scrape from normal riding on my Z10, but I am also 5'8". Differing body physics would come in to play, I have a feeling, if @Darrell Wesh & @Girth Brooks are significantly taller, say in the 6'+ variety.... though my theory will be blown out if @Marty Backe is in this category as well. While I do subscribe to the fact that the Z pedals are too low, this is not due to pedal scrape, but rather the different physics of the wider Z tire and how it relates to the shell body getting in the way of one's leg for sharper turns (wider angling of the shell body from center due to the wide tire; a big reason why I go heels wider, so I can hook around the Z body on turns). I'm 5'11''. Pretty close to Darrel, but he has a few more pounds (muscle no doubt) on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Just now, Marty Backe said: I'm 5'11''. Pretty close to Darrel, but he has a few more pounds (muscle no doubt) on me. DAMN IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said: 5’11 and 185 pounds. I only scraped the pedal because I was turning into a street that went uphill, so turning from a lower street to a higher point if that makes sense. But a street the MSX would never scrape on or worry me. I don’t feel that invincibility like I do with the MSX pedals but I imagine I have to get used to the much lower center of gravity of the Z. Just was out this morning testing it on a full charge for the first time. It’s so slow lol! (0 setting for riding sensitivity) very fun for slaloms though obviously. Tried brake assist.... I like it ON. It does feel more firm with it off like you mentioned @houseofjob but I feel like it stops quicker with it on, or rather you can really squat back with it on to stop harder without fear of falling off. What tire pressure do you all use? I have it at 24, seems good havent tried anything else though. I don’t get the follow-the-cracks tramlining or wobbles. You really need to experiment with the tire pressure. For me, I settled on ~30-psi. At ~24-psi I found that the tire pulled a lot to the left/right as the wheel encountered road imperfections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Smoother said: DAMN IT! No motorcycle for you today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Marty Backe said: No motorcycle for you today Your legendary status confused me into thinking you must be taller than us mere mortals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Damn, there goes that theory! I guess it's all just a combination of rider aggressiveness, habits, etc. 17 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said: I don’t feel that invincibility like I do with the MSX pedals but I imagine I have to get used to the much lower center of gravity of the Z. Just was out this morning testing it on a full charge for the first time. It’s so slow lol! (0 setting for riding sensitivity) very fun for slaloms though obviously. Give it some time before you come to a solid conclusion. After you've been used to any one wheel, it's really hard to re-adjust to another, especially cross-brands. But, of course, the Z will not match the MSX in sheer performance. 17 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said: Tried brake assist.... I like it ON. It does feel more firm with it off like you mentioned @houseofjob but I feel like it stops quicker with it on, or rather you can really squat back with it on to stop harder without fear of falling off. Wow, I hate that feeling (like a trap door pulled from under you), but I guess to each their own. 17 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said: What tire pressure do you all use? I have it at 24, seems good havent tried anything else though. I don’t get the follow-the-cracks tramlining or wobbles. I go 30 PSI on the Z like @Marty Backe does, and I'm around 185 lbs with backpack weight; anything in the 20's PSI-wise became under-inflated, pulling artificially. Pretty sure this should be the same for you at your rider weight & 24PSI (also note, the Z tire will soften slightly, over time/wear). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 @houseofjob I wish! I am 5'9" myself. I think it is because of what @Marty Backe mentioned. I just have a little over 200 miles on it as of today so I will likely get away from doing it with more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 53 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said: Tried brake assist.... I like it ON. It does feel more firm with it off like you mentioned @houseofjob but I feel like it stops quicker with it on, or rather you can really squat back with it on to stop harder without fear of falling off. What tire pressure do you all use? I have it at 24, seems good havent tried anything else though. I don’t get the follow-the-cracks tramlining or wobbles. I like the tire pressure at 28psi for the most part at just over 200lbs riding weight, though I do vary down to 25 which is real comfy feeling. I have had the ride value on 4 since the start. Now that you mention riding at zero ride value though, I want to play around with my ride values some more. I also leave my assisted braking on and will continue to. I have tried it off enough to know I like it on for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I am going to try 30psi tire pressure with ride value on zero the next time I ride. Y'all have me curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said: I am going to try 30psi tire pressure with ride value on zero the next time I ride. Y'all have me curious. Looks like your trying everything and why not, each to there own. I like soft on the msx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 51 minutes ago, stephen said: Looks like your trying everything and why not, each to there own. I like soft on the msx Keep this in mind Stephen when you get your Z10; Soft vs Hard has a different meaning with the Z10 compared to other wheels (your MSX). Although a soft tire on the Z10 can make for a more comfortable ride, it can dramatically affect the controllability of the wheel, in a bad way. So when we recommend higher tire pressures for the Z10, it's not about the comfort-level of the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 @Marty Backe that valve extender hack on the Z10 that you came up with is still undefeated. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 2 hours ago, houseofjob said: Damn, there goes that theory! I guess it's all just a combination of rider aggressiveness, habits, etc. Give it some time before you come to a solid conclusion. After you've been used to any one wheel, it's really hard to re-adjust to another, especially cross-brands. But, of course, the Z will not match the MSX in sheer performance. Wow, I hate that feeling (like a trap door pulled from under you), but I guess to each their own. I go 30 PSI on the Z like @Marty Backe does, and I'm around 185 lbs with backpack weight; anything in the 20's PSI-wise became under-inflated, pulling artificially. Pretty sure this should be the same for you at your rider weight & 24PSI (also note, the Z tire will soften slightly, over time/wear). I will try 30 psi as well. Shouldn’t that make it easier to turn into corners? I want it to be harder to turn so I can use more body weight = more fun 😅😅 I forgot backpack and gear weight. I’m 205 with gear and backpack. As for liking the brake assist, I try to keep my feet flat on the pedals when I am braking and squat down and back hard and if needed put one or both arms back to slow down even faster. It looks like you press down hard on the heels and push the wheel in front of you to brake @houseofjob? I can clearly see how the brake assist would mess that technique up and feel like you might fall if it dips the back of the pedal. So for me, my butt is way lower than yours for braking but a lot of flexion in the knees maintains my full foot contact on the pedals. 3 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said: @Marty Backe that valve extender hack on the Z10 that you came up with is still undefeated. Love it. @Marty Backe yes thank you! I use that to much success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: Keep this in mind Stephen when you get your Z10; Soft vs Hard has a different meaning with the Z10 compared to other wheels (your MSX). Although a soft tire on the Z10 can make for a more comfortable ride, it can dramatically affect the controllability of the wheel, in a bad way. So when we recommend higher tire pressures for the Z10, it's not about the comfort-level of the wheel. Yeah I'll try it hard first see how it goes , this is going to be my fun wheel anyway, for big trips it will be the msx , but if i want to doodle about I'll be using the Z10 ,, ...doodle😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said: I will try 30 psi as well. Shouldn’t that make it easier to turn into corners? I want it to be harder to turn so I can use more body weight = more fun 😅😅 I forgot backpack and gear weight. I’m 205 with gear and backpack. Yup. Highly doubt race car drivers are riding around with under-inflated tires and loose shocks for comfort Performance turns need hard and resistant tuning to push off of pavement quicker. 3 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said: As for liking the brake assist, I try to keep my feet flat on the pedals when I am braking and squat down and back hard and if needed put one or both arms back to slow down even faster. It looks like you press down hard on the heels and push the wheel in front of you to brake @houseofjob? I can clearly see how the brake assist would mess that technique up and feel like you might fall if it dips the back of the pedal. So for me, my butt is way lower than yours for braking but a lot of flexion in the knees maintains my full foot contact on the pedals. Nice catch! For braking, I go heels on the back pedal edges (not the pedal flats), where one or both my toes sometimes lift completely off the pedal. My hips are the furthest back, with my torso leaning towards my toes, to compensate (whole positioning as if I'm getting punched in the gut, or falling off a train platform but trying to re-balance). So yes, I think that in fact IS why I prefer the stable braking ledge, even though for forward motion, I prefer a softer swing. Didn't think through my reasoning until you mentioned. EDIT: you can see this in action queued here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, houseofjob said: Yup. Highly doubt race car drivers are riding around with under-inflated tires and loose shocks for comfort Performance turns need hard and resistant tuning to push off of pavement quicker. Nice catch! For braking, I go heels on the back pedal edges (not the pedal flats), where one or both my toes sometimes lift completely off the pedal. My hips are the furthest back, with my torso leaning towards my toes, to compensate (whole positioning as if I'm getting punched in the gut, or falling off a train platform but trying to re-balance). So yes, I think that in fact IS why I prefer the stable braking ledge, even though for forward motion, I prefer a softer swing. Didn't think through my reasoning until you mentioned. EDIT: you can see this in action queued here: The reverse Michael Jackson lean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said: The reverse Michael Jackson lean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Wesh Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 So my Z10 never came with an instruction manual (lol I read those) and I’ve been getting that typical Segway warning beep sound at top speeds but no tiltback. Which scares me because isn’t this supposed to have tilt back you can’t turn off? And on my miniplus and pro’s that warning sound usually accompanies tiltback and means the top speed you can go. When is tiltback vs when is warning sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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