The Tyre (Tire) Thread

[Elliott Reitz]

15 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Interesting! I'd love to hear more direct comparisons between the SR241 and SR244, if you will. 

 

Comparisons

Installation: The SR244 required 1/8" more tire shaving than the SR241 to fit into the MSX shell.  I saw someone on YT with an SR244 on an MS Pro that looked like it fit without shaving so I wonder if the MSP shell is 1/4" or so wider. 

Compare Tires vs Riding:  The SR241 is much quicker both turning and accel/decel... on pavement, smoothest too.  On Dirt, the SR244 was closer to the knobby for traction but truly real big pig at slow speeds.  So I liked the knobby better than the SR244.  As for speed, I've not had any of my non-stock tires over 25 mph very often ... mostly command-authority and/or wobble-prone/or overlean sense of over-lean-risk.  The SR241 is most road speed oriented of these 3 (MX, SR244, SR241), and also the least mud/snow worthy.  I've only had the SR241 out for a few miles at speed so far, and my sense of it is that its twitcy (a good thing) at low speed like the e+, with a severe wobble at 25 mph (baaad).   The SR244 seemed sluggish going slow & slippery such as where an aggressive tread might be nice to have. The SR244 didn't wobble but it maxed out torque/command-authority at about 25 mph.  The SR241 wobble seemed hit at 25mph and stabilize (still scary) by more lean with more knee bend and just letting it "work" as I out-sped the osculation frequency (yet I prolly only reached 26 or 27 mph). 

Conclusion:  Don't bother with an SR244 on an MSX.  MSP might be good due to extra torque and possibly less tire-saving if the shell is actually wider (my impression from vid of MSP).

Edited April 29, 2020 by Elliott Reitz

[ZenRyder]

14 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Comparisons

Installation: The SR244 required 1/8" more tire shaving than the SR241 to fit into the MSX shell.  I saw someone on YT with an SR244 on an MS Pro that looked like it fit without shaving so I wonder if the MSP shell is 1/4" or so wider. 

Compare Tires vs Riding:  The SR241 is much quicker both turning and accel/decel... on pavement, smoothest too.  On Dirt, the SR244 was closer to the knobby for traction but truly real big pig at slow speeds.  So I liked the knobby better than the SR244.  As for speed, I've not had any of my non-stock tires over 25 mph very often ... mostly command-authority and/or wobble-prone/or overlean sense of over-lean-risk.  The SR241 is most road speed oriented of these 3 (MX, SR244, SR241), and also the least mud/snow worthy.  I've only had the SR241 out for a few miles at speed so far, and my sense of it is that its twitcy (a good thing) at low speed like the e+, with a severe wobble at 25 mph (baaad).   The SR244 seemed sluggish going slow & slippery such as where an aggressive tread might be nice to have. The SR244 didn't wobble but it maxed out torque/command-authority at about 25 mph.  The SR241 wobble seemed hit at 25mph and stabilize (still scary) by more lean with more knee bend and just letting it "work" as I out-sped the osculation frequency (yet I prolly only reached 26 or 27 mph). 

Conclusion:  Don't bother with an SR244 on an MSX.  MSP might be good due to extra torque and possibly less tire-saving if the shell is actually wider (my impression from vid of MSP).

I have tried the SR241 & the SR244 and I agree with several of your findings. This is a small club who have tried them both and are able to make a comparison so thanks for posting your review. I concur that the SR241 is twitchier and makes more road noise. 

I found the SR241 was harder to fit in the case that the SR244. I also had to grind out some of the shell to make the 244 fit and then when I put in the SR241, it was too tight to run at higher pressure. I felt like I had to sand down the SR241 even further than the SR244 in order to run it. While the traction was pretty good, definitely better than stock, I didn't think it was near as good as the SR244 on the trail. So, I think we're in agreement there. 

I have not tried that Knobby 2.5", but I'm tempted for sure. Right now, I took off the SR241 and put the SR244 back on. It is truly my favorite dual sport tire. Not too loud and annoying in the street and a beast on the trails. I do not have problems with torque at low speeds. It's true it's a larger tire, so maybe your feeling that, but I just don't feel there are any negatives worth mentioning other than getting it to fit right.

In fact, I think getting the right balance of the tire when mounted is a big part of it. Adding some lube to the rim and inflating slowly helps to avoid a lopsided mount.

[seage]

Do any of you know where I can find the Chao Yang H-5102?

Ive been riding with that tire from before and I can handle it. Its not the worst, but corners are just sooo waackkkk. Its really a struggle and actually kinda wears me out. I want my slick street wheel again. That badboy was so good, but I've asked my supplier and he cant find it. I've checked e-wheels and they dont seem to have it, and the local store doesnt even have anything for any current wheel. Where tf is this tire?! Someone help pls

[tudordewolf]

1 hour ago, seage said:

Do any of you know where I can find the Chao Yang H-5102?

Ive been riding with that tire from before and I can handle it. Its not the worst, but corners are just sooo waackkkk. Its really a struggle and actually kinda wears me out. I want my slick street wheel again. That badboy was so good, but I've asked my supplier and he cant find it. I've checked e-wheels and they dont seem to have it, and the local store doesnt even have anything for any current wheel. Where tf is this tire?! Someone help pls

I believe this is for one - for a 3.0, there's more listings and options for 2.5 width

Edited May 1, 2020 by tudordewolf
more info

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, seage said:

Do any of you know where I can find the Chao Yang H-5102?

For the 18XL? There’s one at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/18x2-50-64-Inner-Tube-Electric/dp/B00SVA0YJI/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=18+2.5+tire&qid=1588309138&sr=8-1

Personally I’d put any other tire on my own EUC for my own riding environments.

 Searching for “Msuper v3 tire” on EBay for example should bring up the CST C-1488, which is vastly superior if you ever ride on wet parts, dirt or off-road. From what I remember the CST also does tight turns nicer on the 18XL.

[mozart]

Onko tämä sopiva KS 18l / xl?

https://www.huskybicycles.com/cst-bicycle-tire-18x250-c-1488-all-black.html

Edit: It is not worth ordering here in Finland, transport of two tires is $ 126 !!!

Edited May 1, 2020 by mozart

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, mozart said:

Onko tämä sopiva KS 18l / xl?

https://www.huskybicycles.com/cst-bicycle-tire-18x250-c-1488-all-black.html

Edit: It is not worth ordering here in Finland, transport of two tires is $ 126 !!!

Yes, that is the C-1488 in size 18x2.5”. And at a quarter of the Amazon price!

I have also noticed that US shipping prices are quite high, on all products. EU or Aliexpress is where we order everything.

[seage]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

For the 18XL? There’s one at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/18x2-50-64-Inner-Tube-Electric/dp/B00SVA0YJI/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=18+2.5+tire&qid=1588309138&sr=8-1

Personally I’d put any other tire on my own EUC for my own riding environments.

 Searching for “Msuper v3 tire” on EBay for example should bring up the CST C-1488, which is vastly superior if you ever ride on wet parts, dirt or off-road. From what I remember the CST also does tight turns nicer on the 18XL.

And this tire holds its shape and stays up? My main issue is, i like to KINDA motorcycle turn my wheel. Lean over to the side and pull it with my bodyweight as it stays up. Right now, that doesnt happen, no matter the pressure. Think of how your tire rides at an extremely low psi. So im hoping for a replacement that allows for that. 

Past that, this was my old tire, wondering if i'll just put it back on for the time being, since i havent completely balded the tread LOL. 

[seage]

7 hours ago, mozart said:

Onko tämä sopiva KS 18l / xl?

https://www.huskybicycles.com/cst-bicycle-tire-18x250-c-1488-all-black.html

Edit: It is not worth ordering here in Finland, transport of two tires is $ 126 !!!

Nice find. I just ran through and checked. $45 ground shipping from Texas to Ontario, Canada EXCLUDING customs? Lol.. What the hec?

[seage]

Oh i wanted to ask one last thing. Because I was always wondering if this was the major issue with the replacement I was sold. If a tire is not rated for Electric Vehicles, like all the ones you guys have recommended, does that make a huge difference? The one i have on now is just an anti puncture, but it doesnt have that "ELECTRIC" sign on the side. 

[mozart]

The actual EUC tires are not made, all are for bicycles or children’s motorcycles.

[seage]

1 hour ago, mozart said:

The actual EUC tires are not made, all are for bicycles or children’s motorcycles.

I know theres no tire for EUC's. Im speaking about the ones that say electric ont hem and the ones that dont. I wonder if the ones "For" electric actually have maybe a stronger sidewall or something. (Who knowS)

[tudordewolf]

3 hours ago, seage said:

I know theres no tire for EUC's. Im speaking about the ones that say electric ont hem and the ones that dont. I wonder if the ones "For" electric actually have maybe a stronger sidewall or something. (Who knowS)

What I've heard is basically along those lines; thicker tread and a stiffer compound, maybe a puncture-resistant layer, the assumption being that an electric bike/vehile tire is going to be under more stress in general than a bike tire, but the trade-off in rolling resistance is worth the extra durability.

[Elliott Reitz]

On 4/29/2020 at 4:43 PM, ZenRyder said:

I have tried the SR241 & the SR244 and I agree with several of your findings. This is a small club who have tried them both and are able to make a comparison so thanks for posting your review. I concur that the SR241 is twitchier and makes more road noise. 

I found the SR241 was harder to fit in the case that the SR244. I also had to grind out some of the shell to make the 244 fit and then when I put in the SR241, it was too tight to run at higher pressure. I felt like I had to sand down the SR241 even further than the SR244 in order to run it. While the traction was pretty good, definitely better than stock, I didn't think it was near as good as the SR244 on the trail. So, I think we're in agreement there. 

I have not tried that Knobby 2.5", but I'm tempted for sure. Right now, I took off the SR241 and put the SR244 back on. It is truly my favorite dual sport tire. Not too loud and annoying in the street and a beast on the trails. I do not have problems with torque at low speeds. It's true it's a larger tire, so maybe your feeling that, but I just don't feel there are any negatives worth mentioning other than getting it to fit right.

In fact, I think getting the right balance of the tire when mounted is a big part of it. Adding some lube to the rim and inflating slowly helps to avoid a lopsided mount.

So its interesting you think the SR241 was the tighter fit vs SR244 and I found the opposite.  Maybe grind-down method was better for the SR241.    Both tires did require knob-shaving to be able to close the case and not clamp the wheel too-tight to spin (is the MSP wider than MSX???).  With the SR244 I spent a couple hours with an angle grinder grinding each knob down by about 1/8".  But with the SR241 I left the screws loose enough to let the wheel turn.  Then I took it outside, powered up, and spun it against a cement block to grind down the knobs. 

As for road noise, the knobby is loudest though I don't think its loud enough to be annoying.  The SR244 and the knobby both felt like they had extra drag that reduced the top-speed vs command authority to the point I rarely went over 25 with either of them.  The SR244 felt like it ate up the torque the wheel as though the diameter was bigger.  The SR241 feels like the stock wheel to me. I don't feel the road-drag from the knobs or torque reduction-sensation. 

BTW, Sacha from Utica NY visited for a ride around Syracuse.  We did 18 miles, and I took the wheel up to 30 mph with the SR241 on it.  The breaking at the end of my 30mph was abrupt with some wobble, but the seat helps me grip to dampen that.  {"little speed run" vid with Sacha added, but that one only gets to 20mph}

So with 100 miles on the SR241, also on the SR244, and 700 miles on the knobby, my choices going forward are:

1. Spring-Summer-Fall: - keep the SR241.  It rides like the stock tire on hard surfaces while having at least some off road abilities to handle wet grass and easy trails.

2. Winter:  Use the knobby.  Its far and away better traction in mud and snow than either of the SR24_ tires.  (most road-noise and vibration on feet, but if traction is needed that's worth it)

{+vid}

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Elliott Reitz
+ vid with Sacha

[mrelwood]

12 minutes ago, Elliott Reitz said:

So its interesting you think the SR241 was the tighter fit vs SR244 and I found the opposite.

The CST C-186 looks near identical to the SR241 with even rows of knobs, but behaves absolutely nothing like a regular non-knobby tire. The tire falls late into turns, needs to be tiled much more for tight turns, and has to be manually forced back upright. Based on some of the comments I can’t help but think that they might have confused the SR241 and SR244 model names...

[Elliott Reitz]

4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

The CST C-186 looks near identical to the SR241 with even rows of knobs, but behaves absolutely nothing like a regular non-knobby tire. The tire falls late into turns, needs to be tiled much more for tight turns, and has to be manually forced back upright. Based on some of the comments I can’t help but think that they might have confused the SR241 and SR244 model names...

No, my comments about the ride and different feel are intact.  Though I can't say which is the tighter fit requiring the most knob-shaving (my shaving methods were different for the 2 tires) ... if that's what you mean.

I just looked at the wheel to confirm I have the SR241 (not the CST) on it. It actually says Shinko Trail Tire then smaller has SR241-02. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Elliott Reitz

[ZenRyder]

10 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

So its interesting you think the SR241 was the tighter fit vs SR244 and I found the opposite.  Maybe grind-down method was better for the SR241.    Both tires did require knob-shaving to be able to close the case and not clamp the wheel too-tight to spin (is the MSP wider than MSX???).  With the SR244 I spent a couple hours with an angle grinder grinding each knob down by about 1/8".  But with the SR241 I left the screws loose enough to let the wheel turn.  Then I took it outside, powered up, and spun it against a cement block to grind down the knobs. 

I opened the wheel housing and widened it so the wheel would spin in the housing. Then I suspended the wheel from a ladder and then used a piece of wood zip tied to the handle to tilt the wheel in the right direction until it was going about 30 mph. Then I held coarse sand paper to the side of the tire. That worked out pretty well for me. But I totally agree that I am probably influenced by how I modified each one to make them fit.

Glad you're enjoying your wheel and the great traction options that are out there. Plus, i appreciate hearing your point of view. Thanks! 

[Lutalo]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:21 AM, Elliott Reitz said:

Comparisons

Installation: The SR244 required 1/8" more tire shaving than the SR241 to fit into the MSX shell.  I saw someone on YT with an SR244 on an MS Pro that looked like it fit without shaving so I wonder if the MSP shell is 1/4" or so wider. 

Compare Tires vs Riding:  The SR241 is much quicker both turning and accel/decel... on pavement, smoothest too.  On Dirt, the SR244 was closer to the knobby for traction but truly real big pig at slow speeds.  So I liked the knobby better than the SR244.  As for speed, I've not had any of my non-stock tires over 25 mph very often ... mostly command-authority and/or wobble-prone/or overlean sense of over-lean-risk.  The SR241 is most road speed oriented of these 3 (MX, SR244, SR241), and also the least mud/snow worthy.  I've only had the SR241 out for a few miles at speed so far, and my sense of it is that its twitcy (a good thing) at low speed like the e+, with a severe wobble at 25 mph (baaad).   The SR244 seemed sluggish going slow & slippery such as where an aggressive tread might be nice to have. The SR244 didn't wobble but it maxed out torque/command-authority at about 25 mph.  The SR241 wobble seemed hit at 25mph and stabilize (still scary) by more lean with more knee bend and just letting it "work" as I out-sped the osculation frequency (yet I prolly only reached 26 or 27 mph). 

Conclusion:  Don't bother with an SR244 on an MSX.  MSP might be good due to extra torque and possibly less tire-saving if the shell is actually wider (my impression from vid of MSP).

Thanks for sharing your impressions of the 241 vs the 244. It’s what I was looking for since I’ve recently purchased both a Shinko SR241 and 244 for my MSP about a week ago. I’ve put several hundred miles on my MSP. Awesome machine, but more about power than speed. Given that, I intend to use my MSP almost entirely for off-road adventures going forward, and use my other faster wheels for shred’n streets. I like the vintage trial tire tread pattern of the 241, and based on most of the Motocross reviews I’ve read those riders seem to prefer the 241 over the 244 for trail riding overall. Since they are working with two wheels instead of one, their preferences might not translate all that well to EUC riding. My broken wrist is healing right now so I won’t be able to ride for at least another 4 or 5 weeks, but I’ll pop on the 241 and see how it fits since I am not planning on any deep mudding or snowplowing; just dry-to-damp mostly packed, but very technical dirt MTB trails.

As far as the width of the MSP vs the MSX, I’m actually not sure if the wheel well is wider. The motor is wider by a centimeter; 7.5cm vs 6.5cm. Not certain that a mere centimeter is enough to force pushing the wheel well further apart. Nevertheless, the Gotway spec sheet lists identical dimensions for the MSP and MSX; 22” height, 17.3”/9.0” width, 19.3” length. Their dimensions report could be convenience based and satisfied with ballpark figures though. Couple of millimeters left or right might not matter to them, but it becomes an important issue for those of us who hope to not need to shave the edges of a brand new tire

[Elliott Reitz]

5 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Thanks for sharing your impressions of the 241 vs the 244. It’s what I was looking for since I’ve recently purchased both a Shinko SR241 and 244 for my MSP about a week ago. I’ve put several hundred miles on my MSP. Awesome machine, but more about power than speed. Given that, I intend to use my MSP almost entirely for off-road adventures going forward, and use my other faster wheels for shred’n streets. I like the vintage trial tire tread pattern of the 241, and based on most of the Motocross reviews I’ve read those riders seem to prefer the 241 over the 244 for trail riding overall. Since they are working with two wheels instead of one, their preferences might not translate all that well to EUC riding. My broken wrist is healing right now so I won’t be able to ride for at least another 4 or 5 weeks, but I’ll pop on the 241 and see how it fits since I am not planning on any deep mudding or snowplowing; just dry-to-damp mostly packed, but very technical dirt MTB trails.

As far as the width of the MSP vs the MSX, I’m actually not sure if the wheel well is wider. The motor is wider by a centimeter; 7.5cm vs 6.5cm. Not certain that a mere centimeter is enough to force pushing the wheel well further apart. Nevertheless, the Gotway spec sheet lists identical dimensions for the MSP and MSX; 22” height, 17.3”/9.0” width, 19.3” length. Their dimensions report could be convenience based and satisfied with ballpark figures though. Couple of millimeters left or right might not matter to them, but it becomes an important issue for those of us who hope to not need to shave the edges of a brand new tire

Glad to.  FWIW, the MSP's extra torque might make the SR244 better than it is on the MSX.  On the MSX it seems to speed-torque/authority limit around 25 (w/o big strong confident pushing ancles bite of a lean), just like the knobby does.  Now more riding the SR241 today... its the best tire for spring/summer in Syracuse NY.  Winter here the knobby is best.  (In My Humble Opinion, IMHO)

[Elliott Reitz]

So I just ordered a KS-S18.  Does anyone know if the same tires that fit the MSX will fit the S18?  If not, what's the closest to the SR241 for the S18?

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Elliott Reitz said:

So I just ordered a KS-S18.  Does anyone know if the same tires that fit the MSX will fit the S18?  If not, what's the closest to the SR241 for the S18?

The shell does look tighter to me than on the MSX, so fitting MC tires might be a bigger of an issue than on the MSX.

[Elliott Reitz]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The shell does look tighter to me than on the MSX, so fitting MC tires might be a bigger of an issue than on the MSX.

Well I guess I will find out.  I noticed in the pics that the fender looks easy to remove... and to duck-tape whatever may need protection in that space... so the main thing will be if I have to do as much or more knob shaving.  Are they the same diameter tires?  Like the 2.75"x14", vs KS = 18", vs MSX = 19? ???  Or is it actually like a moped-13" or something else???  I'm definately hoping its the same and that the 2200W might make it torque'ey enough to run the SR244.  If anyone here knows the actual diameter and its different than the MSX then I'll be shoping for a tire for it that's similar agressive tread to the SR241 or SR244.  And mabye a knobby for winter.

[mrelwood]

 

48 minutes ago, Elliott Reitz said:

Are they the same diameter tires?  Like the 2.75"x14", vs KS = 18", vs MSX = 19? ???

19” (and 17”) tires do not exist, MSX has an 18x3.0” tire, same size as on the S18 and V11. The inner diameter is the same in all of them, but the outer diameter varies a lot. A wider tire is always taller, and some tires have a tread profile that makes them a bit taller as well.

48 minutes ago, Elliott Reitz said:

and that the 2200W might make it torque'ey enough to run the SR244.

Nominal motor power has zero effect in how much you have to lean to accelerate. KS medium and soft modes do have a slight advantage over all of the MSX modes though, but I doubt that it’s enough to overcome the large outer diameter of the 2.75-14 tires.

[Elliott Reitz]

34 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

19” (and 17”) tires do not exist, MSX has an 18x3.0” tire, same size as on the S18 and V11. The inner diameter is the same in all of them, but the outer diameter varies a lot. A wider tire is always taller, and some tires have a tread profile that makes them a bit taller as well.

Thanks, thus I will give the SR244 a try... may have to remove the S18 fender...

34 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Nominal motor power has zero effect in how much you have to lean to accelerate. KS medium and soft modes do have a slight advantage over all of the MSX modes though, but I doubt that it’s enough to overcome the large outer diameter of the 2.75-14 tires.

I've not yet ridden a KS wheel.  And I don't like the medium/soft modes on the MSX, and I don't like the softness of the Inmotion V10F.  The e+ stays level like the MSX... hoping for a hard-mode in the new S18.  Still, the shock absorber will be worth it no matter how hard/soft its command command-authority-vs-tilting-level really is. 

PS:  Put deposit on it with ewheels.  Jason said they were almost sold out of the initial order.  Its arrival here may be sometime in July (I hope). 

[Jesús Parrilla]

This tire is like buying a different unicycle totally .... That is my feeling, the difference is cheaper instead of spending money on a new unicycle, the subject of turns I personally turn the same.  About going at speeds ... The wheel sounds like a formula 1 ..... It is magnificent ... According to different terrains ... This tire is wider than the original, I would highly recommend having one of these tires.

 I bring it to 1.9 bar pressure and I weigh about 81 kg

 Tire: cst c-186 2.75x14