The Fat Unicyclist Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 21 hours ago, Mimolette said: Kingsong apparently did a prototype, the KS-Power but strange enough it only appears in a single French video The KS-Power isn't a prototype... It is a "proper" product available from King Song! All it needs now is to get the local dealers to bring it in!!! And as an FYI for New Zealand riders, we are looknig to include a few of these in our next order - please let us know if you are interested and we will ensure we bring in enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mishkin Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 (edited) On 9/13/2019 at 10:14 PM, The Fat Unicyclist said: The KS-Power isn't a prototype... It is a "proper" product available from King Song! All it needs now is to get the local dealers to bring it in!!! And as an FYI for New Zealand riders, we are looknig to include a few of these in our next order - please let us know if you are interested and we will ensure we bring in enough. I saw this on the website the other day actually. Specs below.... what would be a meaningful charge you'd actually get from something like this? Power Bank for Personal Electric Vehicle Input AC 80~240 V, out put DC 42V (2A/5A) Proper temperature: -10℃/+60℃ Net weight: Approx. 4.5Kg Maximum output power: 420W Size:177mm(H） x284mm(L） X 90mm（Max width） Output ripple:<50mV Efficiency:>90% Include:One charger / one manual / one warranty card, / certificate, / all-in-one output cable All-in-one output cable:Small aviation plug (1 positive 2 negative), large aviation plug (1 positive 3 negative), flat mouth plug (inside negative external positive), DC plug (inside positive and negative). (Note: Please confirm that the positive and negative plugs and the polarity of the product input are correct before charging.) Edited September 15, 2019 by Mishkin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WI_Hedgehog Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 On 2/1/2019 at 6:59 AM, US69 said: When you use just a additional batterypack and plug it to the chargeport it is more or less just another parrallel pack This is how it works with a unified charge port on the BMS, which is what EUCs seem to be using (a split port works as charge only). Because charging and discharging cells is not 100% efficient, the optimal usage is to run the external pack as a booster pack in parallel with the main batteries while riding. Parallel packs have a lower per-pack output current and last longer than using each pack individually (less stress, less power lost to internal resistance/heat). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryJackPCB Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 What is the estimated cost of a battery pack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Struck Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) Sorry for bumping this. I just saw on ewheels that the new KS S18 has the option to extend range with this battery bank, but misteriously this battery bank does not appear anywhere. Is it still a thing, or the ewheels comparison is made so that ks comes better compared to the V11? Cheers! Edited June 19, 2020 by Struck Add image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Hatfield Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I emailed and asked - the 780wh one is $650. I don't think it is listed on the webpage. It is still a thing - I didn't realize how long these external chargers have been out. Seems like a perfect addition to the s18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) On 6/20/2020 at 1:28 AM, Ben Hatfield said: I emailed and asked - the 780wh one is $650. I don't think it is listed on the webpage. It is still a thing - I didn't realize how long these external chargers have been out. Seems like a perfect addition to the s18 Indeed. I love large batteries for range (the reason I'm getting a Sherman, not a S18), but dont need to lug it around every time. I wonder how much of those 780Wh make it as charge on the internal battery. (the efficiency) edit: the connector should also be stronger or stabilized ideally, as there will be play / stress. Edited June 23, 2020 by null 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 KS suggested using the KS external battery (720Wh?) to compensate for the S18 battery. This has pros and cons, but might be an interesting option. Do anyone know what kind of loss we can expect? Between the (say) 720Wh contained by the external battery, and how much of these effectively end up in the internal battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 The only advantage is that one can recharge the battery in the wilderness far away from a power outlet and a charger. But the problem is that you can't reach the wilderness with the tiny battery. Hmmm, should I really enumerate all the negative things about such a battery? Maybe it is enough to mention that the external battery is only for charging and cannot directly supply the motor during the ride. How long do you want to ride around and have the whole time the cable connected which is hindering you. Only a matter of time until the charging port is defective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) Thanks, yes its impractical, but the question wasn't about the pro and cons, it was about how much of the Wh would end up in the internal battery. We can skip the entire part about KS power and EUCs: Anyone knows how much Wh loss there would be charging one battery from another? Edited June 20, 2020 by null Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 27 minutes ago, null said: Anyone knows how much Wh loss there would be charging one battery from another? Edited 9 minutes ago by null Back 20 years ago the loss was quite a bit. 30-50% . Today I think the loss is less than 20%. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) Thanks for the information, even though much better than before it's not negligible then. Edited June 20, 2020 by null Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnWheels Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 I guess it's input = output + heat produced. So I guess it's quite close to 100% efficiency and drop to 0% when both voltages of input and output are equal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Struck Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) On 6/20/2020 at 1:28 AM, Ben Hatfield said: I emailed and asked - the 780wh one is $650. I don't think it is listed on the webpage. It is still a thing - I didn't realize how long these external chargers have been out. Seems like a perfect addition to the s18 How is it a thing, and is not in the webpage? And on which webpage? This is weird A.F. because this is not just a bunch of cells and a BMS, it needs more electronics to control the amps delivered, it surely needs a dc-dc transformer (or several).. And not offered to the wide market? And I guess you have contacted the ewheels page... but, where is it on the kingsong official page? Do they sell kingsong products that not even kingsong promote? thx EDIT: Powerbank exists in the official kingsong page: https://www.kingsong.com/list-45.html But not in https://www.kingsong-europe.com/ or https://www.kingsong.es/ or any other store... Edited June 23, 2020 by Struck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric Dreams Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 16 hours ago, Struck said: How is it a thing, and is not in the webpage? And on which webpage? This is weird A.F. because this is not just a bunch of cells and a BMS, it needs more electronics to control the amps delivered, it surely needs a dc-dc transformer (or several).. And not offered to the wide market? And I guess you have contacted the ewheels page... but, where is it on the kingsong official page? Do they sell kingsong products that not even kingsong promote? thx EDIT: Powerbank exists in the official kingsong page: https://www.kingsong.com/list-45.html But not in https://www.kingsong-europe.com/ or https://www.kingsong.es/ or any other store... The two other links are from dealers, not operated by KS HQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamIan Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 The King Song External Power Supply .. can supply power .. while the wheel is in use .. I've seen people do this with other King Song wheel , by putting it in a back pack , and running the charge cord to the wheel from the back pack. Thus .. you can get the charge rate input while you are discharging .. thus increasing the range one can go before having to stop. For example , 2.5A x 84v = ~210watt from external 780wh power bank .. if you are riding the wheel at a ~420watt consumption rate , than 210w come from external and 210w come from internal. Again .. not ideal .. and no where near the wheel's max power rates .. but yes , it can be used to extend the range. As for efficiency .. I would expect to loose 10-20% of the 780Wh in the conversion .. electronics , and wheels' internal battery cycle efficiency. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamIan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 French Video of using the King Song external battery in a back pack with a wheel. If you use it for for on the go charging at the max of 5A x 84v = ~420watts. If you get the largest 780wh external battery (in your back pack) .. it will take a minimum of 780/420= ~111 minutes to discharge the external into the wheel. If you had a KS-S18 with 1100 wh base + 780wh in back pack = ~1880wh combined over ~111 minutes = average use rate of ~1016 watts over that ~111 minutes .. any faster watt use rate and you'll run out of internal battery faster than external .. any slower watt use rate you (ride for more minutes) and run out of external battery faster than internal battery. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Trying to use that while riding without some sort of quick-release/breakaway cable i think is a bit crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Struck Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 3:14 AM, Jack King Song said: The two other links are from dealers, not operated by KS HQ Yes, but still, it doesn't look like it can be bought anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamIan Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 E-wheels told me 5-31-20 that they had the 780wh size in stock. So , If you want to buy one .. just contact them. yeah it's odd they haven't listed it on their web store .. but you can still just contact them and buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Struck Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 E-Wheels US only (+ Canada). For the time being I don't want the battery pack, I am just surprised that it exists nowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Barcia Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Folks, I have a ks-16S ...67v So, my friend got this ebike external battery pack... Can I take advantage safely? It is a 60V 12Ah,lets say 720wh... Sure it got its own BMS as you'll charge this to the wall directly... As I've read before, If I charge this on the wall to 100% and I charge the EUC to 100, and then I plug it, and then I boot/start the euc, should it be all ok? ¿Or am I missing something? tks in adv for any feedback! A 16s "1560wh" sounds attractive indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy152 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 i would imagine it's only going to work once ur device gets under 60v as im assuming ur trying to plug the external into the normal charging port 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 44 minutes ago, someguy152 said: would imagine it's only going to work once ur device gets under 60v 60V should be just the nominal voltage. So 67.2V if fully charged... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Struck Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) On 6/30/2020 at 11:08 PM, Seba Barcia said: Folks, I have a ks-16S ...67v So, my friend got this ebike external battery pack... Can I take advantage safely? It is a 60V 12Ah,lets say 720wh... Sure it got its own BMS as you'll charge this to the wall directly... As I've read before, If I charge this on the wall to 100% and I charge the EUC to 100, and then I plug it, and then I boot/start the euc, should it be all ok? ¿Or am I missing something? tks in adv for any feedback! A 16s "1560wh" sounds attractive indeed The external battery pack is meant for charging another battery pack? If not I wouldn't do it. You need something to limit the amps. When charging a battery pack what limits the amps is the charger. I do not expect neither that battery or the charging port of the kingsong wheel to have an amp limiter when charging. Be careful! EDIT: Okay, I see you meant to have both be discharged at the same time by matching voltages at the beginning.. I think this would be fine.. Just make sure you measure the voltage before you connect them and don't assume anything. There is just the issue that 10amps may flow through a wire (in the wheel) that is not expecting more than 2/3 when charging. Btw, regenerative braking will only be sent to the ewheel battery (I am pretty sure there is a diode there preventing outflow). But since then the external battery will have then lower voltage, this seems feasible. Edited July 2, 2020 by Struck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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