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Jason McNeil

King Song Battery Bank for Extra Range

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Looks interesting. Another option for eq KS18L owners to get near XL range opportunity. 

I guess you need a break or rest at some point. Now this gives charging option when you don't have access to a wall plug. I guess you could bring 2 these and double charge which would be nice at 2x5amps. 

Hmm this makes choices much more complicated now.

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13 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Looks interesting. Another option for eq KS18L owners to get near XL range opportunity. 

I guess you need a break or rest at some point. Now this gives charging option when you don't have access to a wall plug. I guess you could bring 2 these and double charge which would be nice at 2x5amps. 

Hmm this makes choices much more complicated now.

I would prefer if I am off the beaten trail to be recharging the XL vs the L; especially, because I would get more range between charges. 

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Quite recently I was thinking about designing a charger equipped with an additional rechargeable battery as a backup source. Just in case of not reaching planned charging point before battery exhaustion. Eventually, I realized that it would be too heavy to carry in a backpack. If you're going on long distances, it's especially important to remember that you have something like your spine :D A much better solution from my point of view is a fast charger and charging at every possible opportunity. However, I think that there will be people interested in such a power bank.

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Nice option. Hopefully cables can be created for other 84v EUC.

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If the unicycle's battery is exhausted, do you run the unicycle directly from the external battery?  The external battery's weight is not a concern, but I am worried that the servants' horse might trample the cord. 

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12 hours ago, Biped Phil said:

If the unicycle's battery is exhausted, do you run the unicycle directly from the external battery?  The external battery's weight is not a concern, but I am worried that the servants' horse might trample the cord. 

Guess the way to think of the power-bank is charging-on-the-go, the input charge interfaces is only 5A, while a large capacity battery pack can pump out 10x this current. A optimum use-case strategy would to use it between 25%-75%, depending on the model. If the voltage has fallen below the limp-home mode, plugging in the external pack is not going to immediately raise the pack's voltage.  

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23 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

King Song have just come out with an external battery bank. Although it's intended for the eScooter products, they're considering making a version for the Electric Unicycle as well. With a max power output of 420W, 5A @ 84V, it's roughly equivalent to 18MPH cruising speed. 

It's not a perfect solution, but if you're looking to eek out some more ride time this could be an interesting product. 

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Hi Jason,

I am very interested in such a product. I "assume" you just plug it into the KS18L charging port in the 75 -25% rage of the main battery? Projected price?

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This powerbank would be a hard sell since we just Uber it when we run out of power.

However, if the PB also provided several outputs such as USB, usb-c, Apple,  and 110 plugs, then I could see its very large capacity being quite useful as a generic power source.

As an example, an EUC is a useful camping/roadtrip companion due to its compact size, but charging via an inverter is messy (mine doesn't seem to work with EUCs). Your powerbank can mostly charge all electronic devices.

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An external battery (in any form), optionally connected to the unicycle is not such a simple matter. If the internal battery has a different voltage than the external battery, there is a risk of severe sparking during connection, and consequently there is risk of burns to the user. In addition, battery that is more charged will charge the less charged one, which can cause the battery with a lower voltage to exceed the permissible charging current limit significantly. This can result in damage to the battery or even in a fire. These problems could be solved by using additional special electronics inside the EUC. However, this would increase the cost of the device, while reducing its reliability.

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On 1/18/2019 at 8:57 AM, Seba said:

An external battery (in any form), optionally connected to the unicycle is not such a simple matter. If the internal battery has a different voltage than the external battery, there is a risk of severe sparking during connection, and consequently there is risk of burns to the user. In addition, battery that is more charged will charge the less charged one, which can cause the battery with a lower voltage to exceed the permissible charging current limit significantly. This can result in damage to the battery or even in a fire. These problems could be solved by using additional special electronics inside the EUC. However, this would increase the cost of the device, while reducing its reliability.

Meh, that's just a training point to the buyer, to keep the voltages in line.

Many other PEV are doing external add-on batteries: Mini Motor Dualtron e-kick scooters and Dualtronman e-footbikes; DIY Chinese KS-18S / Gotway Monster riders who pack extra battery for trips to the Himalayas, etc; OneWheelers who DIY top-mounted extra battery packs for longer range.

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On 1/21/2019 at 9:14 PM, houseofjob said:

Meh, that's just a training point to the buyer, to keep the voltages in line.

Many other PEV are doing external add-on batteries: Mini Motor Dualtron e-kick scooters and Dualtronman e-footbikes; DIY Chinese KS-18S / Gotway Monster riders who pack extra battery for trips to the Himalayas, etc; OneWheelers who DIY top-mounted extra battery packs for longer range.

a quite dangerous training point to the buyer :-)

Yes, all those options you mentioned are “just” additional batterys which gave more Watthours. You have to have them plugged in from the start on. If you would plug in any off these solutions when the wheel battery is empty, while the additional batery is charged full, then happy venting/sparking/explosion :-)

The KS PowerBank goes around that limitations, you can plug it in whenever you want...and still have all the advantages of “more watthour”.

It is usable to all Devices from 42 to 84 Volts, which. is also an advantage over just an additional added battery, so you might charge your scooter and/or different EUC types. The  best use case in my opinon is when going for longer rides...not knowing how long they go, no powercables available etc.

But i have to agree in general..we have to see if there is a market!

This beast has 60cells...half of a 1600wh/1554wh wheel size battery, and as cells are expensive.....dont exspect it to be a total cheapo :-)

 

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27 minutes ago, US69 said:

Yes, all those options you mentioned are “just” additional batterys which gave more Watthours. You have to have them plugged in from the start on. If you would plug in any off these solutions when the wheel battery is empty, while the additional batery is charged full, then happy venting/sparking/explosion :-)

The KS PowerBank goes around that limitations, you can plug it in whenever you want...and still have all the advantages of “more watthour”.

It is usable to all Devices from 42 to 84 Volts, which. is also an advantage over just an additional added battery, so you might charge your scooter and/or different EUC types. The  best use case in my opinon is when going for longer rides...not knowing how long they go, no powercables available etc.

But i have to agree in general..we have to see if there is a market!

Wait, so how would this work again? Plugging in this external KS PowerBank would start charging the main internal battery while you ride with it plugged in? And this KS PowerBank would smart-ly adjust to the correct voltage then?

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26 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Wait, so how would this work again? Plugging in this external KS PowerBank would start charging the main internal battery while you ride with it plugged in? And this KS PowerBank would smart-ly adjust to the correct voltage then?

Yip, to my understanding, yes...

Afaik -i learned that is has 4 different options, 42V, X?V, 67V, and 84 Volt option. while the last -84V- goes as automatic and adjust to any voltage from 42-84V.  So in automatic mode it would charge the battery from whatever voltage it is....

Again, to my understanding also while driving. But at least it charges on standstill no matter what voltage you are!

So it is definitely more than just “an additional” battery pack :-) 

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54 minutes ago, US69 said:

Yip, to my understanding, yes...

Afaik -i learned that is has 4 different options, 42V, X?V, 67V, and 84 Volt option. while the last -84V- goes as automatic and adjust to any voltage from 42-84V.  So in automatic mode it would charge the battery from whatever voltage it is....

Again, to my understanding also while driving. But at least it charges on standstill no matter what voltage you are!

So it is definitely more than just “an additional” battery pack :-) 

Wow, more interesting than I originally thought, thanks!

If they figure out how to make it double as a latching seat (hopefully taller than the stock seat) for my KS-18S, then I'm sold!

Edited by houseofjob
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Sounds interesting to me.  It has benefits.  If you want to go on a marathon ride you have that option, but are not saddled with the extra weight all the time.  It depends on the price I suppose.

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12 hours ago, US69 said:

Yip, to my understanding, yes...

Afaik -i learned that is has 4 different options, 42V, X?V, 67V, and 84 Volt option. while the last -84V- goes as automatic and adjust to any voltage from 42-84V.  So in automatic mode it would charge the battery from whatever voltage it is....

Again, to my understanding also while driving. But at least it charges on standstill no matter what voltage you are!

So it is definitely more than just “an additional” battery pack :-) 

I have noticed on my 16s, if it is on charge, and I turn the wheel on, it will not balance.  BUT, if it is already on and balancing, and then I connect the charger, it charges AND CONTINUES TO BALANCE.  So if you substitute a battery brick charger for the plugged in charger, you should have the same effect.  I actually thought of doing this with my ks14c battery (strapping it to the top of the wheel) which is just floating around waiting for me to fix the ks14. 

The way I understood what would happen (assuming the charger was plugged in while riding) is as the wheel batteries drain, the remote pack would keep topping them up until it was depleted, at which time the wheel batteries would then start to drain down conventionally.  So it wouldn't suddenly have the power of all the batteries combined, but the stock batteries would stay highly charged (less chance of a dangerous voltage sag) until the remote pack could no longer replenish them.

The other way (as imagined by the designs of this pack, I suspect), would be to take a break in riding and then plug the charger in while the wheel was stationary.

Edited by Smoother
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43 minutes ago, Smoother said:

The way I understood what would happen (assuming the charger was plugged in while riding) is as the wheel batteries drain, the remote pack would keep topping them up until it was depleted, at which time the wheel batteries would then start to drain down conventionally.  So it wouldn't suddenly have the power of all the batteries combined, but the stock batteries would stay highly charged (less chance of a dangerous voltage sag) until the remote pack could no longer replenish them; and of course more range.

When you use just a additional batterypack and plug it to the chargeport it is more or less just another parrallel pack (not real parallel, but  daisy chained, more or less the same).

But what would happen is that all batterys, Wheel and additional pack would be on the same voltage, as they try to equalize. Thats why it is highly important to have them both on same voltage when connecting…..

When using a "charger" or a Powerbank, there is no "equalization"...the Powerbank gives out the Energy in  controlled manner, like a charger, done by extra electronics.

Thats why i am not hundred percent sure that the "powerBank" would work on the Wheel while driving, but as you said: A Charger connected to a KS Wheel, also works, when connected after powering on. So i cant see why the PowerBank would not. I guess we will see :-)

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I think all EUCs should be designed such that the batteries are removable and replaceable for the benefit of convenience and range extension and perphaps, be brought on planes. Batteries then will be independently and separately inspected by customs.

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Bump,  just keeping this thread alive. Jason, I am still very interested and I awaiting news.

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On 2/2/2019 at 9:14 AM, scubadragosan said:

I think all EUCs should be designed such that the batteries are removable and replaceable for the benefit of convenience and range extension and perphaps, be brought on planes. Batteries then will be independently and separately inspected by customs.

Or just shipped- you can only carry 320Wh with you on a flight, but two-day shipping for just the batteries shouldn't be too pricy compared to the ticket price?

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