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I think i'm having Gyroscope Problems


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Hi everyone, 

I'm a beginner and have no experience with any other wheel (and close to none with this one) so i wanted to ask in here with people who are more experienced than I. I have the ks 16-s and over the past maybe 2 or so sessions I've noticed my pedals dipping a lot. I initially attributed this to the pressure in the tire, as i was riding quite low, then filled it up. But it feels like its a bit...extra? Yesterday when I went out I noticed it. When spinning around a basketball pole that was on uneven ground. If i spun in the direction of the downhill it would tilt me forward pretty hard then stable out when i stood still. And if i went uphill it would put me on my heels. But this was a very slight incline, it was no hill (Enough that kids could still play bball here), but today when trying to mount, it just tipped me forward. I keep thinking its human error, but I'm not quite sure now. Its also a pretty abrupt dip, its not slow. I've made 2 videos. One just walking it in the basement.  And one of me walking in my garage, set to medium riding mode. My garage has a slight incline so when i walk up it, the wheel tilts back, and down the wheel tilts forward. I don't remember feeling this before...

The app is updated to the latest it will let me download. In the first video it is set to experienced mode and the tire is around 48psi and the second is set to medium with the same tire pressure. The handle broke yesterday so we did a fix that stops it from locking (I'm getting a new one soon). But the wheel feels like its dipping WAY more than it used to and feels like its getting worse. Is this just something that comes with higher air pressure that i need to get used to? Its just strange because the tilt is even heavy when i'm just walking it ,and its something I didn't notice at all in my first few days with the wheel. 

Thanks everyone! 

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I have to recalibrate my KS16S every few months or so. Pedal dip always gets worse after time, with the pedals eventually pointing down quite far, and then it's time to recalibrate. I wonder what would happen by simply reversing the wheel on half the rides.

In my opinion the biggest drawback to pedal dip is while turning and the leading corner catches on the ground. Everything else you can conform to except catching your pedals on something, and it is for this reason that I even do calibration.

To confirm your wheel calibration was correct, simply grasp the wheel by the handle in closed postion and roll the wheel forward, then gently do a 180 turn. The wheel should stay dead level, yes? But in practice I've never gotten my KS16S perfect although it's very close; I mean I've used two movable walls with electronic levelers and I've still not gotten it perfect. If you stop rolling the wheel midway through the turn the pedal stays dipped forward, then slowly rights itself (why?!). Moving the wheel forward then causes the pedal dip to go away. Pedals dip backwards when braking yet suddenly tilt forward when you start turning?

I do notice there's no pedal dip if you blast through a corner without slowing down or speeding up; the pedals stay flat at higher speeds. This makes me believe the rate of turn has something to do with pedal dip.

In my opinion, since pedal behavior is consistent across all wheels (calibration just makes the behavior more mild), there's something in the algorithm that makes pedal dip unavoidable. Maybe newer wheels will have updated algorithms?

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12 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

In my opinion, since pedal behavior is consistent across all wheels (calibration just makes the behavior more mild), there's something in the algorithm that makes pedal dip unavoidable. Maybe newer wheels will have updated algorithms?

I don't believe so. A good enough sensor will give the right numbers however it is positioned. And the wheel will use them directly. What could go wrong?

Also, I have never had to recalibrate my ACM in 5000+km and its nearly 2 years of age, it is rock-solid horizontal ever since the first good calibration.

But maybe you're right.

And the manufacturers might have poured oil on the fire by having their firmware have special quirks just to mitigate the shitty sensors. So different wheels may be more or less susceptible to the same sensor drift/dip. Maybe the 16S is more susceptible? Or it depends on something random like the positioning of the board, wheel geometry, something unexpected like this, whether the sensor is easily confused or not?

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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I don't believe so. A good enough sensor will give the right numbers however it is positioned. And the wheel will use them directly. What could go wrong?

Also, I have never had to recalibrate my ACM in 5000+km and its nearly 2 years of age, it is rock-solid horizontal ever since the first good calibration.

But maybe you're right.

And the manufacturers might have poured oil on the fire by having their firmware have special quirks just to mitigate the shitty sensors. So different wheels may be more or less susceptible to the same sensor drift/dip. Maybe the 16S is more susceptible? Or it depends on something random like the positioning of the board, wheel geometry, something unexpected like this, whether the sensor is easily confused or not?

All my wheels are a few years old but then again so is your ACM. And all five of my wheels, from different companies, exhibit the same pedal dip under the same conditions.

It kinda pisses me off.

Here's some advertising for vibration gyros. Is this what our EUCs use?

https://www5.epsondevice.com/en/information/technical_info/gyro/

If this is so, wouldn't you need two of these not just one? Perhaps six for redundancy. One for left and right tilt, and one for front and back, and it seems if you rotate the wheel then both gyros (not just the left and right title) are affected, due simply to the gyros not being dead center in the wheel.

It seems very complicated yet all wheels exhibit this pedal dip in a turn behavior. It's consistent, well except for your ACM.

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My first wheel was an Inmotion V8. It would dip down a fair bit when doing tight turns especially if I were decelerating during the turn. 

Now my KS18L do not have this behaviour as severe but it do still happen a little. But the major difference is the KS18L feels much more intuitive and stable, which leads to more confident in the wheel and how anticipate its behavior. 

This is why I love my KS18L so much. It ozzes quality to me. How a KS16S is in this context and its normal model behaviour is I can't say. It might be different. 

Right now I face a scrap or major repair job due inner and outer shell is far more damaged after the tumble the V8 did when I had an accident with clost to full speed aka 30ish kmh. At first it behaved were oddly kinda like standing on a surfboard on a wave passing under it as you padel put to sea. So I face repair cost of 200 to 250ish £ and moving all parts to a new shell. 

So I had briefly looked at KS16S or KS14D as a short distance low speed and practice wheel to train ambidextrous start or step up if you like and backwards riding and penduling or idling. That is why your thread catched my eye.

@US69 I know you have a lot experience with different brands and wheels. Do the KS14D, KS14S, KS16S behave different to the KS18L as dip down during turning?

I don't think my V8 was special or faulty as I tested another V8 that felt the same way.

 

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