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Msx 82v is some battery faulty


stephen

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I've just been looking through my fully charged screenshots i often take them for reference and they are mostly on 95% 81.6v how long do you have to leave it on charge when the green light is on to reach 84v  , I've left it on ages before when in at work but always 81.6v when i get home I'm sure if i leave it in charge tonight when i wake it will be in 81.6v from 82v lol it always has been the case seems to settle there🤔

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Don't care so much about the voltage. Maybe the CD is confusing/wrongly calibrated, or just shows a different voltage when charging (current going in) vs. when it's just powered by the wheel with no charger attached (current going out). There can be quite the variation. And these voltage numbers aren't very exact anyways. Battery needs time to settle, too.

If you want a definite good voltage number, get a voltmeter and measure the charge port or (better) the battery-to-board plug, and the charger to see if the CD is right.

It also can't hurt to open the wheel (right side panel) and just have a look if everything seems alright. Maybe check that you didn't accidentally get a 1300Wh wheel (650Wh per battery instead of 800Wh, there's stickers on the battery packs).

The bigger mystery here is the range. That's just not ok. Again, what did Ian in his MSX range test video get? That should be an absolute plausible minimum because his ranges are always horrible:D

18 minutes ago, stephen said:

And btw my biggest gripe is what i cant understand and posted before is my battery shows 80% after 5-8 mile with no load weight on it ..this is qhere i think im missing range

I can charge to 101% (actual 84V) and after 5km it will be around 90%, too. Can happen very quick. These detail numbers are always not too accurate/reliable, but the end result counts. And 30-35 instead of 50 miles for 1600Wh is the end result, that's just hardly explicable.

You can ask Ian, too, maybe he has more experience with this kind of issue?

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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4 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Maybe the CD is confusing/wrongly calibrated, or just shows a different voltage when charging (current going in

I only bought the cd because wheellog never shown over 81.6v,

6 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

That's just not ok. Again, what did Ian in his MSX range test video get?

Ian got 30miles to 😊

8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It also can't hurt to open the wheel (right side panel) and just have a look if everything seems alright. Maybe check that you didn't accidentally get a 1300Wh wheel (650Wh per battery instead of 800Wh, there's stickers on the battery packs).

I've open it once just to check see if anything looks ok I'll try again but i did have a fight with the pedal pin can i take the side off without the pedal.

I'm going to leave the charger on all night and see what it's at in the morning and I'll post again the results ..

Thx guys :)

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4 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Oh dear. I might have bad news for you... your wheel might be working exactly as expected. Weight + low tire pressure + cold weather + UK curse = :eff0541f4a:

I wonder if that can be it.

It still don't explain the voltage lol 😀😀aaah well i love the wheel it's amazing 😊

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17 hours ago, stephen said:

It still don't explain the voltage lol 😀😀aaah well i love the wheel it's amazing 😊

Unfortunately I'm out of ideas. I'm afraid you're on your own now. I will say that you'll probably get substantially more range if you go with high tire pressure. I know higher pressures can feel off-putting, but maybe give it a try. Let yourself get used to riding with hard tires. Maybe an extra 10-miles will be worth it. I know I'd feel cheated (at circumstances) if I could only get 30-miles from my 1600wh wheels. That means you'll be lucky to get 20-miles from your Z10 :crying:

Edited by Marty Backe
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Thanks guys for the info I've sent email to Ian at speedfeet just so he can explain anything,, I'm happy with the wheel i just can't understand the constant 81.6v my theory is if i see 84v and still only got 30 miles i wouldn't be bothered but because it says 81.6v i think there's something wrong and i maybe just maybe get more miles 😊😊

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Ok...

here what i know!

To make it short:

The wheel SHOULD charge up to 84Volts!

It is NOT correct that for a GW a „100% charge is 82,25 Volts“ or whatever...Full charge for a cell on all wheels is 4,2 Volts per cells.

An app can tell you a bit less like 83,5 or so...because of whatever circumstances..but not 82 Volt! see down here!

 

So there are different things that can go wrong:

1. the charge doctor can be set to 90% aka 82 Volt...(which it is NOT when you receive it)

2. the charge port protective diode can make the charge be lower...but just about 0,6-0,9Volt...not 2 Volts!

(its a nice move to have this charge port protection...but when having that, the charger voltage must be set up 0,6-0,9 Volts higher, to equalize the diode)

2. BMS or charger sligthly defect...i didnt read every one comment...but seams it is NOT the CD...and not the Diode...so something is not running like it should!

PERHAPS the BMS dont jump into balancing...as THIS would match up with the 82,5 volt number...where normaly balancing charge starts...Constant voltage instead of constant amperage...

Measure the charger with charge doctor alone...what does it show?

Then there is another thing that might come into account: When using a fast charger, this builds up high resistance...so when using a fast charger to charge full...you can  come up wih slightly lower mac voltage..but again..not 2! Volts...

 

So a lot todo to find out whats wrong...needing a voltmeter to check the charger at least...

If i am nit answering here contact me on PM..sorry, please, very busy!

 

 

Edited by US69
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37 minutes ago, US69 said:

It is NOT correct that for a GW a „100% charge is 82,25 Volts“ or whatever...Full charge for a cell on all wheels is 4,2 Volts per cells.

Nobody said that;)

At 4.1125V the firmware reports 100% battery (= 82.25V). So the app will show 100%. But you can keep charging to 4.2V.

So 100% charge means 100% battery readout. Not full charge. 2 different things, apparently.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Nobody said that;)

At 4.1125V the firmware reports 100% battery (= 82.25V). So the app will show 100%. But you can keep charging to 4.2V.

So 100% charge vs. 100% battery readout. 2 different things, apparently.

Yes, absolutely :-)

that are two different things! Most apps show 100% from 82 or 82,5 Volt on! 

But accuratly this isnt full voltage and all wheels should be able to load up to 84volt...or at least 83,5, taking the safety diode into account.

And from my experience this last 1-2 volts makes a lot of difference range wise!

And btw: Always take the original apps to talk about percentage, as wheellog and DB only gives an average over all brands!

For example 18L/XL series are going much more down with battery as 3rd party apps would be able to show...

Edited by US69
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My MSX isn't fully charged, but here's a screen shot from WheelLog of my just-fully charged MSuper V3s+. It was on the charger many hours past full.

Screenshot_20190113-143528

 

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I haven't been following this thread but I had a low voltage battery issue a while back on my Tesla and it turned out to be a bad connection (small 2 pin connector) on the small circuit board next to the battery... I have not had to open my MSX for any reason but you may want to just ck all your connectors before you start to get crazy which is what I was doing... 

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19 hours ago, US69 said:

the charge doctor can be set to 90% aka 82 Volt...(which it is NOT when you receive it)

Charged doctor When i plugged it in it said 82v so I've now changed it to 84v which it never reaches over 82.6 on load the voltage actually drops if i leave it in longer , so fully charged again for me is 81.6v 95% it's never been 100% and reached 82.6v a few times only if i plug it out, if i leave charger in it  actually drops to 81.6v  95%  

 

19 hours ago, US69 said:

Measure the charger with charge doctor alone...what does it show

It measured 82.6v 

 

19 hours ago, US69 said:

Then there is another thing that might come into account: When using a fast charger, this builds up high resistance...so when using a fast charger to charge full...you can  come up wih slightly lower mac voltage..but again..not 2! Volts

I have stock charger and fast charger both give save result 

 

18 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

At 4.1125V the firmware reports 100% battery (= 82.25V). So the app will show 100%. But you can keep charging to 4.2V.

So 100% charge means 100% battery readout. Not full charge. 2 different things, apparently.

Mines never ever reached 100% in 4 months my voltage and percentage is before every ride fully charged is 95% battery 81.6v always

 

18 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

If you have the ChargeDoctor plugged into the charger, but not the Wheel, is it displaying ~82v?

I'll check tonight didn't do that one. I have 2 chargers though fast and stock and tried both

 

18 hours ago, US69 said:

And btw: Always take the original apps to talk about percentage, as wheellog and DB only gives an average over all brands

But gotway shows 100% even at 91 cause it only goes up in increments of 10 and doesn't show voltage .

 

So guys these are the first 4-5 miles today i did a few screenshots , obviously first one is 95%battery 81.6v which i always start at cause i have no choice ,,, it settles at that,,, i think 4 miles and down to 83% is wrong ,i was going slightly down hill and then flat road ,i got off the euc and waited a minute so there was no load , in sure in deffo losing somewhere at the top of my battery. Thx guys for answers I've contacted speedfeet yesterday but still no answer as yet its now 4pm in the uk so here's had time to answer , I'll answer more of your solutions soon as i can thx for everything 

I've just looked at all my screenshots since i bought the msx and the ones i have took ,, randomly,, when fully charged say 81.6v 95%battery which is why i bought the charge doctor for a second opinion and it's still the same 

Thanks

Screens

Screenshot_20190114_102433_com.cooper.wheellog.thumb.jpg.090eb3746a16c9b0c8655fff610bbe32.jpg

Screenshot_20190114_152643_com.android.gallery3d.png

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@stephen

Something is fishy here…..

When you plug in the CD to the charger…(and not connect to the Wheel) it should definitly Show 84-84,5 Volt.....and not 82Volt.

Now there are two possible Things:

The CD is configured wrong and reads wrong voltage….or ...both chargers are to low voltage!

Both are very uncommon...because even IF the CD is showing wrong voltage...the charger would bring up the Wheel to 84Volt nonetheless.

But as your app Always only Shows 81,6-82Volt....it is more probable that both chargers are to low!!!

 

So:

You should definitly buy a voltage meter and check your chargers!!! Only with a voltage meter we can find out what is really wrong….

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10 minutes ago, stephen said:

I'll buy one tomorrow thx

You recommend any

Sorry, no clue...dont spend TO much Money.... a cheap one might do the Job!

We dont Need several numbers behind the Point....

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@stephen, continue to enjoy the MSX, by the looks of things your MSX can still out perform the majority of wheels we currently have. Don't spend countless money trying to resolve a minor problem, I would save my money and put it towards a Z10.

Edited by ED209
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6 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Is it maybe the outlet? Do you always put your chargers into the same one? Maybe a bad extension cord? Some kind of adapter gone bad? Not sure how much electrical sense that makes, but it's a possible common theme.

I have 2 chargers a fast and a stock i only bought the charge doctor to measure things as i thought something was not right, thanks appreciated

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19 minutes ago, ED209 said:

@stephen, continue to enjoy the MSX, by the looks of things your MSX can still out perform the majority of wheels we currently have. Don't spend countless money trying to resolve a minor problem

Oooh i am enjoying the wheel i love it that much that i don't want to come home after 30 miles cause of low battery 😊 i just love been on it 

Thx mate

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16 hours ago, US69 said:

You should definitly buy a voltage meter and check your chargers!!! Only with a voltage meter we can find out what is really wrong….

Buying a multimeter today just a question what setting do i put it on and what pins are +and-  on the msx thx 

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