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Luiz

When gotway will release a self balaced skateboard ?

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@Luiz is back!

Completely agree with you. It's a big mystery why no manufacturer wants to make bank with a Onewheel clone. They have the technology and are far ahead of actual Onewheels or any possible competition. Free money!

On 10/5/2018 at 3:48 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

Well, there's no competition in the Onewheel market. The best Onewheel would have to be <$1000 if it were a EUC, specs-wise. Also, apparently there are cut-outs galore due to bad hardware quality or the fact there's no audio warnings. Gotway 2 years ago was better than that.

It's a bit sad. Onewheels are kind of cool for people who want to ride sideways, much better than electric skateboards in where they can go.

If I were a EUC manufacturer, I'd build a waterproof, long-range, powerful Onewheel SideRideTM for these people. You could easily make one twice as good as the existing originals, if you look at the much better EUC specs and components.

There is a DIY mten3 Onewheel attachment/build on YouTube.

Also, Gotway posted a video of a EUC looking like a Onewheel (tire rotated 90°) which may indicate they are building one.

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12 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Completely agree with you. It's a big mystery why no manufacturer wants to make bank with a Onewheel clone. They have the technology and are far ahead of actual Onewheels or any possible competition. Free money!

We are seeing a few wannabes, but they're all worse than the actual OG Onewheel, unfortunately.

GeoBlade

48393421_299007904073312_811018917169332

 

48V Generic Chinese Onewheel off AliExpress

36V Generic Chinese Onewheel off AliExpress 1

36V Generic Chinese Onewheel off AliExpress 2

 

I'm with @Luiz too.

I refuse to buy the Onewheel until they launch a proper spec (800W nom or higher motor, 25mph or higher max speed). If Gotway makes a clone, I'm there!

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Posted (edited)

You mean minimal EUC-style pedals in the front and back instead of on the side? Instead of a board? That might be a relatively easy DIY project, get an mten3 or MCM5 and build an attachment.

Maybe someone could build a EUC that allows rotating the tire 90°. 2 in 1. The Gotway thing literally looked like a Onewheel with rotated tire. Makes no sense as EUC because you can barely turn.

Alternatively, just elevate the board. Just like EUC pedals are still too low, the Onewheel board is too low. It should be above the tire, not symmetrically around it. Then the big board gives you better stance and more control leverage, and won't get in a losing argument with the ground so often.

8 hours ago, Luiz said:

Still alive and looking for new ways to kill myself . Eucs are just taking too long .:facepalm:

:efee612b4b:

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Just like EUC pedals are still too low, the Onewheel board is too low. It should be above the tire, not symmetrically around it. Then the big board gives you better stance and more control leverage, and won't get in a losing argument with the ground so often.

:efee612b4b:

OW did something right because it's easy to mount. However, getting off I felt was frightening because the process is essentially a controlled faceplant. You are supposed to lift one foot off the rubber sensor and eventually step off, but my finely honed faceplant sensor had me involuntarily leaping off the moment that nose started dipping. I'd assume all you riders would do the same.

The board does feels ludicrously low, and is the reason that 100% of videos of the OW are skating downhill. My gut feeling is doubling the size of the OW in everyway would do a lot to solve the OW's limitations. Just make the board huge and we're golden.

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2 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

My gut feeling is doubling the size of the OW in everyway would do a lot to solve the OW's limitations. Just make the board huge and we're golden.

Thought that too on occasion. Maybe it should be snowboard or even surfboard-sized.

But actually, the highest physically/geometrically incline grade is key. So small board + elevated as high as possible, just as @Luiz wants. Not sure how that would work for the riding behavior, though.

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Good find!

Up to 20kph:facepalm: 500W motor. 7.8Ah is ~460Wh at 60V (58.8V) or ~330Wh at 42V. It's like they don't want any customers.

Too bad, it's a nicely designed clone, and a German company apparently.

The price is a bit decent. 1000€. Still much more than a comparable EUC, but in line with Onewheel prices. Actually a well-placed price point for a slightly lesser Onewheel.

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Posted (edited)

The moonwalk is a remoteless esk8 but not very succesfull by the looks of it phatmike . It shows though that gotway has an eye on the crowded esk8 market  . I reckon they would do much better with a self balanced sk8 considering the relative new market  with less serious competition and their expertise on eucs .

I watched the video of the mten OW conversion Meep . A bit rough , but it shows it can be done . I reckon this concept could be chiseled by gotway into a  cool new device  . More clearence from the floor needed  and figuring out mout and dismount will be the chalenge .

 

Edited by Luiz

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Posted (edited)

I am not sure about making the OW even bigger LanghamP . The thing is already so bulky and heavy . This ,  plus the relative  limited range are the main disadvantages of it in conparison to eucs , but the carving , float , surf feel of it is awessome and that is why lots of people are paying serios buck for it despite its clear limitations at this early stage . OW can charge whatever they want for the device and parts and even slow down the release of upgrades to maximise their profits only because there is no serious competition .

Seem to be a good time for gotway . nineboat or even kingsong , inmotion  to jump on the band wagon if the do not want to miss the train .

Edited by Luiz
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On CES , OW over charged the hype (iphone like) anoucing big things caming and everybody was stoked for an upgrade .Turns out it was just a $225 , 35% faster hyper charger for the XR and a stand . LOL 😅 this guys on OW are such trolls .The reactions on the facebook OW owners group were hilarious .

 

Edited by Luiz
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4 hours ago, Luiz said:

$225 , 35% faster hyper charger

:eff04a58a6:

They need competition badly.

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@phatmike the Moonwalk is totally different (and I'm pretty sure now dead)

It had small 1950's style protruding mechanical nipple buttons your feet had to aim for and press, complete lack of understanding on boarding dynamics. The daily NYC eboard here all hate remoteless 4-wheeed eboards because pressing foot sensors screws with the natural foot placement of regular boarding; they much rather use a remote.

Plus, the Moonwalk was obscenely heavy and unwieldy to carry.

 

On 1/8/2019 at 6:02 PM, Luiz said:

Seem to be a good time for gotway . nineboat or even kingsong , inmotion  to jump on the band wagon if the do not want to miss the train .

Compared to the scooter share money that's being tossed around right now, the market for a OW competitor is peanuts. 

Doubtful they will divert already strained resources away from the scooter cash windfall to attempt this, unfortunately 😐

Edited by houseofjob
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The market for OWs is smaller than scoters inded houseofjob but the same is true for eucs and there is loads of competition also .

The OW growth is very impressive and it is basicaly the same device as euc with kart tire and adaptations for the side riding stance .

Edited by Luiz
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44 minutes ago, Luiz said:

The market for OWs is smaller than scoters inded houseofjob but the same is true for eucs and there is loads of competition also .

The OW growth is very impressive and it is basicaly the same device as euc with kart tire and adaptations for the side riding stance .

Good point.

Along that thinking though, I think if EUC's were a more recent development, all these companies would still chase the money: scooters.

 

But also, board culture is very limited to the Western world, predominantly the US.

And this matters because you're talking about Chinese companies. Boarding was virtually non-existent in Asia a few years ago, so boards don't permeate the culture like they do in the US, etc., relating to demand. And if you look towards Europe, I don't see skate/long boarding coming anywhere near close to bicycle or scooter (both manual and electric) adoption.

 

Again, as I've emphasized before, these are mom & pop companies we are talking about, not gigantic Apple or Google or Samsung or similar companies with infinite money and resources.

 

I would totally welcome one of the EUC mom & pop co's delving into OW competitor models, but given all the above, really doubt it (most can barely properly roll out their once-a-year, main new EUC models on-time without issue)

Hope to be proven wrong!

Edited by houseofjob
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22 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Again, as I've emphasized before, these are mom & pop companies we are talking about, not gigantic Apple or Google or Samsung or similar companies with infinite money and resources.

Good points, great discussion. But to be fair, Ninebot and Inmotion are hardly 'mom & pop.' They're backed by some of the biggest money in China, and I am thankful that EUC represent at least a modest slice of their business. Also to be fair, we're not sure how long either of them might continue down this EUC path with scooters looming so heavily. 

Regarding Onewheel, there's quite a bit of tech (and patented IP) wrapped up in that form factor. They are not as simple as our beloved EUC's, one thing I love about our devices is their simplicity of form and design. I see OW-type devices as inherently limited, and I'd be surprised if they ever have the range, speed, and overall capability that our EUC's have now, let alone in the future.

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56 minutes ago, who_the said:

Good points, great discussion. But to be fair, Ninebot and Inmotion are hardly 'mom & pop.' They're backed by some of the biggest money in China, and I am thankful that EUC represent at least a modest slice of their business. Also to be fair, we're not sure how long either of them might continue down this EUC path with scooters looming so heavily. 

Only Ninebot/Segway is in that class, with XiaoMi backing (billions). 

InMotion is not anywhere in that league, with angel-seed funding only in the double-digit (?) millions. And it seems they're due to recoup soon, as evidenced by their recent push to sell more volume. 

 

In the case of Ninebot/Segway, they definitely are chasing scooter money (the Z last year had zero promo comparatively), and you can see by how they word their marketing and flop back-and-forth Ninebot vs Segway branding, that there are warring factions for each product segment, typical of multi-company, multi-culture team mergers.

 

Since IM is much smaller, EUC is inevitably a more significant part of their smaller business, but pretty sure their scooter volume is either similar, or bigger.

In the case of Ninebot, no way their EUC equals their scooter (scooter share & bigger customer base) or Segway (company contracts) volume/revenue. It took 2+ years to finally launch a proper new EUC (ie. hemhorraging money), and the older product has been devaluated so much from the older ~1K USD price point, which means they are probably barely breaking even with the older wheels (namely A1/S1/S2), and probably just trying to unload product stock/liability at this point (this is why you've seen dirt cheap discounts every now-and-then on the A1/S1/S2; NB1 16" is now EOL).

 

IMHO, there's a lack of understanding here on how much money, resources and risk that are involved with launching a product from scratch.

 

Edited by houseofjob
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58 minutes ago, who_the said:

Regarding Onewheel, there's quite a bit of tech (and patented IP) wrapped up in that form factor. They are not as simple as our beloved EUC's, 

I used to think this, due to the lack of copycats, but dunno any more, the construct doesn't seem much more complicated than an EUC IMHO.

 

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3 hours ago, who_the said:

Regarding Onewheel, there's quite a bit of tech (and patented IP) wrapped up in that form factor. They are not as simple as our beloved EUC's, one thing I love about our devices is their simplicity of form and design.

Technologically, they are exactly the same. Onewheels have the extra foot triggers because they don't fall over on their own and therefore need an extra mechanism to see if the rider is there or not when they start or stop balancing. That's all. Compare it to a motor disengage button for a EUC.

Also, all EUC manufacturers have better technology than Onewheel, which is proven by the amazing mechanism of warning beeps that every wheel has had for ever, but the Onewheel does not have for some reason (which just shows, it's not just the Chinese that can make inexplicable fundamental omissions;)) . They could easily build a twice as good Onewheel clone.

As for battery, whatever is in the Onewheel with its 12 mile (or whatever range), you could easily pack in 1000Wh for over 2x the range. Motor power probably isn't up to modern EUC standards, too. Top speed 16mph. Not even tried to do any waterpoofing. Etc. They're behind the curve badly compared to current EUC standards. EUCs were where they are 3 or 4 years ago.

The form factor may have some fundamental limits, but in the end, if people want a self-balancing board, that's just how one looks. I think a really decent Onewheel clone with a 1500W-2000W equivalent motor and 1000Wh or 1500Wh range and 25mph top speed would easily be doable and blow the OW out of the water.

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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Technologically, they are exactly the same.

Have you ridden one?

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4 hours ago, houseofjob said:

I used to think this, due to the lack of copycats, but dunno any more, the construct doesn't seem much more complicated than an EUC IMHO.

There are a few more layers of — in my mind, undesired — complexity with a Onewheel, including the platform sensors, and the way the motor engages. To me, especially on initial tip-in, the Onewheel seems much more on/off with its power, rather than the linear, analog feeling I appreciate so much with our EUC.

The founders of Onewheel hold 30+ (U.S.) patents on various intellectual property in connection with their product. I wasn't trying to express a preference or an opinion — which for me is firmly with EUCs for obvious reasons.

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On 1/8/2019 at 2:04 PM, Luiz said:

I watched the video of the mten OW conversion Meep . A bit rough , but it shows it can be done . I reckon this concept could be chiseled by gotway into a  cool new device  . More clearence from the floor needed  and figuring out mout and dismount will be the chalenge .

Maybe Gotway can create an attachment that converts certain wheels to a sideways riding stance, kind of like what Ninebot did with their Gokart attachment to the Mini Pro.

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2 minutes ago, who_the said:

Have you ridden one?

I've ridden them several times and while they have the same behavior (I think exactly the same behavior) they have different feel from our EUCs, specifically they feel squishy.

I do believe they are easier to ride than our EUCs are, as none of the four OW riders could ride my EUC. I believe that is the reason for the tremendous successfully of the OW; most people can mount and wobble off, with the wide wheel encouraging confidence and, hence, speed.

I can see the Ninebot Z10 with its huge and stable wheel being a "sorta" OneWheel.

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