Dave Veneri Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Trying to avoid the need to upgrade after I buy scenario. Will I get that going with he 14s or can it be an all round wheel? I was going to go 16 inches as a happy medium but I like the power to weight of the 14s and its torque.....I’m 5-5 155 pounds and this wouldn’t be a commuter wheel, just joy riding mostly less than 10 miles and roughly 15mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave Veneri said: Trying to avoid the need to upgrade after I buy scenario. Will I get that going with he 14s or can it be an all round wheel? Depends on your needs, preferences and how your "driving behaviour" will change once you started and got addicted.😁 Edit: from what i read here the mcm5 should be the much better 14 incher - could increase the chances to get the one wheel you stay with?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Veneri Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 I get it but the 1-2 hour potential tire changes scare me a little. plus I’m reading that anything close to 20mph on a 14 inch is a bit hairy as opposed to a bigger diam. Wheel. guess there are trade offs. The heavier weight is within 1 pound of the ks16 as well. Hmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 31 minutes ago, Chriull said: Depends on your needs, preferences and how your "driving behaviour" will change once you started and got addicted.😁 Edit: from what i read here the mcm5 should be the much better 14 incher - could increase the chances to get the one wheel you stay with?! Given your described use, I'd say either of these wheels would be just fine. I'd probably go for the MCM5 myself, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Veneri Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 The battery is about the same size as the ks14s will the beefed up motor of the MCM5 tax that battery more leading to an increased chance of overpower? lastly, are the smaller wheels easier or harder to learn on vs a 16/18. Thanks for the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 11 hours ago, Dave Veneri said: I get it but the 1-2 hour potential tire changes scare me a little. plus I’m reading that anything close to 20mph on a 14 inch is a bit hairy as opposed to a bigger diam. Wheel. guess there are trade offs. The heavier weight is within 1 pound of the ks16 as well. Hmmmmmmmm Yes and no. It's when you encounter an unexpected obstacle that things get exciting at those speeds. You can ride a powerful 14" at a speeds like that until the battery gets low, but hit a bump, and "HELLO" ground. Of course it could happen on a 16" too, just slightly more stable. If you're just cruising for fun, you can back off from 20mph a bit and relax a little. After all you're not trying to get anywhere on time. 11 hours ago, Dave Veneri said: The battery is about the same size as the ks14s will the beefed up motor of the MCM5 tax that battery more leading to an increased chance of overpower? NO. Two vehicles going the same speed along the same path, doing the same amount of work will consume the same amount of power (all thing being equal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 It all depends on what you see yourself doing with the wheel, and how realistic that ist. Personally, I think it'll be too slow in the end. I was also saying "surely I will never be going more than 25kph (=15mph)" before I got one, but 25 is painfully slow 2 weeks after you start, when you find out every regular person on a bike is actually going 30kph (= 18mph), and at least for me any general usage wheel with a sustained top speed below 35kph would be completely uninteresting (and tbh I'd expect 50kph (31mph) as normal even if I'll never get close to that). But that pertains to 16+ inch wheels, also I was always going for long rides ever since before I got my wheel, you went for 14 and shorter tours right away. Maybe it will be different for you. You can work with everything, but I believe the only 14 incher that might not want to make you upgrade is the MCM5. Not necessarily because of the higher speed, you don't go that fast with smaller tire/less stable 14 inchers anyways, but more because it's powerful and won't make you wonder what's our there that is better. The 14S is kind of in a bad spot, quite expensive already, and "better" wheels are getting close price-wise. The MCM5 has unprecedented oomphh/torque which makes it more unique with no obvious upgrade. The motor power ratings are just rough proxies for how much oomp a wheel will have, how powerful it feels. There's no difference in power usage between motors/wheels doing the same things, and the non-small (> ~600Wh) batteries are stronger than what any motor can sustain indefinitely anyways. There's zero negatives to a stronger motor. Just more fun and enjoyment Bigger (taller) wheels are actually easier to learn because your legs have better, higher leverage. Something like an msuper or V10 is probably the easiest. But you can learn on anything. Don't let that concern you. Don't worry about tire changes. Yes, it's a bitch, but you do it every 3000km/2000 miles or so when your tire profile has worn down, or if you have a flat which ist very rare, just like on bicycles, if you pump up your tire properly. And you can slime it, too. It's a less than once in a year thing that you'll have to do something with the tire. For reference, I never had a flat in over 5000km with the standard type tire. Never even bothered with slime. Don't let yourself be stopped from getting any wheel due to this non-concern. As you seem to be going for a my-only-wheel choice, my recommendation would be to think about how much you want to/can spend on a wheel, and think without preconceived notions what wheel would be the best for you. Maybe a 16 incher (the generally accepted allrounder size) is better for you? Maybe indeed a 14 incher? And then get the best wheel you can (best as in subjectively the best for you). Take your time and do all the research you want. The definite best tip is to trust your intuition. If you kind of want a 14S or feel it is the right one for you (or any other wheel), that's the right thing to do. Looks, ergonomics, everything - your (first) intuition got it. Trust it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Veneri Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Yeah maybe a 16 then..........is the V10f better? Is it reliable with overheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 In my opinion, changed from experience and accidents, you should buy a rounded 18 inch wheel with fenders. Not a 14 incher. Not an 16 incher. It is the compact 18 inchers that are the true multipurpose all-rounders, and not the 16 inchers, because the 18 inchers can do everything the 16 inchers can do, but the 16 inchers cannot do everything the 18 inchers can do. As for the form factor, the round shape is the most compact, with the fewest edges to get caught on things, and the almost complete wheel coverage allows you to ride through damp areas without getting dirty. 14 inchers basically suck for actually doing anything practical and I say this from the viewpoint of a rider with three 14 inchers and who loves them dearly. 14 inchers are trick wheels, or can be used as true "last half mile" solution, but are entirely too difficult and unstable for anything else. Even then, you're better off simply lugging an 18 incher onto the bus/tram and dealing with the extra 20 pounds for 4 seconds over the 14 incher. Buy an 18 incher, then buy your 14 incher. Skip the 16 incher entirely, they have all the drawbacks of the 14 and 18 inchers without the benefits; unstable, short-ranged, nearly as expensive, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I don't think with your weight overheating will be a problem. It only happens on mountains/hills even for higher weights. V10 has a nicer speed/general usability. So I'd say it is better. But you have to know. Does it look right to you? There's little wrong or right choices here, more what you want and need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, LanghamP said: In my opinion, changed from experience and accidents, you should buy a rounded 18 inch wheel with fenders. Not a 14 incher. Not an 16 incher. It is the compact 18 inchers that are the true multipurpose all-rounders, and not the 16 inchers, because the 18 inchers can do everything the 16 inchers can do, but the 16 inchers cannot do everything the 18 inchers can do. As for the form factor, the round shape is the most compact, with the fewest edges to get caught on things, and the almost complete wheel coverage allows you to ride through damp areas without getting dirty. 14 inchers basically suck for actually doing anything practical and I say this from the viewpoint of a rider with three 14 inchers and who loves them dearly. 14 inchers are trick wheels, or can be used as true "last half mile" solution, but are entirely too difficult and unstable for anything else. Even then, you're better off simply lugging an 18 incher onto the bus/tram and dealing with the extra 20 pounds for 4 seconds over the 14 incher. Buy an 18 incher, then buy your 14 incher. Skip the 16 incher entirely, they have all the drawbacks of the 14 and 18 inchers without the benefits; unstable, short-ranged, nearly as expensive, etc... If you buy a 18-inch, I strongly recommend the KS18XL for your situation. It's a fantastic general purpose wheel and almost feels like you're riding a 16-inch wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Veneri Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Ok, now I’m up to the KS18 xl,,,,,,,lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 18 inchers are $$$ indeed. But it's good you're considering all wheels, whether you end up with a V5F or an 18XL. I wouldn't dismiss 16 inchers, they do have more torque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Anecdotally, the best 16 incher on the market...the Gotway Tesla...seems to be involved in the most gruesome accidents lately. And I think the Gotway acm 16 was responsible in @Rehab1 little get-off. While some argue that's par for the course, I argue that 16 inches is much too small to dampen speed wobbles from slight bumps for the 20 mph plus crowd. Really bad things start to happen around the 22 mph mark, and 18 inchers are many many times safer at those and higher speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Dave Veneri said: Trying to avoid the need to upgrade after I buy scenario. Will I get that going with he 14s or can it be an all round wheel? I was going to go 16 inches as a happy medium but I like the power to weight of the 14s and its torque.....I’m 5-5 155 pounds and this wouldn’t be a commuter wheel, just joy riding mostly less than 10 miles and roughly 15mph. People upgrade wheels because learning to ride the wheels transforms outlook and behavior. They start out thinking that they will use a wheel a certain way. Then they learn to ride. Then they get good at riding. Then they get even better than that. While they are improving, they are becoming wiser. They start to discover all the ways that they want to use a wheel, but cannot because of its limitations. The mountain that was on the first day of riding has effectively Become a molehill. Now they want a new mountain to climb. What once offered freedom now enshackles. Time to buy an 18XL.👍 The acquisition cost is higher with 18" wheels, but so is the value IMHO. How do you upgrade from an 18" wheel? I learned on an 18" wheel. I rode that same wheel like a maniac for over two years before purchasing my next wheel; an 18L. If I had purchased a 14" I might have bought at least one additional upgraded wheel before getting to that 18L; three purchases in total. I still own that original wheel. Its still going strong, and is still very much in use. My son uses it now to tool around on his university campus. I am one of those who suspects that 18" wheels, in the US market at least are inevitable. Most US buyers will end up with them because they simply are best at handling our uniquely hazardous road conditions. The combination of power and comfort make 18" wheels the most capable and safest wheels on the market. So why not start at the top 😉👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Dave Veneri said: I was going to go 16 inches as a happy medium but I like the power to weight of the 14s and its torque.....I’m 5-5 155 pounds Based on your description, it has to be the MCM5, for immediate torque. You will reach 20mph within a distance of 15 metres. An XL will need double that, it doesn't have the torque from very low down. An 18XL will be heavy for you to manage on a daily basis, it weighs 53lbs, a 3rd of your body weight. Alot of skill and concentration is needed for the 14inch wheel though, do you have it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Forget 18". You need a 22" monster, the 22" can do everything the 18" can do but the 18" can't do anything the 22" can do. Plus, who needs to carry it? just flatten things that get in your way, steps, curbs, etc all get flattened by the might of a 22 incher. (removes tongue from cheek ) 14 inchers suck, but what do I know? I only learned on one and rode it over 1000 miles on all types of terrain including the beach and mountains. For me personally the drawbacks of 14" were specific to my wheel: small battery(340Wh), violent tilt back at top speed (19mph), Form factor ( sharp protrusions at ankle height forced me to wear sponges in my socks on EVERY ride), cracked axle. Non of these issues exist in any of the wheels recommended so far. Think carefully before you take advice, and do a little research about where the advice is coming from. 18" are big and heavy which can cause problems. I remember a certain contributor to this forum in an almost life and death situation a while back, partly caused by the unmanageable weight of his large diameter wheel. A bit like Gilligan's island without the humor and voluptuous co stars, and coconuts. Having said all that, @Lutalo hit the nail on the head. You may get the perfect 14, 16, 18 inch wheel and you will STILL want to upgrade. The temptation of new, shiny pretty things is hard for most of us to resist. The reason most of us are not wheel hoarders like @Marty Backe and @houseofjob is that we have more pressing uses for our limited funds. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Best thing to do, is if you can, try and attend a local group ride, and if possible, test out the wheels that are present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, ED209 said: Best thing to do, is if you can, try and attend a local group ride, and if possible, test out the wheels that are present. How can a newbee test out wheels? He can't ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Maybe they can teach him? Advise him? it's an opportunity to visually see the wheels in person. It's cheaper than buying the wrong wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 hour ago, ED209 said: Maybe they can teach him? Advise him? it's an opportunity to visually see the wheels in person. It's cheaper than buying the wrong wheel. That sounds reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I just looked at the U.S. prices (ewheels), and a MCM5 is only $75 more than a KS14S 840Wh (always get the biggets battery you can afford unless you go for wheel weight as primary concern). No sense in buying a 14S unless you just want one (looks, form factor, whatever) then it's totally fine. MCM5 runs circles around it (and the 14S isn't exactly bad!). So MCM5 is a fantastic 14'' option. Maybe it will fit best the riding style you see yourself doing. Maybe you can complement it with a big fat 18 incher later? The prices for the 16 inch options aren't bad either: 16S $1350, Tesla $1450, V10 $1300 - all under $1500. They're all very good, proven wheels. 18 inchers are expensive in comparison, none under $2000 (I don't think a non-1600Wh 18L is worth the $1800 in comparison to 14/16 inchers or 1600Wh 18 inchers). And you have to think whether one fits your riding ideas. Do what feels right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Smoother said: Forget 18". You need a 22" monster, the 22" can do everything the 18" can do but the 18" can't do anything the 22" can do. I hear you on this dude, but the 22" have limited portability for my preferred uses. Thats why I think the versatility of 18" wheels make the best all around wheels. You won't catch me lugging a 100lb on the subway, or apt bldg stairs in DC. No sir. No way. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 You need to find a compromise. Of course bigger wheels forgive much more, but they are the most expensive and most heavy. For 10 miles range and 15 miles top speed ks18xl or msx is overkill. So the most neutral choice is 16 incher: Tesla or KS16s are most popular and probably best choice for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Rafal said: For 10 miles range and 15 miles top speed ks18xl or msx is overkill. So the most neutral choice is 16 incher: Tesla or KS16s are most popular and probably best choice for you. On DC roads/streets the 18L has proven for me to be a quite neutral choice. 16" are doable, but not ideal too twitchy, uncomfortable, and vulnerable to bumps and potholes. A 14" wheel in Washington for everyday commuting is unthinkable; laughable even. The 18" is heavier, but manageable because even if you must lift, it will usually be brief; I have never had to lift and carry my 18" wheel unless in an apt building with a broken elevator. My son has to do it more frequently when on campus; lots of historic buildings holding classes. If commuting in my city you will spend far more time riding and trolleying; rarely lifting for any reason. Nevertheless, wheels larger than 18" get no serious consideration from me either; 18" is the sweet spot. One day, after I buy a vineyard in the Shenandoah mountains I might spring for a Monster to chase the Black Bears away from my grapes. In DC and probably most cities with public transportation, the bus platforms meet you at ground level these days; no need to lift wheel to board a Metrobus. Thus, for me, ride comfort and experience when commuting takes priority in my consideration over how light a wheel might be to carry and 16" wheels get no consideration from me. I want the optimal combination/mix of versatility and capability. For me, that is an 18" wheel. The pros are greater than the cons. The increased comfort over a 16 is substantial, while the increased weight penalty is minimal with the my 18L Having said that, my 18XL is a slightly different story. Let me put it this way; it approaches the outer reaches of the "ideal mix" borderline due to its weight, but manages to stay on the right side of that border and doesn't cross it. I find the 18L to be slightly superior to the XL as a commuter wheel. Its lighter weight and more nimble handling characteristics makes it slightly less daunting to use when crowds get thick than the 18XL. Long story short: Recreational Group ride = 18XL every time Commute downtown to a meeting/to the office = 18L every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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