failing The Mullings of a Beginner

[Smoother]

2 minutes ago, Paul2579 said:

I started riding last week (18XL) and was able to stay on the wheel for as long as I wanted after about an hour, thanks in no small part to the tips on this forum.  But much like with a motorcycle, I feel like I could spend a lifetime exploring the dynamics of the wheel.  (Which is the fun part!) The "OMG what have I done" phase was mercifully short, but memorable enough to make me empathize with this thread.  The question I asked myself at that time was:  "Does anyone ever not learn how to do this, or is it like riding a bicycle, which 99% of the able-bodied people seem to be able to do?"  I realize this is a self-selecting group and therefore not representative of the population at large, but what is the collective wisdom here?  Do some folks try to pick this up and then have to walk away because they find it impossible?  From my lurking around here and elsewhere, I've never seen it suggested that someone who was motivated to learn might nonetheless not be able to.  (In which case, as I told myself at that time--there really is nothing to worry about )

From this forum, I remember two people who tried and quit.  One guy from Florida who had a two wheeler of some sort.  He posted frequently, was having trouble learning than disappeared.  But I think there was some tragedy in the family, so the details are fuzzy.  Then there was this guy in California.  Someone gave him two brand new King Songs (Without chargers or boxes )  he sold them here about 2 days later.  I'm not sure that being gifted a wheel and not learning strictly qualifies; because there was no motivation to buy and learn, as most of us do. Almost everyone I know would not learn if someone just gave them a wheel out of the blue.

[houseofjob]

17 minutes ago, Paul2579 said:

I started riding last week (18XL) and was able to stay on the wheel for as long as I wanted after about an hour, thanks in no small part to the tips on this forum.  But much like with a motorcycle, I feel like I could spend a lifetime exploring the dynamics of the wheel.  (Which is the fun part!) The "OMG what have I done" phase was mercifully short, but memorable enough to make me empathize with this thread.  The question I asked myself at that time was:  "Does anyone ever not learn how to do this, or is it like riding a bicycle, which 99% of the able-bodied people seem to be able to do?"  I realize this is a self-selecting group and therefore not representative of the population at large, but what is the collective wisdom here?  Do some folks try to pick this up and then have to walk away because they find it impossible?  From my lurking around here and elsewhere, I've never seen it suggested that someone who was motivated to learn might nonetheless not be able to.  (In which case, as I told myself at that time--there really is nothing to worry about )

LOL, one of my rider friends influenced many neighbors in his building to buy a wheel and try to learn, but unfortunately, many apparently have given up and now have a very over-priced memento sitting in their apartments (think they over-estimated the learning curve, which I myself did in the beginning). FWIW also, there were less resources for learning a year or two back.

[houseofjob]

12 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Then there was this guy in California.  Someone gave him two brand new King Songs (Without chargers or boxes )  he sold them here about 2 days later.  I'm not sure that being gifted a wheel and not learning strictly qualifies; because there was no motivation to buy and learn, as most of us do. Almost everyone I know would not learn if someone just gave them a wheel out of the blue.

I remember that one. Still pretty suspicious that he was "gifted" wheels "without chargers". In NYC, that's code for "the wheels were jacked/stolen".

[Smoother]

4 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

I remember that one. Still pretty suspicious that he was "gifted" wheels "without chargers". In NYC, that's code for "the wheels were jacked/stolen".

Yeah I went over that one in detail, but Jason said he thought he remembered the sale, so the whole issue went away. I was actually accused by someone of being a thief because I knew so much about what a dodgy sales listing looks like.  Bloody cheek.

[Smoother]

10 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

LOL, one of my rider friends influenced many neighbors in his building to buy a wheel and try to learn, but unfortunately, many apparently have given up and now have a very over-priced memento sitting in their apartments (think they over-estimated the learning curve, which I myself did in the beginning). FWIW also, there were less resources for learning a year or two back.

Yeah, but we still did it.  Sounds like all those "nearly new" wheels sitting around in that apartment building, represent a good purchase/re-sale opportunity for some enterprising person.

[houseofjob]

8 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Yeah I went over that one in detail, but Jason said he thought he remembered the sale, so the whole issue went away. I was actually accused by someone of being a thief because I knew so much about what a dodgy sales listing looks like.  Bloody cheek.

Oh yeah, vaguely remember the vouching too. Still sketchy to me though.

6 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Yeah, but we still did it.  Sounds like all those "nearly new" wheels sitting around in that apartment building, represent a good purchase/re-sale opportunity for some enterprising person.

Not so much, as they were all Ninebot One 16" purchases at least a couple of years back, and the value for those have plummeted. (I've heard some were given away, etc.)

[meepmeepmayer]

@Paul2579 Pretty sure anybody who really wants to learn can learn. Only exception I can think of might be some medical problems popping up, as in "I'd like to but it turns out my knee/back/... won't do this".

People who try but don't succeed just don't seem to have the actual motivation (too fearful, trying for someone else's sake, things like this).

Nice first wheel by the way! You're now in the phase where you think you're invincible but any unexpected obstacle and you might panic. Just a little warning. Mostly for your shins sake, because you might try to stop a runaway wheel with your foot - don't, it hurts

[Paul2579]

20 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Nice first wheel by the way!

Thanks!  Yet another learning from this forum.  I see that many folks get bit with the bug and end up with another wheel soon after their first.  I'm hoping to nip that in the bud.  Wish me luck.   

24 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You're now in the phase where you think you're invincible

Not quite--despite my early success I haven't pulled the luggage strap off the handle yet--maybe the single best piece of advice I came across here. 

 

27 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

but any unexpected obstacle and you might panic

I have no idea what you're talking about.  Something about some frozen lumpy grass, a tree, a frantic dismount and grab at the wheel, and robotic protestations to "please slow down!" come to mind, but I'm pretty sure it was just a night terror.    

[Smoother]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Not so much, as they were all Ninebot One 16" purchases at least a couple of years back, and the value for those have plummeted. (I've heard some were given away, etc.)

Ah! Set back.

[houseofjob]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

People who try but don't succeed just don't seem to have the actual motivation (too fearful, trying for someone else's sake, things like this).

Yes, this is a BIG factor IMHO. 

We are in an age right now where people are trained for instant gratification. This doesn't help the cause of EUCs,.... or maybe it does: the people who actually really want it will learn.

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Yes, this is a BIG factor IMHO. 

We are in an age right now where people are trained for instant gratification. This doesn't help the cause of EUCs,.... or maybe it does: the people who actually really want it will learn.

I've said before that an EUC is about a hard as a bicycle, and if you can ride a bicycle you already know how to ride an EUC.

Now I wonder if that is correct. Let's look at this video of adult learners on bicycles.

Learning a bike seems substantially easier than an EUC, and looking very closely there seems major differences that make it so.

1. The physical effort is much less, as you don't keep reaching down to pick the wheel up after each unsuccessful effort.

2. Similar to our triangle method but far easier, you can slowly padal with your feet on the ground until you get above the stall speed.

3. There is very little weight on the front wheel making turning into the fall effortless. In contrast the EUC rider must twist the wheel decisively as it is quite "grippy".

4. There's a lot of rake on those bicycles. We have none whatsoever. That means bicycles fall into the turn quite slowly while ours fall very quickly.

5. Double the wheels means at least twice the gyro force.

I think this all adds up to make learning EUCs hard to do so on your own. I do think both EUCs and bicycles are relatively easy to learn, something you need to do just once, but EUCs while being just a bit harder to learn than bicycles look much harder. They really aren't, of course, but they just appear to be so.

[RoadRunner]

18 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

adult learners on bicycles

Wow that’s so strange to see people who can’t ride a bike. I’ve  learned to ride a bike 38 years ago, so it feels just natural. Muscle memory is a great thing.

I wonder how we all ride in 15 years.

 

[Flying W]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

 

People who try but don't succeed just don't seem to have the actual motivation (too fearful, trying for someone else's sake, things like this).

My girlfriend would fall into the trying for someone else's sake. She would love to go on rides with me but as soon as any correction is needed she is off the wheel. 

We finally decided that it would actually be worse if she did learn because at some point she would encounter a surprise and eat it badly. Even falling off in grass with full pads left her bruised up pretty bad. 

She'd be way happier with a mini pro, or somewhat better yet a decent scooter. Noth those option would limit where we could go together but our ideas of fun differ too. I think she would be happy to cruise along a bike trail or the boardwalk at the beach. I'm delusional of I think just because she learned EUCs that she would want to go ride mnt bike trails......which reminds me, we need the hill climbing of the mcm5 with a 1600wh battery!

[Flying W]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

 

I wonder how we all ride in 15 years.

 

To the bingo hall, buffet and doc visits 

[houseofjob]

3 minutes ago, Flying W said:

......which reminds me, we need the hill climbing of the mcm5 with a 1600wh battery!

*cough* Nikola *cough*

[Flying W]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

 

I wonder how we all ride in 15 years.

 

To the bingo hall, buffet and doc visits 

[seage]

22 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

People who try but don't succeed just don't seem to have the actual motivation (too fearful, trying for someone else's sake, things like this).

This 300%. When i lifted the wheel out of the box i was like, oh wow...this is...really heavy.... Its totally different than on paper where you see the specs. Once that little beast is infront of you, the intimidation kicks in. Like, wow, this is a REAL vehicle. Then your first time standing on it and you feel that power you're like, uh oh... For me, gripping to the pedals for my life while being tilted forwards and backwards really killed my confidence in trusting the machine because i was scared an unexpected dip would just pour me into the ground like milk while the wheel used my back as a ramp to rejoin its friends in the sky.

But even with the glitches - once i faced my fear and didn't worry about it, i was able to ride and stay on for a good while. That fear alone was the deciding factor for if i could stay on the wheel or if i was gonna fall. 

[meepmeepmayer]

12 minutes ago, seage said:

This 300%. When i lifted the wheel out of the box i was like, oh wow...this is...really heavy.... Its totally different than on paper where you see the specs. Once that little beast is infront of you, the intimidation kicks in. Like, wow, this is a REAL vehicle.

Haha, I'm pretty sure every single rider had that first thought. I certainly did. "Oh **** what did I get myself into this is serious" after lifting the HEAVY thing out of the box and switching it on the first time, observing the balancing. Followed by stepping on on the wobbly thing and thinking "What... how in the world is anyone supposed to ride this?!".

[Smoother]

9 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Haha, I'm pretty sure every single rider had that first thought. I certainly did. "Oh **** what did I get myself into this is serious" after lifting the HEAVY thing out of the box and switching it on the first time, observing the balancing. Followed by stepping on on the wobbly thing and thinking "What... how in the world is anyone supposed to ride this?!".

Yep that's pretty much word for word.

It was only the prolific number of YouTube videos of ordinary people riding them that reassured me that I would master it too.  Unfortunately the same logic hasn't helped me learn guitar.  I think that's because learning to ride is fun where learning guitar is not.

[Marty Backe]

30 minutes ago, seage said:

This 300%. When i lifted the wheel out of the box i was like, oh wow...this is...really heavy.... Its totally different than on paper where you see the specs. Once that little beast is infront of you, the intimidation kicks in. Like, wow, this is a REAL vehicle. Then your first time standing on it and you feel that power you're like, uh oh... For me, gripping to the pedals for my life while being tilted forwards and backwards really killed my confidence in trusting the machine because i was scared an unexpected dip would just pour me into the ground like milk while the wheel used my back as a ramp to rejoin its friends in the sky.

But even with the glitches - once i faced my fear and didn't worry about it, i was able to ride and stay on for a good while. That fear alone was the deciding factor for if i could stay on the wheel or if i was gonna fall. 

300% on top of your 300%  I can still remember taking my first wheel (ACM) out of the box. It was like, "whoa, this is one serious machine". No toy here, and a bit intimidating. And like you say, confidence in the wheel is needed before you can really ride. Until then, leaning forward on the wheel is scary and unnerving.

[Flying W]

People at work are always shocked when they pick it up for the 1st time. Wheels have such a small footprint no one thinks they will be that heavy. 

Surprisingly only 2 people have wanted to try it. One rides a manual unicycle and had no issues taking off from a wall and the other takes the train and brings a bicycle.  I have a lot of co workers and all of them think the wheel looks fun but only 2 considered it and really only one is getting one (the guy who takes the train). 

I'm begining to think we may all have a genetic abnormality and that the "normal" people may never even try a wheel. So many times I've read the very same thing that happened to me. Saw a wheel for the first time, had to have a wheel!  

[Smoother]

On 1/20/2019 at 7:45 AM, Flying W said:

People at work are always shocked when they pick it up for the 1st time. Wheels have such a small footprint no one thinks they will be that heavy. 

Surprisingly only 2 people have wanted to try it. One rides a manual unicycle and had no issues taking off from a wall and the other takes the train and brings a bicycle.  I have a lot of co workers and all of them think the wheel looks fun but only 2 considered it and really only one is getting one (the guy who takes the train). 

I'm begining to think we may all have a genetic abnormality and that the "normal" people may never even try a wheel. So many times I've read the very same thing that happened to me. Saw a wheel for the first time, had to have a wheel!  

Amen to that.  If this is a genetic abnormality then turn up the radiation to make it grow (as @Marty Backe and @houseofjob apparently have already done. Marty says he's in aerospace, I think he changes the fuel rods at his local nuclear power station---by hand))  When it comes to normal people, I want to be as little like them as possible; grey soulless robots soaking in conformity and living it to the letter. But I bet most of us here feel that way about them.

[meepmeepmayer]

"Genetic"...

I think it may be the snaking/weaving/skiing movement that some people are instinctively taken with. That was it for me. Seeing a guy just stand on the thing and ride straight, I just thought "mmh, ok, this exists, apparently *eyeroll* *thingstheworldneeds*". But once the skiing started, I was struck

(Btw, what is the official name for that movement?)

Maybe it's the relaxing exercise of the upper body/spine that's attractive with the skiing? Maybe just former skiers like EUCs or obvious reasons? (After all, skateboards and the Onewheel are just snowboards on pavement, right? So EUCs are ski on pavement?) Would both work for me.

Not hard to assume a "physical" attraction to EUCing for certain people, then.

Other people just have other instinctive interests. No need to disparage them until you find out they have no appreciable interests but if they don't fire away😁

[Smoother]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

"Genetic"...

I think it may be the snaking/weaving/skiing movement that some people are instinctively taken with. That was it for me. Seeing a guy just stand on the thing and ride straight, I just thought "mmh, ok, this exists, apparently *eyeroll* *thingstheworldneeds*". But once the skiing started, I was struck

(Btw, what is the official name for that movement?)

Maybe it's the relaxing exercise of the upper body/spine that's attractive with the skiing? Maybe just former skiers like EUCs or obvious reasons? (After all, skateboards and the Onewheel are just snowboards on pavement, right? So EUCs are ski on pavement?) Would both work for me.

Not hard to assume a "physical" attraction to EUCing for certain people, then.

Other people just have other instinctive interests. No need to disparage them until you find out they have no appreciable interests but if they don't fire away😁

Weave, slalom, seem to be the most appropriate.  Yes I agree weaving is fun, just like sidewalk skiing.  Funny enough Jan and Dean (before the Beach Boys) wrote a song in the sixties called Sidewalk Surfin'.  It is about skateboarding  At the very end they repeat over and over  "skateboard with me why don't you skateboard with me".  Weaving also has a small benefit; it evens out the wear on your tyre so it doesn't get a flat spot (grove) in the middle, wearing the tyre out prematurely.  Turning on a tyre with a flat spot is weird, ask any sports bike rider.

 

[Flying W]

Since I only ride the motorcycle for fun it's been a long time since I had a big flat spot. 

Oddly, my 16s is cupping. It reminds me of front first gen dunlop sportmax. I think it is from breaking while in a slalom. You can hear the tire digging in. 

How long do these tires last for most people? I have about 830 miles on this one and I think I'll get about that many more, possibly hit 2k miles. I'm sure tire pressure plays a role too. I like 42 to 44 on the stock tire in the 16s. 

"When it comes to normal people, I want to be as little like them as possible; grey soulless robots soaking in conformity and living it to the letter. But I bet most of us here feel like that."

My job requires a fake porcelain demeanor.  Commuting gets me to work, and back home, in a much better mood!