failing The Mullings of a Beginner

[seage]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

EDIT. You need to forget your freak of a brother, and his amazing physical skills.  You are not that person, and 99% of us out here, are not either.  Most of us took days of constant work to figure this stuff out.  What I tell people who ask me if its hard to learn: " I took three days to be bad, and three weeks to be good"

Haha! Its family love. We compete hard, but you know, now that i've felt what it feels like to glide around, its kinda erased all that. It was such a good feeling to just completely relax and just flow, you know? Well of course you know... But for the first time! Blew my mind when my arms just relaxed and my body relaxed and i just started flying towards my destination! (Oh, the look ahead thing really helped!) But yeah. Im looking forward to working on being good XD. 

[seage]

44 minutes ago, Smoother said:

You're not wrong there.  A flatter tyre is sluggish and squishy, so it might help a learner, or it might hinder.  None of us can go back to being a learner to say one way or the other.  As an experienced rider, that squishy feeling is not wanted.  Maybe put it up to 45 as a compromise until you feel more in control.  There is always a danger that a squishy tyre might become a crutch that holds you back.  If your morning ride was better than this, then I don't think you need to rely on a squishy tyre.

Having said that, now I think of it, my learning tyre was at 65psi, and I had a devil of a time, so maybe you're onto something. I didn't try lowering the pressure for months (after advice from people on this thread). There is a compromise pressure, that's why I suggested 50psi for you as you look to be about 210-220lb.  I have a 16s weigh 185lb and ride at 45psi.

FYI A low tyre can lead to a flat.  "Snake eyes" they call it; where the inner tube gets pinched between the road and the rim.  Trust me, replacing a tube is no fun.

 Ah, okay. Yeah, i'll pump it to 45 and just get over it, lmao. Because yeah, you're right.... And the snake eyes thing...yikes... I've had that on my bike, but at least i didnt have to dismantle machinery to change that. I will take your advice and get some air back in that tire. Also great guess. Im 230. I was worried im too heavy. Im actually working on losing weight right now (not just for riding, but im tired of my "dad bod" when i dont even have any kids to use as an excuse. But yeah, i'll get that back up. I'll deal with the wobbles as they come! I'd like to try riding down a path soon (there is one kinda park thing in my city, and ive only seen people walking there maybe 3 times in the years ive lived here, so i can ride there safely without endangering any lives) 

[seage]

16 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You're doing great. Some advanced maneuvers there, the free mount and narrow curves! At these low speeds! What were you ever so worried about?

I'd still like to see some more twisting (or just the slow motion equivalent of twisting: doing turns by rotating your head/upper body instead of shifting weight between the legs). Less leg work, more full body smooth relaxedness. And the tire pressure is indeed to low

But you're damn good already!

Maybe this helps.

Thanks meep! I will work on my twisting on my next session! (Hopefully tomorrow, if weather permits) I did a bit more of it in the morning. I was able to turn my head and i followed it around that open area. Crazy feeling. I did feel i was doing a lot more shifting of weight with my legs later on when i was more fatigued. Hopefully with conditioning, i can do a mix of them all at will for whatever reasons since I was kinda losing control due to not being able to pull out of it. But i didnt panic this time and rode it out! The slower turns scared the heck out of me, but i wanted to trust the wheel and myself that i wouldnt fall/scrape the pedal. Normally id bail because on a bike, if you turn that hard or dip so steeply, you're going over the handlebars. But with this i was able to  just switch directions. It was almost like a wake up call to just how different this wheel behaves in comparison to what i know. Because I do find myself trying to apply cycling knowledge to the unicycle, and while theres some crossover, this really is its own thing. 

Thanks for that video!! I've got lots of materials to practice! Cant wait to continue getting comfortable on the wheel!

[RoadRunner]

And now all you have to do is go out and eat those miles, that’s what i did.

I went out to ride as much as i could, every day, and there where days when i thought shit i will never do that, and the next day click, click, click.

At about 400km i felt really comfortable, now iam at 820km and it fits like a glove, just like riding a bike.

So just go out and ride

Oh and i did a lot of off-road riding in the beginning helped also a lot for ballance training.

[Smoother]

2 hours ago, seage said:

(there is one kinda park thing in my city, and ive only seen people walking there maybe 3 times in the years ive lived here, so i can ride there safely without endangering any lives) 

Well, since you've said that, it will be as crowded as Times Square on New Year's Eve, when ever you go to use it.  Sods Law and all that.

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, seage said:

It was almost like a wake up call to just how different this wheel behaves in comparison to what i know. Because I do find myself trying to apply cycling knowledge to the unicycle, and while theres some crossover, this really is its own thing. 

Your initial thought is correct; all these gyroscopically-balanced vehicles behave very close to each other. Therefore what you know on a bicycle or motorcycle should translate well with EUCs, with the exception that motorcycle acceleration (but not braking!) is irrelevant.

Other than that notable exception, I have never seen EUC behave differently from their other close-cousins. However, to you EUCs might feel different because your flexible legs take the place of the rigid forks that you're used to moving with your handlebars. If you can imagine riding on the handlebar of your bicycle (or a penny-farthing bicycle) then that's almost exactly the same control feel as our EUCs.

This is the YikeBike, a vehicle extremely close to a seated EUC (but far safer!). I haven't ridden one, by the way, although I can imagine it'd feel bang-on to our EUCs.

However, your EUC has essentially a zero-turn radius as you've accidentally found out. You can, for example, be on top of a <short> wall, and make the 90 degree turns to the astonishment of your audience. Try that, skateboarders!

[houseofjob]

@seage

Yup, you've got everything now!, just need more reps to solidify everything, build muscle memory, etc.

I'd say do a ride session everyday (weather permitting), even if it's a few minutes just down your driveway to get the mail.

And music is good!, since, by your self-criticism, I think you overthink things too much. And if you get frustrated at any point, just call it quits for that day, and start again the following (earlier in the days might be nice, since your head is more clear(?)). 

Then, as things start to feel second nature, you can game-ify the whole thing and make small missions, whether it's recreational park runs, or trips to the convenience store, etc.

 

2 hours ago, seage said:

The slower turns scared the heck out of me, but i wanted to trust the wheel and myself that i wouldnt fall/scrape the pedal. Normally id bail because on a bike, if you turn that hard or dip so steeply, you're going over the handlebars. But with this i was able to  just switch directions. It was almost like a wake up call to just how different this wheel behaves in comparison to what i know. Because I do find myself trying to apply cycling knowledge to the unicycle, and while theres some crossover, this really is its own thing. 

The carving physics are similar, but since your feet/legs and balance are the controller, your body is already in an optimal position to take the turn, etc; plus the gyroscope is doing the extra job of keeping you level and upright. The multi-PEV eboarders here in NYC say that EUC is safer for falls compared to eboards, due to the gyro component.

[Major Bathos]

@seage I have to thank you for this post. I'm new too and have been quietly learning from you experience here. I really like your video showing your struggles and success. 

One counter intuitive thing that helped me was when I moved from a large, open area to a trail/path. The large open area gave me too much freedom to have to think of where I wanted to go. Sounds like it should be good but when I took my wobbly butt to a paved bike path I improved quickly. The path removes thought and directs you to go one way and have definite visual markers to limit where you will go. You have to keep straight(ish) less you hit the edge and have to start again. It helps you learn minor corrective actions and gives you a sense of accomplishment when you can see how far you've gone. 

Lastly being on the path took the "training wheels" away from me. I couldn't start and stop at a fixture I could hold on to. I had to improve at starting and stopping which is/was one of the largest parts of my anxiety. If you can do those then you lose some of the fear of falling, some... I think the biggest obstacle for learning these EUCs is the anxiety/fear. Concur those, you concur EUCs. 

Keep it up and keep posting videos! 

[Marty Backe]

16 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Your initial thought is correct; all these gyroscopically-balanced vehicles behave very close to each other. Therefore what you know on a bicycle or motorcycle should translate well with EUCs, with the exception that motorcycle acceleration (but not braking!) is irrelevant.

Other than that notable exception, I have never seen EUC behave differently from their other close-cousins. However, to you EUCs might feel different because your flexible legs take the place of the rigid forks that you're used to moving with your handlebars. If you can imagine riding on the handlebar of your bicycle (or a penny-farthing bicycle) then that's almost exactly the same control feel as our EUCs.

This is the YikeBike, a vehicle extremely close to a seated EUC (but far safer!). I haven't ridden one, by the way, although I can imagine it'd feel bang-on to our EUCs.

However, your EUC has essentially a zero-turn radius as you've accidentally found out. You can, for example, be on top of a <short> wall, and make the 90 degree turns to the astonishment of your audience. Try that, skateboarders!

That YikeBike is interesting, but whoa at $2500 for an 8-mile range  

[Smoother]

51 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

That YikeBike is interesting, but whoa at $2500 for an 8-mile range  

Yet another interesting idea destined for the scrap heaps of history

[meepmeepmayer]

These prices aren't funny. EUCs had fair prices before the hike (fair was about 1€ or 1$ per Wh, taxes included for €, excluded for $), and everything else was, as proven by this, overpriced (*cough* ebikes *cough*). Instead of bringing prices down to reasonable, attainable-for-everyone levels for all vehicles, now all the prices rise to insane levels, EUCs included.

10 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Yet another interesting dumb idea destined for the scrap heaps of history

Fixed

You can't tell me this form factor is anything but dumb

[seage]

Gonna respond to everyone in the next post after my update, haha.

So I pumped up the tire as advised by @Smoother and went back out there. It was like i went back a few days in progress. Falling left and right. It was hard but i refused to get upset or worried. Just told myself, i need to reacquaint myself with the pressure is all! Still got that dipping feeling. Like when i lightly accellerated on a downhill slope, my feet would dip low, and on any uphill id be on my heels. But immediately as i decided to hold onto the pole of a basketball net and spin around. It was pretty drastic, but i got used to it. I was bailing a lot. But trying to keep control. Making sure not to just give up and drop the wheel. It was ugly, but it worked! Eventually i found out my mantra. Which is weird, i know, but you guys know im an overthinker. I started saying outloud like a lunatic "JUST RIDE!!!" I stopped preparing and making sure my feet were perfect. I bounced a little on the wheel, making little micro adjustments to my feet before just going for it. I was like "Who caaare, just RIDE!" Bam, gone again, back and forth. That little hype up seemed to be enough for all my wobbles to disappear. Its funny because id launch into just riding, but then my body would kinda go limp and chill right out as i found my balance, haha. FINALLY. Even though I felt like i was going to literally die with how easily it was to topple over left and right. So i made a game, as suggested from @houseofjob and said, okay, if i can get to that fence and back 5 times, i'll go over to that long pathway and try to take it on! (The one from day 3) so I did it. And it was fun. So i rode up to the end of the pavement as the grass is all ice, and walked over to that damn path and stared down it for a second, stopped caring and hopped on my wheel. Yelled "Just ride!" like an idiot and took off. I rode alll the way to the hill before it became squirrel and i stepped off... STEPPED OFF. If you remember that video, i was army rolling off the damn thing. 

I took a short video of my last run before going home. I wasnt going to but I was in such a good mood, i felt like i could do it. BUT before this happened...THE DAMN HANDLE CAME CLEAN OFF! I cant even say it snapped, it just....came off smoothly in my hand. People told me the handle is the weak part but i didnt know it was THIS weak. Ive since take it off and inspected the damage and its.....its plastic...you're supposed to lift the wheel with the thinnest plastic ever. I know it locked into the body to give it a bit more strength but damn..... Ive had to lift it up and down stair, but ive never bumped it or been aggressive. I've always assumed trolley handles are weak points, BUT NOT THIS WEAK! Contacted my vendor and hope he can ship me out a new handle for the thing soon XD. Not mad or anything, just a bit surprised at the engineering on it. Everything else is so robust. The KS 16s is built like a little tank. Then they have the flimsiest connection ever for the handle, lol. Oh man. 

Anyways, heres todays final run! Felt confident to film this XD (Turn on the sound for my amazingly indepth commentary)

 

[Smoother]

Someone's probably mentioned it before but you need to find some place that doesn't stop after 40 yards OR learn to turn on that path so you can extend it indefinitely.  Sure you'll mess up the first 30 turns, but then one will work, then another, and before long there will be more good turns than bad. Figure out which way you turn naturally, then place yourself to the other side of the path from your preferred turn direction, before the turn, to maximize your chances of success.

[Major Bathos]

11 minutes ago, seage said:

THE DAMN HANDLE CAME CLEAN OFF!

So you went to pick up your wheel and all you got was this?: 

[Major Bathos]

4 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Figure out which way you turn naturally,

I should be in the EUC Nascar since I'm good with turning left and going straight. For some reasons going right is less smooth. 

[seage]

19 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

And now all you have to do is go out and eat those miles, that’s what i did.

I went out to ride as much as i could, every day, and there where days when i thought shit i will never do that, and the next day click, click, click.

At about 400km i felt really comfortable, now iam at 820km and it fits like a glove, just like riding a bike.

So just go out and ride

Oh and i did a lot of off-road riding in the beginning helped also a lot for ballance training.

Yeah, i had to relearn a little bit, but thats the next plan, just keep riding, haha. everyday if possible. (which it wont be until i get that handle fixed) But yeah, slow and steady wins this race, haha. 

17 hours ago, Smoother said:

Well, since you've said that, it will be as crowded as Times Square on New Year's Eve, when ever you go to use it.  Sods Law and all that.

Lmfao, you're probably right. Ive jinxed it for certain now!

17 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Your initial thought is correct; all these gyroscopically-balanced vehicles behave very close to each other. Therefore what you know on a bicycle or motorcycle should translate well with EUCs, with the exception that motorcycle acceleration (but not braking!) is irrelevant.

Other than that notable exception, I have never seen EUC behave differently from their other close-cousins. However, to you EUCs might feel different because your flexible legs take the place of the rigid forks that you're used to moving with your handlebars. If you can imagine riding on the handlebar of your bicycle (or a penny-farthing bicycle) then that's almost exactly the same control feel as our EUCs.

This is the YikeBike, a vehicle extremely close to a seated EUC (but far safer!). I haven't ridden one, by the way, although I can imagine it'd feel bang-on to our EUCs.

However, your EUC has essentially a zero-turn radius as you've accidentally found out. You can, for example, be on top of a <short> wall, and make the 90 degree turns to the astonishment of your audience. Try that, skateboarders!

I see. I still do feel a pretty decent sized difference in cycling and wheeling. Mainly the position of my feet and so on. Also, what is that contraption? The design is....interesting? But it looks like an actual death trap. 

[seage]

17 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Yup, you've got everything now!, just need more reps to solidify everything, build muscle memory, etc.

I'd say do a ride session everyday (weather permitting), even if it's a few minutes just down your driveway to get the mail.

And music is good!, since, by your self-criticism, I think you overthink things too much. And if you get frustrated at any point, just call it quits for that day, and start again the following (earlier in the days might be nice, since your head is more clear(?)). 

Then, as things start to feel second nature, you can game-ify the whole thing and make small missions, whether it's recreational park runs, or trips to the convenience store, etc.

It took me about an hour to get my balance back up after pumping up the wheel. But after i started yelling "just ride" and just trusting the wheel no matter what weird stuff it did, everything became easier. And a lot more fun. Had the tunes going today and used that to take away any doubts. I realized after feeling how the wheel reacted differently due to the higher air pressure, it freaked me out at first, but i just stopped caring so much. And just started having fun. I was treating riding it almost academic and i was like, no, relaaaaaaaax. It was all about clearing my mind and reacting before my mind had a chance to make me think x y z. And your idea to gamify was a great one! I did just that and again, it gave me an objective to focus on which in turn got me out of my head and shut down the overthinking at the source. 

 

2 hours ago, Major Bathos said:

@seage I have to thank you for this post. I'm new too and have been quietly learning from you experience here. I really like your video showing your struggles and success. 

One counter intuitive thing that helped me was when I moved from a large, open area to a trail/path. The large open area gave me too much freedom to have to think of where I wanted to go. Sounds like it should be good but when I took my wobbly butt to a paved bike path I improved quickly. The path removes thought and directs you to go one way and have definite visual markers to limit where you will go. You have to keep straight(ish) less you hit the edge and have to start again. It helps you learn minor corrective actions and gives you a sense of accomplishment when you can see how far you've gone. 

Lastly being on the path took the "training wheels" away from me. I couldn't start and stop at a fixture I could hold on to. I had to improve at starting and stopping which is/was one of the largest parts of my anxiety. If you can do those then you lose some of the fear of falling, some... I think the biggest obstacle for learning these EUCs is the anxiety/fear. Concur those, you concur EUCs. 

Keep it up and keep posting videos! 

Thanks a lot my friend! Actually, i completely agree. Although it was a short stretch and its just a straight run, riding down that pathway today really helped me out. I would have gone to something better but i was at the end of my practice for today and the handle had already broken, lol. Riding around the open area did give a bit too many options that were almost overwhelming. It also sometimes makes you feel like the wheels taking you for a ride whereever it wants to go, rather than you riding and controlling the wheel, haha. But i do like that. Most of the places around are not paved, and the ground has a lot of ice so i cant ride most of them yet. But yeah, it sounds like we were dealing with the same thing. Which you've overcome! The anxiety and fear. I think im slowly pushing through it, and it feels great XD

 

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

That YikeBike is interesting, but whoa at $2500 for an 8-mile range  

Im understanding the "Yikes" in the title, since that what you're saying when you look at that pricetag. Geez...

44 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

These prices aren't funny. EUCs had fair prices before the hike (fair was about 1€ or 1$ per Wh, taxes included for €, excluded for $), and everything else was, as proven by this, overpriced (*cough* ebikes *cough*). Instead of bringing prices down to reasonable, attainable-for-everyone levels for all vehicles, now all the prices rise to insane levels, EUCs included.

Fixed

You can't tell me this form factor is anything but dumb

Oh? Prices rose on them over the years? I guess it does help keep a bit of a wall between those who can get one and those who cant. 

And yeah...it looks pretty ridiculous, honestly. 

[seage]

22 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Someone's probably mentioned it before but you need to find some place that doesn't stop after 40 yards OR learn to turn on that path so you can extend it indefinitely.  Sure you'll mess up the first 30 turns, but then one will work, then another, and before long there will be more good turns than bad. Figure out which way you turn naturally, then place yourself to the other side of the path from your preferred turn direction, before the turn, to maximize your chances of success.

Ya, That path does turn a bit, but it turns on a downhill. And i actually rode down a bit of it there but i lost my balance as i was being tilted forwards. It may have just been my inexperience with hills and my quick shift of my bodys mass which made that happen. But it pushed me into a tighter turn and i was going towards the icegrass deathtrap so i leaned back and went for a stop instead. I cycled around my area and searched for a good path and everything is pure ice and and frozen gravel (Which is like mini knives). Theres a few more paths id like to check but most of them i wont even ride on my mountain bike in this weather. I am really happy i was able to make it down to the end of the straight path without losing control or wobbling like mad. I felt really in control for once!

 

25 minutes ago, Major Bathos said:

So you went to pick up your wheel and all you got was this?: 

Lmfao. Accurate. Thats pretty much a 1:1 on what happened. 

[Rywokast]

took me about ten mins to learn on it.. i learned on a ninebot one though which has a thinner wheel so swapping over to the kingsong and other wheels was cake.. but i found its best not to do it on pavement when learning... just go to a big grass field and dont be afraid of falling, the preemptive hopping off is what will get you, you need to just stay on and dont think about falling, because even if you do youre on grass it wont hurt especially at the probably slow speeds youll be going.. i never got any bruising or sore legs like people talk about but i have tiny legs and so they rarely even contact the unit lol. but just put on some padding and go for it, dont think too hard and dont stop until you get it.. once you get it it just flips a switch and suddenly it seems like its so easy. if you know someone else who rides get them to show you some techniques and help you out, i have seen people take weeks to learn on their own whereas two of my friends i taught they were able to do it confidently mounting without holding anything etc within 15 mins, i mean theyre not going in any competitions that simply takes many hours of practice but they can hop on, (almost) keep up with me, and get off most of the time somewhat gracefully

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

Someone's probably mentioned it before but you need to find some place that doesn't stop after 40 yards

This, very much. Get out of the kiddie pool, it just hinders you at this point. Go for real rides that challenge you. You won't believe how fast you learn then, you'll be much better at the end of one ride than at the start.

[Flying W]

When I got my dad into these contraptions I had this whole itinerary in my head of how I would teach him. I dont known why I thought at 68 he would be any different than his norm dive right in self. He didnt want to hear anything, just did what @Rywokast said and went to a grass field, never held anything to get on the wheel, and fell off a bunch. Got shin checked by the pedals, and added a lot of tuck n roll for good measure. He did this for about an hr and a half but kept slowly getting a little further and then "click". He made his first circle on purpose and drove off the field and into the parking lot and came all the way back. Still bleeding in many places (his skin tears easy and he doesnt stop bleeding very fast) but he had the smile of a fresh addict!  Now we ride all over the place. 

I'll never know if the way I wanted to teach him would have been any faster than watching him figure it out on his own. 

I was a little different, I had read up on how to ride these waiting for mine to show up in the mail. Got on it at a little league field holding the home run fence and planned on using the fence to help. Took off, machine leaned to the right and I drove into the out field.  Arm waving and hip twisting kept me on it and I made it back almost to the fence and walked off. Said to hell with the grass and took it to the side walk. Mounted using a light pole and took off. It felt like a mix between rollerblading and skiing. It had been 20 yrs since I had a pair of rollerblades on but the brain remembers. 

So far the only time I've hit the ground was about a month in. I call this the "I got this phase". Went to pass a jogger on a 2 track at a pretty good speed (wheel log showed about 18mph) but the middle of the 2 track was sand. The wheel turned what felt like 90 degrees and I kept going forwards landing on my airbag (belly) elbow pads and knee pads.

It's funny, I ride a lot better now but I go slower in the dirt than I did before the belly flop.  

[houseofjob]

32 minutes ago, Flying W said:

So far the only time I've hit the ground was about a month in. I call this the "I got this phase".

LOL, I remember this phase.

Most of my early falls were due to passing by people saying "cool", which tickled my show-off bone. There's nothing worse than ending up on the pavement, being asked by the same people if you're alright, when only your ego is the thing hurting the most 

[Major Bathos]

2 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

tickled my show-off bone

I said that to my girlfriend once... I'm no longer dating her. 

[Flying W]

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

LOL, I remember this phase.

Most of my early falls were due to passing by people saying "cool", which tickled my show-off bone. There's nothing worse than ending up on the pavement, being asked by the same people if you're alright, when only your ego is the thing hurting the most 

Prerequisite for a hillbilly ambulance ride, "check this out" or the popular "watch this".....apparently "on your left" also qualifies. 

3 hours ago, Major Bathos said:

I said that to my girlfriend once... I'm no longer dating her. 

 

[seage]

Alright, so update before we even begin, yall. My fears and concerns and complaints...WERE ACTUALLY JUSTIFIED! I've been riding a badly calibrated wheel since like day 2. Today i went to ride and the thing did a front roll without the motor cutting. I was like, what in the f?! Made a video, asked a few of you amazing souls on here. @houseofjob, aka, the most patient person ever told me to make a post on the kingsong forums, where @meepmeepmayer saved my damn life and told me that I've been calibrating my wheel all wrong. This whole time i figured I could just lean it up on whatever angle against a wall and calibrate it in a way that the pedals are straight, since it balances forwards and backwards, not side to side. Meep explained to me how the gyroscope works and so i went down there with a damn level. Re calibrated it, perfectly straight. The thing is like a new wheel..the pedals are sturdy. I can go up and down things and it doesnt tip. People were asking me why i always dismounted after 40 yards or so, and why i didnt just gun it on that hill. Well, its because the wheel would tilt me forwards on any hill, just dropping me into it. And when i was riding around any uneven ground i was being abruptly thrown back and forward on the pedals all the time. If i totally relaxed my body i could kinda anticipate it level myself out. But essentially, ive been riding a bucking bull of a wheel this entire time. I thought it was because i was trash at riding, but it was actually because i was trash at preparation and understanding how this thing worked. A super huge thank you to meep and houseofjob for helping me out when I honestly starting to feel like i was just making excuses for being uncomfortable and trying to justify my fear. You know, a placebo.

The wheel rides totally different now. Its much simpler XD. Im happy with that simplicity!