seage Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 7 hours ago, Chriull said: On rough grounds with low speeds, especially if one is not too experienced and cannot balance/handle the wheel very well one easily "overpowers" a wheel. There are huge currents needed and the wheel "decides" to protect itself so no wires/mosfets burn -> pedals tilt forward. Ah, so thats what happened. The inclines werent very extreme, but my speed was extremely low. I can understand why this would happen now. 7 hours ago, Chriull said: Tiltback is just an arbitrary "safety" limit choosen by the manufacturer. It safes one from some/many ways of overpowering the wheel, but one can safely "ride the tiltback" and on the other side overpower/overlean his wheel without having any tiltback or other warning... If you're interested in a bit more details of EUC power limits, i tried some summary here: Thank you for the thread! I researched the tilt back before i bought the EUC, I thought it was a very smart idea! I haven't felt it myself yet, and to be honest, the sound of it seems kinda scary when in action. Im not sure if id like to experience it, id rather just ride below it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seage Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Joker10 said: I encourage you to set the tiltback lower than the maximum speed and getting used to how it feels and how to react and ride it. You can set tiltback to 6 or 8kmh and get familiar with it at lower speeds then gradually increase it and get used to it at higher speeds. One thing you learn with experience is not to push the wheel too hard when it is near its limits. I am not at this stage yet in my learning (As im still wobbling and stepping off after going a few meters) but I will probably practice this once i get the hang of staying on, so that I can feel the tilt back, so it doesnt come as a surprise, once im ready. 4 hours ago, Joker10 said: If you slowly go beyond the wheels limits it will respond with a more gradual tiltback that is manageable. If you are passing the wheels limits while leaning forward and accelerating hard it will respond with more aggressive tiltback and you are more likely to be thrown off balance and have an unplanned dismount. I read about this, and saw videos of people pushing through and faceplanting. Which is why I knew what my brother did when he was thrown backwards. I wanted to know the safety features built in and thats when I heard all about tiltback and how it works. Id rather not experience what happens if I push that XD. 5 hours ago, Joker10 said: I set my final beep alarm for 33 kmh so I don’t accidentally hammer the wheel at 35kmh and receive severe tilt back. Your a new rider so here are some unsolicited pointers. Wear some protective gear wrist guards and a helmet at the least, scan your riding surface carefully and look for those depressions/ potholes / sidewalk problems, keep those knees slightly bent to allow for some suspension, and have a lot of fun. I had actually already planned not to go over 20km/h! Not for a year, at least. Im in no rush. So once I'm better, i'll set my tiltback even lower accordingly. I made sure to buy a helmet, triple eight kneepads and wristguards in advance and I haven't gone out without them! I even bought reflectors. I wear em when i go out, even though its just me walking the wheel with the trolly, haha. My riding area was definitely not the best though as it was all set up for water to not pool. So it dipped very drastically and there were drains. It wasn't like a park where its more flat with gradual runoffs. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Hey, no harm, no foul. It's good that we share our experiencers here for others to enjoy, experience, evaluate, and even, sometimes, critique. God knows my record is not unblemished in this regard. Keep doing what you are doing, and watch out for neighbours flower beds and garden lights. EDIT We all come here for various reasons, and just like any community a communal "standard" is either accepted or rammed down our throats. The biggest thing I think we can all agree on is "do as little as possible to damage the activity for everyone, by not acting selfishly or irresponsibly". I'm sure that if someone followed me around on my wheel they could probably point out a dozen things I could have done better. Edited January 6, 2019 by Smoother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 7 hours ago, ED209 said: @Smoother, I am just glad @seage is in Toronto and not England, he could easily ruin things for all of us. 😀 What do you mean "ruin things for all of us"? We're already outlaws here in Blighty. I might start riding with a red bandana over my face and start robbing banks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Smoother said: . I might start riding with a red bandana over my face and start robbing banks That's risky, We don't want you getting shot, you would be missed on this forum 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Smoother Posted January 6, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted January 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, ED209 said: That's risky, We don't want you getting shot, you would be missed on this forum 😊 Shot! You haven't seen me ride. Like a drunken sailor on the deck of a heaving ship. They'd never get their sights on me 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker10 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Seage, Enjoy the rides! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 ive had a ninebot one C+, airwheel X3, two kingsong 16S, gotway acm2 67 and 84 V versions, gotway tesla, gotway msuper v3s+, inmotion v5f, inmotion v8.. around 15k+ km of riding, never once had a random cutout... its a non issue.. if you have a cut out, which would be very rare to happen at all, 99.9% of the time it would be your fault, pushing the wheel way beyond its limits, ignoring safety precautions, riding it hard on a low battery etc etc, its mainly a play stupid games, win stupid prizes type thing hah.. some would consider it idiotic but i have no qualms about going down the road at 50 kmph at 2 AM with zero protection or whatever the top speed of the particular wheel im riding because i feel 100% confident in them, but i am not a beginner and you should take time to achieve that confidence.. i cant stress it enough, that you should absolutely not be going full speed on the unit until after you are 100% confident and experienced on it, its not if but when you will regret it lol. in fact you should only be riding in areas that there are no pedestrians and few cars when you are learning, any incidents could give bad press to EUC's and leave a sour taste in your mind. also do be mindful that its not a huge wheel, you are in the upper weight class for this size of wheel and of course with any weight increase so is the stress increased on the motor and battery.. youre not even close to the limit but if you were to ride it as hard as you saw somebody who was like 120 lbs ride it, bad things could happen.. overleaning, battery cutout (riding it hard with low battery) or hitting a pothole with low battery causing it to be unable to summon the power to rectify itself, over voltage from going down hill too fast on full, or low battery etc etc 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker10 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 15km. That’s great, I hope my wheel makes it that many and more. I will continue to wear protective gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I've put on at least 3000 uninspired miles on my KS16S; the few crashes I've had are from catching the pedals on the ground or a parking bump so be very aware of the low pedal height. You'll need to change the grip tape every 500 miles or so, don't wait, just change it when it starts to wear. It's a 2-5 minute job. LEDs go out. They bother me but not enough to replace since I'm unsure if it's the LED or the control board or whatever. Have a spare tire and innertube ready to go. If you get on the wheel and it suddenly seems unstable chances are you have a flat or low leak. I did use Slime with not very good results. I have had "semi-cut-outs" on my KS16S whereby I get a twig or something stuck in the rear fender. The fenders of the KS16S drop rather low and seem particularly prone to getting fouled, but then the low fender keeps you dry when the ground it wet. You must exercise great caution when reversing the wheel because the magnets or whatever seem spaced quite far apart. That is, if you do the reversal at the wrong spot it feels you drop off a cliff and there's a clunking sound along with pedal drop. Maybe it's just my wheel, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 9 hours ago, LanghamP said: I've put on at least 3000 uninspired miles on my KS16S; the few crashes I've had are from catching the pedals on the ground or a parking bump so be very aware of the low pedal height. You'll need to change the grip tape every 500 miles or so, don't wait, just change it when it starts to wear. It's a 2-5 minute job. LEDs go out. They bother me but not enough to replace since I'm unsure if it's the LED or the control board or whatever. Have a spare tire and innertube ready to go. If you get on the wheel and it suddenly seems unstable chances are you have a flat or low leak. I did use Slime with not very good results. I have had "semi-cut-outs" on my KS16S whereby I get a twig or something stuck in the rear fender. The fenders of the KS16S drop rather low and seem particularly prone to getting fouled, but then the low fender keeps you dry when the ground it wet. You must exercise great caution when reversing the wheel because the magnets or whatever seem spaced quite far apart. That is, if you do the reversal at the wrong spot it feels you drop off a cliff and there's a clunking sound along with pedal drop. Maybe it's just my wheel, though. this sounds like a problem with your particular wheel, never heard of that or had it on either of mine.. maybe it needs to be recalibrated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker10 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Never had a problem with a twig getting stuck. Had several leaves get in the wheel while off road riding. They normally just make a grinding noise and I go backwards for a second or two to displace them. LanhamP what ride setting are you using? In player mode mine does not have much play in it, if it’s in one of the other riding modes I get that weird lag in switching between reverse and forward. My ninebot one used to do this too on the softer settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leucistic Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Eated dirt again with ks-16s. Coming down hill to incline and tryed to keep momentum to up hill. First felt like stone jammed between case and tyre and made little dip. After that wheel stopped balancing and went to ground. Inspected that there was no pump on ground. Wheel was off when picked it up. Checked wheel log and saw, speed: 18km/h, battery: dipped 53% to 22% , power: 1700W, current: 31,5A. This was second time crashing when going up hill and peaking 1700W, but the first time wheel didn`t turn off. Am i going too hard at incline? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 12 hours ago, FunkyWheeling said: Eated dirt again with ks-16s. Coming down hill to incline and tryed to keep momentum to up hill. First felt like stone jammed between case and tyre and made little dip. After that wheel stopped balancing and went to ground. Inspected that there was no pump on ground. Wheel was off when picked it up. Checked wheel log and saw, speed: 18km/h, battery: dipped 53% to 22% , power: 1700W, current: 31,5A. This was second time crashing when going up hill and peaking 1700W, but the first time wheel didn`t turn off. Am i going too hard at incline? 22% is very low voltage - this 1700W/31,5A=54V or 3,4V per cell... So torque at speed is already very limited - seems very feasable that you were too hard at the inlcine. Coming down hill and trying to kepp the momentum to up hill is something EUCs don't like at all... If you share your wheellog log one could look further into that - could make you a graph like in https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/7855-anatomy-of-an-overlean/ so one could maybe see easily if it was an overlean or not. If the wheel was off after a fall is not telling too much. The wheel could spin up freely while tumbling/jumping/falling around and reach the no-load-lift speed were the firmware cuts the wheel off. So also one had just a "normal" overlean, the wheel can still be off after the incident. Just if the wheel is on after an incident it shows that it was no cut-off but an overlean. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leucistic Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Chriull said: 22% is very low voltage - this 1700W/31,5A=54V or 3,4V per cell... So torque at speed is already very limited - seems very feasable that you were too hard at the inlcine. Coming down hill and trying to kepp the momentum to up hill is something EUCs don't like at all... If you share your wheellog log one could look further into that - could make you a graph like in https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/7855-anatomy-of-an-overlean/ so one could maybe see easily if it was an overlean or not. If the wheel was off after a fall is not telling too much. The wheel could spin up freely while tumbling/jumping/falling around and reach the no-load-lift speed were the firmware cuts the wheel off. So also one had just a "normal" overlean, the wheel can still be off after the incident. Just if the wheel is on after an incident it shows that it was no cut-off but an overlean. Thank you for your reply. You are right. Wheel turned off after crash about 16 seconds when looking at log. Crash time 17:40:14.2019_08_26.xlsx Edited August 27, 2019 by FunkyWheeling applyed file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker10 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Since this has happened twice now, both times going up hill. Yes, you are attacking the hill harder than the wheel can handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leucistic Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Joker10 said: Since this has happened twice now, both times going up hill. Yes, you are attacking the hill harder than the wheel can handle. Well i would like to keep the speed so maybe a stronger wheel is what i need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, FunkyWheeling said: Well i would like to keep the speed so maybe a stronger wheel is what i need? A stronger will _can_ help, but also could make everything just worse, too. As with the stronger wheel one can drive faster, accelerate harder and by this get the exact same accident just at higher speeds... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 hours ago, FunkyWheeling said: Thank you for your reply. You are right. Wheel turned off after crash about 16 seconds when looking at log. Crash time 17:40:14.2019_08_26.xlsx Unfortionately you removed the fractions of the seconds in the xlsx file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leucistic Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chriull said: Unfortionately you removed the fractions of the seconds in the xlsx file Hmm. My wheel log don`t show fractions of the seconds. I only removed rows before 17:30 cos file was too big to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, FunkyWheeling said: Hmm. My wheel log don`t show fractions of the seconds. I only removed rows before 17:30 cos file was too big to handle. I'd assume that happened with the conversion from csv to xlsx. All wheellog versions i know save tenth and hundreth of seconds - but who knows, maybe rhis changed with the newest versions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leucistic Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Chriull said: I'd assume that happened with the conversion from csv to xlsx. All wheellog versions i know save tenth and hundreth of seconds - but who knows, maybe rhis changed with the newest versions? Yeah that is strange. I have the csv too and it looks the same. Well it would be handy to see those tenths and hundreds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leucistic Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I was so concerned about my fall so I went out and tryed to dublicate my fall. This time with fully charged and balanced battery. I rode same hill section with more speed and momentum to uphill. Didn`t fall this time . So my conclusion is that if battery level is ~50% the voltage sag at hill will go so low that wheel is trying to do tilt back (felt like stone jam inside cover dip) and lower the voltage further or there was actually a stone that it tryed to clear. Wheel will shut down to protect it self. For now on i will attack my speedy forest trail only with good battery level. Well live and learn . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wehey Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I rode my KS16S up some seriously steep hill all off-road and never had a problem. its the state of charge at the time that caused the problem. It's more a case of user error than wheel error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 On 8/27/2019 at 5:27 PM, FunkyWheeling said: Yeah that is strange. I have the csv too and it looks the same. Well it would be handy to see those tenths and hundreds. You opened it with a texteditor? Normal opening with an office suite already includes import and reformating. On 8/28/2019 at 8:20 AM, FunkyWheeling said: So my conclusion is that if battery level is ~50% the voltage sag at hill will go so low that wheel is trying to do tilt back Low voltage tiltback is normally just at real low battery like <~5%? ...or once the wheel overheats. On 8/28/2019 at 8:20 AM, FunkyWheeling said: Wheel will shut down to protect it self. Fortunately this is not happening anymore - just the very first generations had such behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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