Has Anyone Experienced a Random Cutoff from the KS-16s?

[seage]

Hi all,

I'm brand new to the forums and EUC's in general. I'm actually so new that my first wheel hasn't arrived yet. I've been doing a ton of research on safety and whatnot to HOPEFULLY cut down on the damage i incur when i inevitably grind sand into glass with my cheek. I understand that's a risk you take when riding on 1 wheel and i'm willing to take it. Although I do like to be prepared for certain possibilities. This is why I've been researching how to fall safely and other things that I hope can become reflex enough to save me a few broken bones. I know i wont be able to prepare for everything, but I may as well prepare for the things that could help, right? 

I bought this EUC for commuting, so i have no intention of testing the top speed or any of that. I just want to get from a-b comfortably without breaking a sweat. When I want to go fast, I take out my road bike and let loose. Haven't fallen on that in a long time, so that false sense of confidence is still brimming, lol. (Just means i haven't pushed it in years). 

 

So basically, I was wondering about some of the shortcomings of this wheel. I want to know if its going to randomly toss me into a brick wall at speed. I went with kingsong because out of all the brands I researched, this one seemed to be the safest, with them constantly improving their firmware and wheels for less machine errors. And with a quick google search, nothing came up about this wheel specifically (The Kingsong KS-16s)

 

Thank you all for reading this, and nice to meet you all!

[gr8ps]

I'd take it easy on it for a few days until you can trust it. I think the failure rates on the 16S is fairly low. I have a little over 500 miles on it without any mechanical defects. I've took the wheel apart to repair a flat and can tell you it is built robustly. The weak point is certainly the handle, which can get dirt trapped in it and cause issues with the locking mechanism. Shell is tough, I've had my fair share of falls and it keeps on ticking. 

As far as cutouts, I haven't had any. However, I have heard of cutouts happening with Kingsongs as well so they are not immune. That said, I ride the beep all the time and I've been good.

[seage]

31 minutes ago, gr8ps said:

I'd take it easy on it for a few days until you can trust it. I think the failure rates on the 16S is fairly low. I have a little over 500 miles on it without any mechanical defects. I've took the wheel apart to repair a flat and can tell you it is built robustly. The weak point is certainly the handle, which can get dirt trapped in it and cause issues with the locking mechanism. Shell is tough, I've had my fair share of falls and it keeps on ticking. 

As far as cutouts, I haven't had any. However, I have heard of cutouts happening with Kingsongs as well so they are not immune. That said, I ride the beep all the time and I've been good.

I'll have to take it easy regardless as I'm going to be learning on this wheel. I cant even trust myself, haha. I'm happy to hear about the build quality though. That seems to be the general consensus! Glad to have it reconfirmed XD And I see! I'll do my best to keep the handle and that area clean, thank you! 

Im preparing myself to get bruised up due to human error quite a lot. I'm not so used to falling anymore, so this is a bit scary, haha. I guess overall is...they're pretty great, but no EUC is 100% yet. I guess i just have to prepare myself for that day, haha. (I should probably invest in a full face helmet asap)

 

Thank you for your response!~ 

[Smoother]

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Don't worry about sudden cut-outs. They are a possibility on principle, but just don't happen with modern wheels. No matter the brand.

Worry about regular crashes, because that's what gets everyone. That curb you missed, and so on.

Wrist guards, knee guards, (full face) helmet are your friends (as well as any other gear you might wear) and should a hardware cut-out really happen (it won't), they'll protect you then, too.

[winterwheel]

 

13 hours ago, seage said:

when i inevitably grind sand into glass with my cheek

While I've had a fair number of four-point dismounts I've never had one while commuting in fair-or-better weather conditions. They have all come while commuting in extreme winter conditions or while doing non-commuting rides. The nice thing about commuting is you have the option to ride the same path every day, so you get to know the route like the back of your hand. This takes out 99% of the risk of random four point dismounts. Riding unknown paths on the weekend for fun, well that's where things get interesting, and that's where you want to take more precautions.

[seage]

8 hours ago, Smoother said:

 

Thanks for sharing this thread. Yeesh. I'll stay alert for any sort of defect like that and be sure to not ride it if i detect it! Thanks for the heads up!! Will help me keep my head on. 

 

*ive run out of responses for the day, but i have my response to the other 2 written. I'll have to post it tomorrow~

Edited January 2, 2019 by seage

[esaj]

1 hour ago, seage said:

Thanks for sharing this thread. Yeesh. I'll stay alert for any sort of defect like that and be sure to not ride it if i detect it! Thanks for the heads up!! Will help me keep my head on. 

 

*ive run out of responses for the day, but i have my response to the other 2 written. I'll have to post it tomorrow~

Once you get a few posts in and people upvote those, the posting limitations should be gone. I'm not even sure what the limits are nowadays, and they're not publicly announced to prevent spammers. I know it's annoying, but in addition to the bots/scripts/spammers that try to push "free certifications/fake documents/whatever" from the get go, we also do rarely get spammers that actually pretend to be "good citizens" until they get free posting (and PM) privileges...

[US69]

9 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Don't worry about sudden cut-outs. They are a possibility on principle, but just don't happen with modern wheels. No matter the brand.

Worry about regular crashes, because that's what gets everyone. That curb you missed, and so on.

Wrist guards, knee guards, (full face) helmet are your friends (as well as any other gear you might wear) and should a hardware cut-out really happen (it won't), they'll protect you then, too.

@seage Meepmeep hit the nail perfectly on the head  :-)

Dont worry about unexspected cutouts, actually the 16S is one of the wheels with the best board and safety records!

Yes, on ALL wheels, no matter what brand there is a slight minimal  chance of having a defect, as no parts at all are redundant on our wheels, and pretty sure you will find one or two bad examples on EVERY wheel that is available, here in the forum.

BUT: When you have that idea all time in mind while driving, it is better to not drive at all, as such a permanent feeling would ruin the feeling of gliding.

So in short: 

Good choice, nonetheless keep protected with gear, and most important:

Have Fun!!

Aah ja...and welcome :-) 

Edited January 2, 2019 by US69

[meepmeepmayer]

15 minutes ago, US69 said:

and pretty sure you will find one or two bad examples on EVERY wheel that is available, here in the forum.

For the newer wheels, not even that. For example, I don't think an MSX, 18L, or V10 has ever been known to hardware-fail out of the blue while riding. Even the older wheels like my ACM simply don't do that.

[esaj]

2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

For the newer wheels, not even that. For example, I don't think an MSX, 18L, or V10 has ever been known to hardware-fail out of the blue while riding. Even the older wheels like my ACM simply don't do that.

Ahem, didn't some V10's burst into flames due to battery fault?  Maybe that was just during charging and not while actually riding...

[meepmeepmayer]

Not during riding.

Not out of the blue, it was due to water intrusion into a badly protected battery which they fixed.

[seage]

18 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Don't worry about sudden cut-outs. They are a possibility on principle, but just don't happen with modern wheels. No matter the brand.

Worry about regular crashes, because that's what gets everyone. That curb you missed, and so on.

Wrist guards, knee guards, (full face) helmet are your friends (as well as any other gear you might wear) and should a hardware cut-out really happen (it won't), they'll protect you then, too.

Thank you for the reassurance! And yeah, haha, the regular crashes are gonna get me. Hopefully I can stay alert enough to minimize that after a while, but I'm guessing at first as i get used to things, i'll be going down a lot. I need to grab that fullface soon! Im pretty excited to ride once my wheel gets here, even though its winter already. Roads are dry (for now)

11 hours ago, winterwheel said:

 

While I've had a fair number of four-point dismounts I've never had one while commuting in fair-or-better weather conditions. They have all come while commuting in extreme winter conditions or while doing non-commuting rides. The nice thing about commuting is you have the option to ride the same path every day, so you get to know the route like the back of your hand. This takes out 99% of the risk of random four point dismounts. Riding unknown paths on the weekend for fun, well that's where things get interesting, and that's where you want to take more precautions.

Ah, i get ya! Yeah, the path will be pretty simple out here. I live in a quiet city, but i'll be taking a train into toronto and thats where it gets busy. And since im new, i wont be doing any snow riding, haha. Hopefully I can find a quieter path to my destination. I'll be sure to pad up and be ready for the possibility of going down. I'm glad that it'll be human error taking me out, haha. I guess all this research in advance of receiving my wheel had made me nervous. Seeing the heavy falls and horror stories. But then, I've seen compilation of terrible cycling accidents, and havent mimicked any of those in 20 years. I guess the lesson is to ride smart and within my means. Thanks!

9 hours ago, esaj said:

Once you get a few posts in and people upvote those, the posting limitations should be gone. I'm not even sure what the limits are nowadays, and they're not publicly announced to prevent spammers. I know it's annoying, but in addition to the bots/scripts/spammers that try to push "free certifications/fake documents/whatever" from the get go, we also do rarely get spammers that actually pretend to be "good citizens" until they get free posting (and PM) privileges...

I understand and that makes sense. I run a discord and sometime we let things slip under the radar and its always annoying. Makes sense to have some features put in place to filter out the wack, haha.

9 hours ago, US69 said:

@seage Meepmeep hit the nail perfectly on the head  :-)

Dont worry about unexspected cutouts, actually the 16S is one of the wheels with the best board and safety records!

Yes, on ALL wheels, no matter what brand there is a slight minimal  chance of having a defect, as no parts at all are redundant on our wheels, and pretty sure you will find one or two bad examples on EVERY wheel that is available, here in the forum.

BUT: When you have that idea all time in mind while driving, it is better to not drive at all, as such a permanent feeling would ruin the feeling of gliding.

So in short: 

Good choice, nonetheless keep protected with gear, and most important:

Have Fun!!

Aah ja...and welcome :-) 

You're right. If im riding scared, im more likely to make stupid mistakes too. Better to have fun, ride smart and enjoy my time. I reallly wonder what its gonna be like. Ive never even seen a wheel in person and i just dived right into it. saw a bunch of youtube videos and was like "Yep, this is for me". I will have fun riding in my garage and unfinished basement for a moment as it snowed heavy last night. Yaaaaaaaaaaaay! (nooooooooooooo!)

 

Free at last to respond twice! 

[meepmeepmayer]

6 hours ago, seage said:

I need to grab that fullface soon!

Yep, having one is very reassuring. I rode without helmet for a long time, always with a tiny but present worry, before I  figured it might end up badly if I fall, no matter the reason, even if the hardware doesn't fail and I just miss a rock or whatever. Full face helmet solves that.

Don't forget wrist guards, most important riding gear by far.

6 hours ago, seage said:

If im riding scared, im more likely to make stupid mistakes too.

This is much more true for  EUCs than other vehicles. Nothing makes you ride better than being prepared (you and the wheel protected) and relaxed, with no worries in the back of your mind.

6 hours ago, seage said:

Ive never even seen a wheel in person and i just dived right into it. saw a bunch of youtube videos and was like "Yep, this is for me".

Haha. Had that too. Saw a video, "that's a bit weird"... a day later, I wanted one so badly!

[winterwheel]

6 hours ago, seage said:

Seeing the heavy falls and horror stories.

Also keep in mind that wheels are still quite new and improving all the time. A lot of the stuff you may be hearing is from people who were riding in the early days when wheels were much more ... experimental ... than they are now.

[Smoother]

2 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Also keep in mind that wheels are still quite new and improving all the time. A lot of the stuff you may be hearing is from people who were riding in the early days when wheels were much more ... experimental ... than they are now.

Exactly.  And because you are here reading and seeing the crashes and the analysis of what went wrong, you are several steps ahead of the game, assuming you can learn from other people's experiences without having to replicate the scenario to see if it's true.  A clever man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others...Confucius.  Na, not really, it's just not so common sense. 

[seage]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Yep, having one is very reassuring. I rode without helmet for a long time, always with a tiny but present worry, before I  figured it might end up badly if I fall, no matter the reason, even if the hardware doesn't fail and I just miss a rock or whatever. Full face helmet solves that.

Don't forget wrist guards, most important riding gear by far.

This is much more true for  EUCs than other vehicles. Nothing makes you ride better than being prepared (you and the wheel protected) and relaxed, with no worries in the back of your mind.

Haha. Had that too. Saw a video, "that's a bit weird"... a day later, I wanted one so badly!

I used to be more of a free spirit. A "i'll be okay!" type guy. But now that my career is going well, i actually want to live to continue it LOL. So i'm in this for the long run. I'm on the helmet thread right now, trying to find something i'll like. I bought new wristguards as my old ones were like, palm protectors. I went with triple eight but i want to get the flexmeters once i can afford em. They're quite pricey, aren't they? I guess you cant put a price on safety though. 

2 hours ago, winterwheel said:

Also keep in mind that wheels are still quite new and improving all the time. A lot of the stuff you may be hearing is from people who were riding in the early days when wheels were much more ... experimental ... than they are now.

Ah, you're right. I didn't think about this. Just the other day I started paying more attention to the dates when people were talking about issues. Ive heard a little bit about back when people were essentially beta testers. Or really, crash test dummies, haha.

2 hours ago, Smoother said:

Exactly.  And because you are here reading and seeing the crashes and the analysis of what went wrong, you are several steps ahead of the game, assuming you can learn from other people's experiences without having to replicate the scenario to see if it's true.  A clever man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others...Confucius.  Na, not really, it's just not so common sense. 

Right! I do try to live by that. I understand i'll have to fall to understand how to deal with it and recover/protect myself (ie. dont stiffen and straighten my arms unless i enjoy the sound *CRACK*) but other things in theory such as what type of environmental conditions can cause certain types of reactions from the wheel. Although, as you said, mainly common sense. XD

I've been studying falling recently. Its kinda funny to throw myself to the ground, but i want it to be muscle memory to not stiffen up certain parts of my body. I know there are some falls i'll take where i'll just have to let gravity decide on what happens to me, haha. But others that i can roll out of with minimal injury 

Seems I can respond freely now! Thanks for the upvotes, guys, haha!

Im HOPING my wheel comes today so i can truly understand what its like to glide XD. Even though the ground is all snowy now. I'll practice in my garage for a while, haha. 

[seage]

Oh! Its here! Haha. It came today! 

[Joker10]

1200 cutout free miles on mine.  I did hit an unexpected dip in an unfamiliar rod today going slightly downhill at about 17 miles per hour.  I heard the wheel say something to me but could not understand what it said.  It’s strange because I have voice turned off it never says please decelerate.  I got some pretty serious tiltback and thought I was going over backwards but the pedals came back to level and I rode out of it.

[seage]

On 1/5/2019 at 11:12 PM, Joker10 said:

1200 cutout free miles on mine.  I did hit an unexpected dip in an unfamiliar rod today going slightly downhill at about 17 miles per hour.  I heard the wheel say something to me but could not understand what it said.  It’s strange because I have voice turned off it never says please decelerate.  I got some pretty serious tiltback and thought I was going over backwards but the pedals came back to level and I rode out of it.

Very cool! And thats strange. My brother learned to ride today (before me, lol). And he hit the max and got tiltback. He tried to push through and it just threw him off into a neighbors flower patch. It was quite interesting to see him flail backwards, catch himself then chase the wheel as it knocked down 4 of their lights.... *edit* This was a short ride at a slower speed on an empty street so none of the property was actually damaged, the lights were the spiked type so they just fell down. It was silly of him to do and I told him off afterwards, but I think he learned his lesson. A hard lesson learned and something I plan not to mimic XD

But anyways, thanks for that! I was riding today, learning the wheel and it got a bit funky with the tilt at one point. It was just on a weird angle, but i think it was because the tire didnt have enough pressure and i was on a strange angle, and it just kinda.....tilted forward too far then back, then back forward again, then i just hopped off and it balanced itself out. I should probably learn on flatter ground. Glad you were able to ride out safely! 

Edited January 7, 2019 by seage
added more context to tiltback

[Chriull]

5 hours ago, seage said:

I was riding today, learning the wheel and it got a bit funky with the tilt at one point. It was just on a weird angle, but i think it was because the tire didnt have enough pressure and i was on a strange angle, and it just kinda.....tilted forward too far then back, then back forward again, then i just hopped off and it balanced itself out.

On rough grounds with low speeds, especially if one is not too experienced and cannot balance/handle the wheel very well one easily "overpowers" a wheel. There are huge currents needed and the wheel "decides" to protect itself so no wires/mosfets burn -> pedals tilt forward.

5 hours ago, seage said:

I should probably learn on flatter ground.

+1!

5 hours ago, seage said:

And he hit the max and got tiltback. He tried to push through and it just threw him off into a neighbors flower patch.

Tiltback is just an arbitrary "safety" limit choosen by the manufacturer. It safes one from some/many ways of overpowering the wheel, but one can safely "ride the tiltback" and on the other side overpower/overlean his wheel without having any tiltback or other warning...

If you're interested in a bit more details of EUC power limits, i tried some summary here:

 

[Joker10]

I encourage you to set the tiltback lower than the maximum speed and getting used to how it feels and how to react and ride it.  You can set tiltback to 6 or 8kmh and get familiar with it at lower speeds then gradually increase it and get used to it at higher speeds.  One thing you learn with experience is not to push the wheel too hard when it is near its limits.  If you slowly go beyond the wheels limits it will respond with a more gradual tiltback that is manageable.  If you are passing the wheels limits while leaning forward and accelerating hard it will respond with more aggressive tiltback and you are more likely to be thrown off balance and have an unplanned dismount.  I set my final beep alarm for 33 kmh so I don’t accidentally hammer the wheel at 35kmh and receive severe tilt back.  Your a new rider so here are some unsolicited pointers.  Wear some protective gear wrist guards and a helmet at the least, scan your riding surface carefully and look for those depressions/ potholes / sidewalk problems, keep those knees slightly bent to allow for some suspension, and have a lot of fun.

[Smoother]

8 hours ago, seage said:

My brother learned to ride today (before me, lol). And he hit the max and got tiltback. He tried to push through and it just threw him off into a neighbors flower patch. It was quite interesting to see him flail backwards, catch himself then chase the wheel as it knocked down 4 of their lights....

Barreling around at high speed on the first day, destroying neighbors front gardens IS NOT LEARNED.  Both of you need to slow the F..down and learn how to ride responsibly.  Watching  videos of others flying around at speed and under full control, does not show the countless hours they have spent developing the skills needed to make it look effortless.

[ED209]

@Smoother, I am just glad @seage is in Toronto and not England, he could easily ruin things for all of us. 😀

[seage]

4 hours ago, Smoother said:

Barreling around at high speed on the first day, destroying neighbors front gardens IS NOT LEARNED.  Both of you need to slow the F..down and learn how to ride responsibly.  Watching  videos of others flying around at speed and under full control, does not show the countless hours they have spent developing the skills needed to make it look effortless.

I should probably respond to this first. Yeah, he went too fast and I yelled at him to slow down. I myself never even hit 10km/h (probably averaging 5km/h - 8km/h at most before breaking and stepping off) as i'm still learning to find my balance and get used to the wheel. And I only rode on the schoolgrounds (Brick walls and a giant field around us with no access to a road) with 0 pedestrians, or vehicles. I'm not a child and I don't do unnecessary reckless things that could potentially injure myself of others, be it a person or their property. I purposely walked the wheel to the location to ride, and walked it home. My brother, who had just learned, attempted to ride the last leg home (which was a mistake - but still made sure there were no people of cars around). We were about 30 - 40 metres away from the house when he hopped on. The top speed is set lower and is limited as I no intention of going faster than that even after the wheel unlocks, so the tiltback happened earlier. He messed up and it pushed him off. No one was around when it happened, but it still wasn't an excuse for him acting silly. And I did tell him off after the incident, but I figured I'd leave that part out when talking about it here. But I did want to clear it up as you seem to be getting the idea that we were both riding down a busy footpath dodging people and crashing into homes. I have no need for speed and I'm not trying to mimic a youtuber that has been riding for 9 years because i DO understand they have full control of the machine. 

3 hours ago, ED209 said:

@Smoother, I am just glad @seage is in Toronto and not England, he could easily ruin things for all of us. 😀

Hopefully that clears things up. I have no plans on ruining things for anybody, and my brother doesn't live here/isn't an EUC owner so i dont think he will be either. I do take responsibility for his actions though as I allowed him to ride, but I didnt know he would push forward. I've never felt the pushback or heard the warning because I haven't gone that fast and dont plan to ride the beep as some people call it. I have no interest in speed. I just want to make it from point a to point b alive and thats why i got it.  

 

Again, i'm not trying to defend his behaviour, and I actually agree that what happened was reckless and stupid. But I needed to explain that the story is a bit different from how it seemed when i casually typed it last night. My apologies to anyone I worried or upset. But I am the rider of this unicycle as my brother doesn't live here, own one and I don't think he will be purchasing one. And I plan to ride responsibly.

Edited January 6, 2019 by seage