KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Mono]

45 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

And what are you trying to dampen?

OK, so...

33 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I understand physics of it all.

ehmm, that is pretty impressive 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Mono

[B08AH]

Quote

I don’t ever want to be. Hitting any significant bump if you are not ready, you will be thrown suspension or not.  

There isn’t any way to replace your legs.

Potentially, suspension is able to completely cancel out any bump within given limits. bose suspension

There is no such sophisticated suspension even on most expensive vehicles though. So it won't reach unicycles anytime soon.

But even cheapest suspension, containing shock absorbers along with springs is, well, absorbing shock coming from hitting those bumps. So even though it won't cancel out the bump, it will result in lower shock as if hitting much smaller bump. Resulting in less shock hitting the knees.

Anyway, you can compare electric scooters with and without suspension, difference is significant.

 

[Mike Paolini]

9 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t know if you are trying to pick a fight with me or if you really don’t understand the physics involved. Either way, it seems that trying to explain why everything you just wrote is nonsense would be a waste of time.

@mrelwood Yea, he's like that.  Had to block him on facebook and thinking about doing it here - he'd deny basic things like the MSX tire being bigger (calling it Gotway marketing etc).  It's the Dunning Kruger effect I think.  Best to ignore him.

[Unventor]

@eddiemoy I know this is not an EUC in that sense however... about suspension it does have some level of suspension and the tyre is not inflatable. It is called Kiwano K01. A buddy of mine have this and from what I gather he is happy with it. But then again he uses it for different reasons than what I use my KS18L for. 

His biggest complaint is the pedal size 😁 would be fun to see a Jason pedal mod for it. 

As for suspension it is working fine for cubelstones but it can't handle high curbs. 

[mythe00]

There have been a lot of novel suspension designs in many recent electric scooters, it would be nice to see some of them make their way to unicycles too.  The introduction of suspension has definitely been a huge plus on skateboards, scooters, and other similar electric devices so I don't see why not unicycles.  Air filled tires can only do so much.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

It seems, we have a totally different conceptions of what suspension means and implies.

I think this is indeed the key point, thanks Mono! I adore the gentlemanly and calm mood you sustained in your replies.

I imagine a good suspension system on an EUC to have a range of travel of about an inch. Or two, tops. As such it would be just another add-on to the tire and for example running shoes, to offer modest decoupling to reduce the initial shock and bounce-back. Not to make potholes disappear, replace skills, body parts, or other less relevant matters that were brought up, wether they were given to you or grown by yourself.

Edited June 10, 2019 by mrelwood

[eddiemoy]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

The idea that one would need to be strapped to a vehicle because it has suspension doesn't make any sense to me. It seems, we have a totally different conceptions of what suspension means and implies. Maybe a good summary is that I believe suspension reduces the (vertical) motion of the sprung mass, while you seem to suggest that suspension increases the (vertical) motion of the sprung mass.

I am even pretty certain though that one of the main reasons to introduce suspension is to reduce vertical motion of the sprung mass. So be it, I guess that's not going to change any time soon 

Just FTR, I am a fierce proponent of bent and soft knees, I believe it is one of the major safety measures we have when riding an EUC.

How do you suppose we fit springs and shocks into an EUC?  We rely on the pedal to steer and control forward and backwards movement.  I think that installing any moving parts on the pedal would be a disaster. 

I know what a suspension is supposed to do in a car and bike, but we are strapped into our car and bike so any issues with bottoming out or going over a bigger bump, you just hang on for dear life.  You can’t do that in an EUC hence the comment about us not being strapped in. 

[eddiemoy]

21 minutes ago, Unventor said:

@eddiemoy I know this is not an EUC in that sense however... about suspension it does have some level of suspension and the tyre is not inflatable. It is called Kiwano K01. A buddy of mine have this and from what I gather he is happy with it. But then again he uses it for different reasons than what I use my KS18L for. 

His biggest complaint is the pedal size 😁 would be fun to see a Jason pedal mod for it. 

As for suspension it is working fine for cubelstones but it can't handle high curbs. 

Yes, that device has something for you to hang on to like a bike.  We ride on EUC with nothing to hang on to to control the uncontrolled upwards movements.  Would kick you off I would imagine. 

[eddiemoy]

15 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I think this is indeed the key point, thanks Mono! I adore the gentlemanly and calm mood you sustained in your replies.

I imagine a good suspension system on an EUC to have a range of travel of about an inch. Or two, tops. As such it would be just another add-on to the tire and for example running shoes, to offer modest decoupling to reduce the initial shock and bounce-back. Not to make potholes disappear, replace skills, body parts, or other less relevant matters that were brought up, wether they were given to you or grown by yourself.

So your big idea is to put an inch of suspension into the EUC?  I think I have that in my sneaker.  Isn’t there a sneaker that has the 1” you are asking for already?

I’ll just leave it at that and let it sink in.  

On second thought, think I might be wrong here, great idea, maybe lobby GW to put it into their wheel.  It would be a game changer like you said  .

 

[Mono]

37 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Yes, that device has something for you to hang on to like a bike.  We ride on EUC with nothing to hang on to to control the uncontrolled upwards movements.  Would kick you off I would imagine. 

I assume you haven't seen this yet. It certainly doesn't look like to have market maturity as of yet, in particular lacking damping, but even without damping it doesn't seem to kick the rider off for some magical reasons:

 

[Michael Tucker]

I have found that the tire is the single biggest contributor to ride quality on an EUCs and e-Scooters, in large part because of the shock absorbing characteristics. This became most notable to me when I switched from a KS18L (Kenda Gator Tire) to KS18XL (CST or Chao Yang Tire). The Kenda was very stiff and rough pavement vibrations were unpleasant and unseen road dips/bumps were jarring. The CST/Chao Yang alleviated the rough pavement vibrations and surprise dips/bumps were not as sharp. The KS18L was like a dirt bike and the KS18XL was like an SUV. I liked both of these riding experiences depending on my mood. Tire chemistry, height of tire wall and tire width play a large noticeable role in passive ride suspension and I would expect advancements in the tire to be the fastest and cheapest solution for EUCs instead of expensive, clunky active forms.

Suspension whether active or passive still has to be managed by the rider by leg control or you could be trampolined off any thing with suspension. If you stand in the middle of a longboard and jump up and down like on a trampoline, you can see and feel the effects of that type of suspension. Yet when you ride that board at speed you manage the board by leg control and foot placement to take advantage of the suspension and not become victim to it. In general most wheeled devices that move fast do better with some form of suspension, passive or active.

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

Yes, that device has something for you to hang on to like a bike.  We ride on EUC with nothing to hang on to to control the uncontrolled upwards movements.  Would kick you off I would imagine. 

No it will not. That is the simple answer. 

The little longer answer go to your car and push down your hood on one wheel, you will see the sink down but it does now bounch back and if you hit a hole or edge so hard it does cause bounch back it is much preferred compared to not have any (assisted suspension, by this I mean any designed suspension and the skills of the rider). 

So your next argument is it is a car not an EUC. But you will see same thing happen on a mountain bike or mopen. Design may differ but end effect is the same. 

Both GW and Inmotion have earlier declared they have tested different systems but yet we are not pasted testing. It would be byound my imagination that Kingsong should not persue ideas of suspension options either. 

[gon2fast]

Sorry to interrupt the debate on EUC suspension, but have there been any recent updates on the release date of the 16X? 

 

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, gon2fast said:

Sorry to interrupt the debate on EUC suspension, but have there been any recent updates on the release date of the 16X? 

 

I have seen on an Russian forum, the past few days they confirm July (late) as arrival. 

www.eunicycle.eu updated  both specs, pictures and also delivery as late July. 

Now I have not seen for other regions than close or in EU. I do think it depends a lot of the dealer ordering from first batch or wait for a later batch. 

[Marty Backe]

I wish I could post the video (but I can't) of the work that a local rider has done with EUC suspensions (modified Gotway wheel). I've seen it ride over construction timbers (not 1-inch travel mentioned by @eddiemoy)

It's real and it works. Why anyone would not like EUC suspension is a mystery to me.

I think suspensions will be mainstream eventually as the manufacturers continue to improve our wheels. Might be 5-years from now, but it'll happen.

[Rehab1]

13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I think suspensions will be mainstream eventually as the manufacturers continue to improve our wheels. Might be 5-years from now, but it'll happen.

This EUC concept that has been depicted on the forum many times.  If you examine the structure, mechanics and the active suspension incorporated into this design it would definitely be feasible on all levels. 

 

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

This EUC concept that has been depicted on the forum many times.  If you examine the structure, mechanics and the active suspension incorporated into this design it would definitely be feasible on all levels. 

 

If only they actually made that wheel, huh   Wasn't this from Inmotion? I can't remember.

[stephen]

13 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

This EUC concept that has been depicted on the forum many times.  If you examine the structure, mechanics and the active suspension incorporated into this design it would definitely be feasible on all levels. 

 

I'd buy that without a doubt 😊

[Unventor]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

If only they actually made that wheel, huh   Wasn't this from Inmotion? I can't remember.

Yep it was a teaser from Inmotion before releasing the V10. It was on the blog of Inmotion USA with what they have been working on and what they decide would take too long to implement into the V10 at the time. 

That said, I saw someone from Inmotion stating they have not given up the idea of suspension yet... But no further details. But since I decided not to get a V10 and that I sold off my V8 for sparrs/repair job I have not followed Inmotion that much. 

Now that said I still strongly believe that KS16X is my best option for upgrade and second wheel in company with my KS18L. I doubt I ever will become a @Marty Backe mk II and do mountain trails, simply due to my knee unless we see really good active suspension. 

[Unventor]

2 minutes ago, stephen said:

I'd buy that without a doubt 😊

Many have said so when Inmotion posted their blog last late spring/early summer. Most also said price didn't matter if it worked as cool as it looks. 

Now looking at Rockwheels GT18 had similar looks but apparently it never cought funding (yet). 

[Mono]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I wish I could post the video (but I can't) of the work that a local rider has done with EUC suspensions (modified Gotway wheel). I've seen it ride over construction timbers (not 1-inch travel mentioned by @eddiemoy)

It's real and it works. Why anyone would not like EUC suspension is a mystery to me.

I think suspensions will be mainstream eventually as the manufacturers continue to improve our wheels. Might be 5-years from now, but it'll happen.

Here are my three four question on the technical specs:

1. Added weight = ?
2. Suspension travel = ?
3. Weight of the unsprung mass = ?
4. Change if wheel width = ?

If the answers are <=1.5kg, >=5cm, <=3kg, and <=1cm, I will change the camp and become a pro-suspenser  eh, suspensioner?

Edited June 10, 2019 by Mono

[Unventor]

4 minutes ago, Mono said:

Here are my three question on the technical specs:

1. Added weight = ?
2. Suspension travel = ?
3. Weight of the unsprung mass = ?
4. Change if wheel width = ?

If the answers are <=1.5kg, >=5cm, <=3kg, and <=1cm, I will change the camp and become a pro-suspenser  eh, suspensioner?

It only 1.3kg... 3.8cm... 4kg 1.5cm....so I guess it back to all legs for you 

[eddiemoy]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

I assume you haven't seen this yet. It certainly doesn't look like to have market maturity as of yet, in particular lacking damping, but even without damping it doesn't seem to kick the rider off for some magical reasons:

 

interesting, wonder why non of makers are putting something like that in their wheel?  Sorry, I don't see any benefit of you moving independent from the wheel.  looks unnerving and unstable.  

[eddiemoy]

35 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

This EUC concept that has been depicted on the forum many times.  If you examine the structure, mechanics and the active suspension incorporated into this design it would definitely be feasible on all levels. 

 

sorry, not my cup of tea since it isn't at all practical.  not sure why anyone would fall for this as if you think about how you ride, this wouldn't work.  no side pads.  who makes a pedal out of totally slippery metal?  

the middle is supposed to be some engine?  2 stroke?  

can't tell if the suspension is functional.  

again, if it was working and if there was a lot of interest, i'm sure they would have made it already.  

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I wish I could post the video (but I can't) of the work that a local rider has done with EUC suspensions (modified Gotway wheel). I've seen it ride over construction timbers (not 1-inch travel mentioned by @eddiemoy)

It's real and it works. Why anyone would not like EUC suspension is a mystery to me.

I think suspensions will be mainstream eventually as the manufacturers continue to improve our wheels. Might be 5-years from now, but it'll happen.

Marty, are you saying that we cannot ride over constitutions timbers today with our current wheels?  Even in a NB P, people were riding over construction timbers and bricks.  Why is that impressive?

Maybe I don't impress easy.  Especially with stuff we don't need and can do by simply bending our knees.