KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[houseofjob]

6 minutes ago, Daniel-Son said:

Now I know why houseofjob hasn’t release his review..

I was really conflicted on this, plus all my experience is on the old problematic preprod 16X board & setup, so I didn't see the point in relating my experiences on what was not to be the actual production model 16X experience, in its entirety.

And what I was hoping for was that these new fixes would Actually fix the issues, so then I could give a better, more positive and constructive review, but alas, that was not to be.

 

But also, perhaps you just got a bad unit or bad board(?) Hard to tell amongst all these mixed reports on the early 16X's and early 16X firmware, not to mention how each King Song response to the issues seem to be a very Asian businessman "yes, yes, we've addressed the issue" even though they might not have totally fixed the issue.

I would wait until this apparent new 16X FW rollout (dear God, I've heard this story 3 times over now in the short 16X lifespan) before you start possibly exploring a new board swap.

Edited August 2, 2019 by houseofjob

[Daniel-Son]

12 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

What's your bodyweight? I'm at 140 lbs, and I can't quite figure out the tire pressure. Have tried 20-30 psi, and settled on 30. It took about 40 miles for the wheel to feel alright FWIW. 

I weigh 215 and I’m 6’2”. I haven’t had the chance to dial in my psi yet because of the rain. I may need to ride more so a can adjust to this wheel. But it’s my honest first impression and I’m not going to sugar coat it.  It all part of being a first adaptor..

[Daniel-Son]

13 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

But also, perhaps you just got a bad unit or bad board(?) Hard to tell amongst all these mixed reports on the early 16X's and early 16X firmware, not to mention how each King Song response to the issues seem to be a very Asian businessman "yes, yes, we've addressed the issue" even though they might not have totally fixed the issue.

Yeah I might need to take it apart and  examine the wheel. Thanks!

[Daniel-Son]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

My 100-volt Nikola Plus gets many more miles than my 84-volt Nikola. This is real-world results not theory.

You do realize you said “My 100-volt Nikola”.  Now I’m wondering about this friend of yours is actually you! 

[Kens]

NOT MY VIDEO:

KS16X Hill Test!

Edited August 2, 2019 by Kens

[ir_fuel]

First test on the parking lot done. All feels fine. Stance feels similar to my Z10, but a bit higher. Turning is nice. Don't forget I am used to solely riding my Z10 (and a bit of MCM5). The initial turn in has this "I'm going to fall over" feel to it (if I compare to the Z10), but unlike the MCM5 it feels very stable right after. The MCM5 felt a lot more nervous. I presume it's the wider tire at work here.

Trolley is high, a lot higher than on any other wheel I had. Works really well. Wheel feels smooth to ride. Tire pressure currently at 40PSI. Feels pretty bouncy so maybe I'll lower this once I want to go off road.

Hopefully I can still to a decent ride today, otherwise it will be tomorrow. Haven't tested the speakers yet.

I'm running 1.0.2 firmware and did a calibration.

Edited August 2, 2019 by ir_fuel

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Interesting. 

What is your average speed for both 100V & 84V Nikola range tests? and is this tested under mostly high power, mountain climbing scenarios? flats? both?

Former DIY scooter guy @Ben Kim and indirectly the Singaporean DIY scooter guys state that higher V wheels will run more efficient when averaging higher speed, whereas they are less efficient running averaging lower speed.

I still have my formal range test of the 100-volt Nikola planned. But during my inaugural ride I got ~49-miles with 30-percent battery remaining. And for this ride I rode it faster (a lot more 22-mph riding) than I normally do during my range tests. I was just out to have fun.

So based on this anecdotal experience, I'm assuming that it's going to get a lot more than my 54-mile max on the base model Nikola.

When I complete the range tests I'll post the stats for both wheels side-by-side. 

47 minutes ago, Daniel-Son said:

You do realize you said “My 100-volt Nikola”.  Now I’m wondering about this friend of yours is actually you! 

Possession is 9/10's of the law around here 

[Ben Kim]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Interesting. 

What is your average speed for both 100V & 84V Nikola range tests? and is this tested under mostly high power, mountain climbing scenarios? flats? both?

Former DIY scooter guy @Ben Kim and indirectly the Singaporean DIY scooter guys state that higher V wheels will run more efficient when averaging higher speed, whereas they are less efficient running averaging lower speed.

Nobody buys 100V wheels to ride them at 10 mph, so the reported range experiences of the 100V owners should be representative of what we discussed. 

[Patton250]

The people having issues with the 16X right out of the box I just don’t understand unless it’s the settings. When I first rode mine I got alarms and tilt back all over the place. It sucked. But with some help from @Unventor I got the settings right and everything is perfect. Zero issues. I have not done a firmware update yet. Perhaps I shouldn’t. Lol

[eddiemoy]

Sorry haven't been too active here.  I just got my 16X yesterday and took it out for a spin...  Here is what I noticed and learned.

What ever tire they change from the pre-production is causing some change in the riding behavior of the wheel.  

First thing I noticed was the wheel came with 30 psi, i lowed it to 20 psi like I had on the preproduction.  Someone else in the NYC group said they noticed that it had the weird gyro feel of the Z10, I thought it was the tire pressure and dismissed it before I had a chance to ride mine.  When I took mine out for a spin, I can confirm the weird gyro feel was there.  For those that haven't ridden the Z10, the gyro feeling is the unit refusing to lean and wanting to stay upright.  Also with the gyro feel, it turns differently at different speeds kind of like a motorcycle.  Below X speed, you can turn on a dime, above X speed, unit refuses to lean.  This is why I hated the Z10.  But some people love the Z10.  The V10F sometimes had this feeling where it refused to lean.  I learned in the V10F you have to lean more of a diagonal in turns to get it to lean.  I also noticed when going over uneven surfaces, the tire tracked the unevenness.  Very unnerving.  I'm guessing it is the side walls catching the irregularities and pulling the wheel one way then again to the other side when it hits another area of the surface.  Not a good first impression as I was expecting the same feeling of the pre-production wheel, not for the wheel to feel like a Z10 which I absolutely hated.

I tried again to adjust to the feeling.  Rolling slowly in the 16X had this weird slow wobble feeling also. 

I only rode it for 10-15 minutes, gave up.  Concluded that the only difference between the preproduction and the production is the change in the tire.  So now I know that the Z10 gyro feel is strictly from the tire and nothing else.  Initially I thought it might be how they recessed the battery and offset the motor.  NOT the case as experience in the 16X production.

 

5 hours later, came back and tried to ride again, lowered tire pressure a little bit more to 18psi and went for another run.  This time it felt a little bit better.   Not sure if my brain adjusted a little to it.  Still couldn't turn initially.  But then I tried a slightly wider riding stance, not anything extreme, but just not hugging the wheel.  Also in the turns I had to commit a little more and hang out away from the usual center of gravity over all the other wheels that have the regular non gyro behavior.  This was uncomfortable in the beginning until I trusted and felt the limit of how far out I can hang.  At the end of the 15 minute session, I was pretty comfortable with the wheel.  I can't say I like it yet. 

 

I prefer the non-gyro wheel feel.  I'll be changing the tire to achieve that.  

 

[Patton250]

11 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Sorry haven't been too active here.  I just got my 16X yesterday and took it out for a spin...  Here is what I noticed and learned.

What ever tire they change from the pre-production is causing some change in the riding behavior of the wheel.  

First thing I noticed was the wheel came with 30 psi, i lowed it to 20 psi like I had on the preproduction.  Someone else in the NYC group said they noticed that it had the weird gyro feel of the Z10, I thought it was the tire pressure and dismissed it before I had a chance to ride mine.  When I took mine out for a spin, I can confirm the weird gyro feel was there.  For those that haven't ridden the Z10, the gyro feeling is the unit refusing to lean and wanting to stay upright.  Also with the gyro feel, it turns differently at different speeds kind of like a motorcycle.  Below X speed, you can turn on a dime, above X speed, unit refuses to lean.  This is why I hated the Z10.  But some people love the Z10.  The V10F sometimes had this feeling where it refused to lean.  I learned in the V10F you have to lean more of a diagonal in turns to get it to lean.  I also noticed when going over uneven surfaces, the tire tracked the unevenness.  Very unnerving.  I'm guessing it is the side walls catching the irregularities and pulling the wheel one way then again to the other side when it hits another area of the surface.  Not a good first impression as I was expecting the same feeling of the pre-production wheel, not for the wheel to feel like a Z10 which I absolutely hated.

I tried again to adjust to the feeling.  Rolling slowly in the 16X had this weird slow wobble feeling also. 

I only rode it for 10-15 minutes, gave up.  Concluded that the only difference between the preproduction and the production is the change in the tire.  So now I know that the Z10 gyro feel is strictly from the tire and nothing else.  Initially I thought it might be how they recessed the battery and offset the motor.  NOT the case as experience in the 16X production.

 

5 hours later, came back and tried to ride again, lowered tire pressure a little bit more to 18psi and went for another run.  This time it felt a little bit better.   Not sure if my brain adjusted a little to it.  Still couldn't turn initially.  But then I tried a slightly wider riding stance, not anything extreme, but just not hugging the wheel.  Also in the turns I had to commit a little more and hang out away from the usual center of gravity over all the other wheels that have the regular non gyro behavior.  This was uncomfortable in the beginning until I trusted and felt the limit of how far out I can hang.  At the end of the 15 minute session, I was pretty comfortable with the wheel.  I can't say I like it yet. 

 

I prefer the non-gyro wheel feel.  I'll be changing the tire to achieve that.  

 

Wow. Thanks for that review. I own a Z10 and I know exactly what “gyro” behavior you’re talking about. I don’t get even the slightest bit of that feeling with my 16X. My 16X is at 25 PSI currently. I weigh 162 lbs. 

[eddiemoy]

2 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Wow. Thanks for that review. I own a Z10 and I know exactly what “gyro” behavior you’re talking about. I don’t get even the slightest bit of that feeling with my 16X. My 16X is at 25 PSI currently. I weigh 162 lbs. 

what tire did it come with?  Maybe your wheel came with the preproduction tire which had no gyro feeling?  The one I have says CX32 on it.  No other name.  It is different than the pre-production.

[Patton250]

Just now, eddiemoy said:

what tire did it come with?  Maybe your wheel came with the preproduction tire which had no gyro feeling?  The one I have says CX32 on it.  No other name.  It is different than the pre-production.

Right now I’m 1200 miles away from my 16X. :-)

Ill ask my son to look when he gets home and report back. Thanks Eddie. 

[UniVehje]

26 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I prefer the non-gyro wheel feel.  I'll be changing the tire to achieve that.  

Me too. I like how my 18XL leans, better than my old V10F. 

This tells me that I wouldn’t like the 16X very much. Is Nikola similar?

Interesting that it’s just the tire. Think how much we are missing information on our wheels. Any wheel could be very different by just switching to a different tire brand. Good to hear you are changing it. We will learn a lot from that. 👍

[eddiemoy]

8 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Me too. I like how my 18XL leans, better than my old V10F. 

This tells me that I wouldn’t like the 16X very much. Is Nikola similar?

Interesting that it’s just the tire. Think how much we are missing information on our wheels. Any wheel could be very different by just switching to a different tire brand. Good to hear you are changing it. We will learn a lot from that. 👍

The Nikola had a little of that feeling and at different times, similar to the V10F.  Nothing seems as nimble as the KS18 or 16S.   The 16X preproduction didnt have the resistance to lean like this one.  So I know it can be fixed.  But have to find the right 3" tire.

[Nils]

2 hours ago, Daniel-Son said:

You do realize you said “My 100-volt Nikola”.  Now I’m wondering about this friend of yours is actually you! 

Ha ha, noticed that as well! @maltocs, you'd better keep a close eye on Marty now. Don't believe believe any stories on how he accidentally "misplaced and lost the wheel"

[ir_fuel]

Just did a 5 mile trip on mine. Recorded it with the GoPro 7. My riding weight is 161lbs. Riding at 40psi. First thing I noticed, and in a big way, is how much more comfortable this wheel is over bumps and cracks than my Z10. For the record, I ran my Z10 at 21psi, so it's certainly not the pressure. Must be the rigidity of the tire. The difference is big. Cornering still needs getting used to, but that will come. I could also ride it at 40km/h without any issues. Guess it pays off to read the manual before  . Stability in a straight line is better on the Z10 (duh), I presume this will get better when I get used to it. What was a bit scary was high-speed braking. I get big wobbles when doing that (Let's see if we see that on the video). Never had that on the Z10, but I presume it's because of the lack of stability and me not being used to it. Let's be clear I am talking about left-right wobbling, not the firmware issue that was discussed at length here.

If anyone has tips on to how to avoid this, let me know. I tried a few things but either they didn't do anything or they made it worse.

 

[Nils]

3 hours ago, Daniel-Son said:

Finally, I did a test ride. So far I’m not liking what I’m feeling. I did a horizontal calibration before I went riding, I did NOT use the packing foam, I used 2 wood studs (2 x 4) and shim them with a level front and back, side to side. Truly leveled. 

I set the tire pressure to 40 psi and rode it a half a block,  it felt very  awkward trying to stay straight. I then set the pressure to 20 psi, that felt much better trying to stay straight but, it almost feels like I’m riding on a cement crack and the wheel is trying to get out.  I did notice that at low speed‘s the wheel does tilt a bit making for a unnatural feeling at times. When I was writing the sensation felt as if the wheel was out of calibration. So there must be something wrong with the software because there is something not quite right. I’m hoping  that when they release the next update it will solve the problem.  Now I know why houseofjob hasn’t release his review..

It raining again and I can’t continue testing.  I only got to ride for 10 mile so it’s too early to tell exactly what I’m feeling but I’m hoping the update will come soon. 

I would suggest you give it some time, and also really take the time to dial in the PSI. I haven't ridden the K16X, but I've found that the Nikola's tire is much more sensitive to having the correct pressure than my previous wheels. Have it right, and it's a dream. Too low, and bad news.. Also took some time to get used to the wider tire coming from the V10F. I figure things might be the same for the 16X.

I thought the 16X had switched to use the same wheel as the Nikola though but then now it seems they didn't?

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Nils said:

I would suggest you give it some time, and also really take the time to dial in the PSI. I haven't ridden the K16X, but I've found that the Nikola's tire is much more sensitive to having the correct pressure than my previous wheels. Have it right, and it's a dream. Too low, and bad news.. Also took some time to get used to the wider tire coming from the V10F. I figure things might be the same for the 16X.

I thought the 16X had switched to use the same wheel as the Nikola though but then now it seems they didn't?

SOMEBODY, please take a picture of the 16X tire markings so we can see once and for all if it's the same tire on the Nikola. Please 

[ir_fuel]

Here you go @Marty Backe

[meepmeepmayer]

That green stripe... is that intentional or due to production?

[houseofjob]

8 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Here you go @Marty Backe

 

 

What the heck? Why did KS send me an altogether different model of this no-name brand, if it's not gonna be production? Are they just picking random tires out of a pile?

Edited August 2, 2019 by houseofjob

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Both no name tires 

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60705882421/Top-Brand-Motorcycle-Tires-New-Motor.html?s=p&spm=a2706.7843667/c.1998817009.11.6aa07a383MygEL

[maltocs]

2 hours ago, Nils said:

Ha ha, noticed that as well! @maltocs, you'd better keep a close eye on Marty now. Don't believe believe any stories on how he accidentally "misplaced and lost the wheel"

After deflowering her, he apparently feels some sort of unhealthy special attachment. The doctor says it will fade with time.

[meepmeepmayer]

18 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Are they just picking random tires out of a pile?

You know the answer, you just don't like it

At least you got a less ugly yellow stripe instead of green. Why are these stripes there???