KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[US69]

Just now, Mike Sacristan said:

Do we know where it throttles? 18XL throttles at 3.3v.

Should be throtthing at 25%...which is in the case of the 16X then a bit higher….

But dont nail me on that….i can report more in 10 days when i have my own

 

[Scatcat]

On 7/25/2019 at 12:49 AM, Rehab1 said:

Don’t feel bad. I’ll be gone on vacation when mine arrives. I thought about having it directly shipped to a FedEx office in Las Vegas but my wife would kill me. 

No Rehab1 no, don't go into the light!

[magicrobots]

I am curious about the light settings:

Is Magic what it does when you're riding, and then Spectra what it does when music is playing?

Going to do some off-road hill climb tests this morning - will post video!

[magicrobots]

Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed something. I've been using the EUC Army 3D printed stand which I bought from Speedy Feet UK, and noticed that with the 16x it looked like it was pushing the stand apart.  So I looked at the base of the 16x to get a measurement out of curiosity and noticed that what I think is happening here is that the padding is getting dislodged by the action of seating it on the EUC stand.

Is anybody else seeing this?  Seems minorly problematic but good to keep an eye on. Wouldn't want the padding to prematurely loosen.

[Mike Paolini]

Geeze, you go to bed and sleep for a few hours and there are suddenly pages and pages of posts!!
 

 

10 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

The only genuinely strange behavior I thought I got was when going really slow at an intersection, it felt like I got tilt back. Then a few mins later, it felt like I had tilt forward!

Maybe it was my imagination. I'll have to see when I ride more.

p.s. What was your tire pressure?

@Jon Stern - This!  I've had weird tilt back at low speeds 4 times now and haven't been able to identify why or how to reproduce it!  Keep an eye on this - you are not alone.  My PSI 40.

 

10 hours ago, Unventor said:

I think you can solve this by doing a balance calibration. 

It sounds like the same behaviour as I felt on my KS18L after firmware update. Once the calibration was done, super fine ride control again. 

@Unventor  I have had this weird tilt back 4 times now, and I've calibrate twice as well thinking the same thing.   I no longer think this is calibration.

 

9 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I wanted this to be my imagination or a calibration issue: I calibrated as well as tried the normal pedal mode. Vibration is still there. It literally feels like a strong restaurant pager under both feet; it's a buzzing vibration that's independent or tire tread or surface. It tingles my feet and numbs them.

Tire pressure at 30psi. Weight: 140 lbs. Wearing soft running shoes.

The plus side is, I'm sure this is what the pre-production people were feeling, so I'm confident this will be fixed by firmware.

It's just, how do you ship something this bad out the factory floor? 

Another factor: low battery. Half the lights are on, and app reads 70V. 

A certain someone said they felt vibrations pushing it past 25mph. I believe this is the same root cause, when there's limited balancing power. 

How do I get the latest firmware? It's showing I have the latest already?

@chrisjunlee   ETA is less than 2 weeks I understand.

 

8 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

Update: while the vibration is unsettling, it doesn't seem to have any effects on rideability. 

I think this is just as ordinary as motor noise, but since it's new to me I overreacted. It's easiest to notice when slowly going downhill braking. Sorry for the panic everyone.

After a bit, I was confident enough to push it to the speed cap of 30 km/hr and brake just fine. 

Now if I can only disable the "bluetooth connected" voice prompt and the power in speaker pop. 

@chrisjunlee
The vibration I think you are feeling is the very strong magnets - I found this strange  at first too at slow speeds coming from my MCM5, and it most noticeable when breaking.  My 2cents.
 

7 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

I guess I’ve been spoiled by the MCM5’s buttery smooth motor. I thought the 16x would be even more luxurious.

Yup, but as you ride more you will stop noting the vibration and start noting how well it turns.

@Marty Backe

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't know, unless you are hypersensitive there really should not be any vibrations like what you describe. Certainly nothing different than your other wheels.

There is some vibration on the KS16X I feel when breaking hard at slow speeds which I think is the effect of the strong magnets.   It botherd me at first because I was hyper focused on failure, but I've since ceased to notice it. 
 

@US69

6 hours ago, US69 said:

Please try Setting the folowing values:

0,0, 23, 24 (would have only one Alarm left and tiltback)

Reason for tryin this:

When under 201kmh...the app Sliders Will NOT accept a Setting with anything over 25mph! And in all your Setting you have tried to use a max 31mph Setting......which then the app refuses to take….

My App took higher settings, but I'm getting weird occasional tilt back at low speeds (like 2-10 mph),  It's happened 4 times now, and never lasts more than a few seconds.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Mike Paolini

[Mike Paolini]

Just because the the above note is long, I want to restate it here on the weird tiltback at low speed problem.  At first I thought it was my imagination too, but I have now had it occur 4 separate times (yes I've calibrated, it was the first thing I did when opening the box, then I did it again after the first tiltback occurred). in about 40 miles.

It's occurred for me twice when starting rolling.  Once when cursing at about 10 mph, and once when going up hill at about 5 mph.

Never happens more than a few seconds, or more than about 15 degrees.

[magicrobots]

2 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

It's occurred for me twice when starting rolling.  Once when cursing at about 10 mph, and once when going up hill at about 5 mph.

Yes - I've had this happen as well, but in my case it's tilt-forward. Dips my toes down it's very unsettling and I've noticed it only when accelerating or going up hill. Never got this on Intermediate ride mode, only in experient.  Weird!!

[Mike Paolini]

@magicrobots

7 minutes ago, magicrobots said:

Yes - I've had this happen as well, but in my case it's tilt-forward. Dips my toes down it's very unsettling and I've noticed it only when accelerating or going up hill. Never got this on Intermediate ride mode, only in experient.  Weird!!

I'm also in Experient mode.  And *think* I've have had the tilt forward issue once, but for me it's been tilt back at 15 degrees or so for 2-4 seconds.  Just enough to make you wonder if you imagined it.

 

[US69]

15 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

Just because the the above note is long, I want to restate it here on the weird tiltback at low speed problem.  At first I thought it was my imagination too, but I have now had it occur 4 separate times (yes I've calibrated, it was the first thing I did when opening the box, then I did it again after the first tiltback occurred). in about 40 miles.

It's occurred for me twice when starting rolling.  Once when cursing at about 10 mph, and once when going up hill at about 5 mph.

Never happens more than a few seconds, or more than about 15 degrees.

What might be is that you get Voltagedrop/high amperage Tiltbacks….when leaning to much in and because of that falling under a certain voltage Limit.....but this should only happen under 40% battery...not on a full one.

 

For the Speed slider Settings:

In your Video you are complaining About the fact that the app does not take your Settings, or?

Again: As Long as you are under 201km(130miles) you can not set/save any value higher than 25mph or 40kmh!!!

Yes, you might be able to "set the slider higher".....you can even "slide" higher than 31mph.....BUT: when Pressing the "confirm" button These Settings then will NOT be saved that to the Wheel.

ONLY when after Pressing the "confirm" button you get a acoustic Feedback from the 16X...ONLY THEN your Speed Settings are saved to Wheel and app!

SO: Please try the Setting: 0,0,24, 25  or 0,0,23,24

This Setting would make first and second Alarm quiet...and only leave the 3rd audible Alarm on 24mph and the tiltback on 25mph

Edited July 31, 2019 by US69

[Mike Paolini]

1 minute ago, US69 said:

What might be is that you get Voltagedrop/high amperage Tiltbacks….when leaning to much in and because of that falling under a certain voltage Limit.....but this should only happen under 40% battery...no on a full one.

 

For the Speed slider Settings:

In your Video you are complaining About the fact that the app does not take your Settings, or?

Again: As Long as you are under 201km(130miles) you can not set/save any value higher than 25mph or 40kmh!!!

Yes, you might be able to "set the slider higher".....you can even "slide" higher than 31mph.....BUT: when Pressing the "confirm" button These Settings then will NOT be saved that to the Wheel.

ONLY when after Pressing the "confirm" button you get a acoustic Feedback from the 16X...ONLY THEN your Speed Settings are saved to Wheel and app!

SO: Please try the Setting: 0,0,24, 25  or 0,0,23,24

This Setting would make first and second Alarm quiet...and only leave the 3rd audible Alarm on 24mph and the tiltback on 25mph

@US69

Possible but unlikely, I'm showing almost full LED's for charge (though it's impossible for me to know if these are accurate until the App voltage gets fixed - anyway last night I was down 2 LED's and it occurred going UP HILL at 5mph).

For the Videos, I have 2 of them.  The first one from the first day - the App would not show me the Speed Limiter Page at all.  I eventually worked around this by logging out and logging back in.

For the second one, the App showed me incorrect Speed Limiter Values of 18 mph and prevented them being changed.  Then after restarting it and reconnecting it showed the correct Speed Limiter Settings which are above 18 mph (I know this because max speed shows I have traveled faster than 18mph - and I'm not getting alarms).

I will try your values, thank you.
 

[wheelr]

7 hours ago, Rywokast said:

100% agreed.. if it were me i would have got rid of the bumps on either side of the handle... i believe they serve the purpose of protecting the trolley in the case of a wreck? at least i cant see them serving any other purpose.. i would have also got rid of the two large side pads that seem to serve no purpose and gone with only the top one and their usual one right above the pedals.. the pedals to me are ugly as sin as well i love the XL pedals.. i would have stuck with a rounded smooth trolley handle not the extremely jagged one which would fit with the overall look if it lacked the humps.. and of course offered it in all matte black.. screw fake carbon fibre.. make stickers to cover the whole body with a bunch of different colours and just have the usual options for colours, black, matte black, and white and one single colour/texture for the whole thing.. also a reflector is no replacement for a rear light and is actually illegal in a lot of places to not have a rear light but instead they chose that spot for one of the many speakers.. i would have made the leds a lot more dense like the nikola and added some to the vent areas as the promo pics showed.. that was really cool looking.. and the last thing, a motor colour to either match the euc colour, or just black.. i dont like silver anywhere unless thats actually the colour scheme.. yes i know i am picky xD

Those seem to be there mostly to offer support for the seat, if you think about it, the 16x looks like a mini version of the 18s. But I'm with you, its design isn't particularly my cup of tea.

[eucinsea]

8 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

- The fake carbon fiber looks very fake. Worse than I expected (and I had low expectations).

That's a shame, I was 100% against the faux-carbon fiber. I hope its not a deal breaker for me when I get it in.

[US69]

14 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

Possible but unlikely, I'm showing almost full LED's for charge (though it's impossible for me to know if these are accurate until the App voltage gets fixed - anyway last night I was down 2 LED's and it occurred going UP HILL at 5mph).

Ok, then watch this behaviour...

Also ...latest on Friday or weekend the new Firmware Version that Kuji received should be made official.

16 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

will try your values, thank you.

Yes, please do that….i know both Videos...

...the first was probably as because for Speed Setting the app connects to online/Server which can take a while or Need re-login

...the second...as i said...when Setting one value to 31mph...the app does NOT save the values..and on all your tries you have done it with 31mph.

 

Most important Point:

Only when you become a audible Beep Feedback from the Wheel after "confirm"...only then the values are saved on the Wheel....

 

For the coming Firmware update i send you some instructions by PM on what to look out for….

[eucinsea]

1 hour ago, magicrobots said:

Sorry for the double post, but I just noticed something. I've been using the EUC Army 3D printed stand which I bought from Speedy Feet UK, and noticed that with the 16x it looked like it was pushing the stand apart.  So I looked at the base of the 16x to get a measurement out of curiosity and noticed that what I think is happening here is that the padding is getting dislodged by the action of seating it on the EUC stand.

Is anybody else seeing this?  Seems minorly problematic but good to keep an eye on. Wouldn't want the padding to prematurely loosen.

Oh that is interesting. I have the same stands but printed myself. I will have to check this out when I get my 16x in September.

[Mike Paolini]

26 minutes ago, US69 said:

Also ...latest on Friday or weekend the new Firmware Version that Kuji received should be made official.

...the first was probably as because for Speed Setting the app connects to online/Server which can take a while or Need re-login

...the second...as i said...when Setting one value to 31mph...the app does NOT save the values..and on all your tries you have done it with 31mph.

 

Most important Point:

Only when you become a audible Beep Feedback from the Wheel after "confirm"...only then the values are saved on the Wheel....

 

For the coming Firmware update i send you some instructions by PM on what to look out for….

I'll look for it and the new version of the App this weekend!

And thanks for the tip on the Audible beep.  That makes sense, though it might be worth them adding some form of feedback in the app letting us know the wheel accepted it - since the apps the interface the user is centered on at the time.

Setting have already been changed, and I'm going to get out and do 10-20 miles today in an effort to close in on that 120 mile unlock so we can stop discussing it as a factor.  

[magicrobots]

Took a pre-lunch EUC break and shot this little clip attempting a hill that I am actually unable to climb on my fatbike, and would never even attempt on my onewheel.

Remember I'm very new to EUC so my technique is probably trash.

I was going to shoot some other angles but it was approaching 90 degrees and was just plain yucky out there so I bailed early - sorry for the limited perspectives!

 

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, Mike Paolini said:

Just because the the above note is long, I want to restate it here on the weird tiltback at low speed problem.  At first I thought it was my imagination too, but I have now had it occur 4 separate times (yes I've calibrated, it was the first thing I did when opening the box, then I did it again after the first tiltback occurred). in about 40 miles.

It's occurred for me twice when starting rolling.  Once when cursing at about 10 mph, and once when going up hill at about 5 mph.

Never happens more than a few seconds, or more than about 15 degrees.

I’ve felt it as well, but thought it was a quirk of the larger pedals?

It feels really odd going downhill, as if I’m being tilted back. It might be a big wheel thing though.

[Jon Stern]

4 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I’ve felt it as well, but thought it was a quirk of the larger pedals?

It feels really odd going downhill, as if I’m being tilted back. It might be a big wheel thing though.

As I mentioned previously, I had tilt back and tilt forward at very low speeds with a decent battery charge (>50%). That was before I tried calibrating. I've not retested after doing that yet.

[CampDylan]

12 hours ago, Unventor said:

solve this by doing a balance calibration

Can you please explain how to do this to a noob?  I’m waiting on mine, ship speed, and it will be my first wheel ever.  I’m compiling  “how-to” notes before mine arrives, thanks!

Edited July 31, 2019 by CampDylan

[chrisjunlee]

46 minutes ago, magicrobots said:

Took a pre-lunch EUC break and shot this little clip attempting a hill that I am actually unable to climb on my fatbike, and would never even attempt on my onewheel.

Remember I'm very new to EUC so my technique is probably trash.

I was going to shoot some other angles but it was approaching 90 degrees and was just plain yucky out there so I bailed early - sorry for the limited perspectives!

 

I love it, you're having a blast as well!

[BleepBloopBlop]

Well here are my speed settings and I've ridden it up to 46kph with my phone out watching the app. I'll see if I can push it to 50 and do a screen capture today. I'm at about 70 kilometers so far on the wheel but I've had these speed settings since I setup the wheel out of the box. 

Edited July 31, 2019 by BleepBloopBlop

[Mike Paolini]

Well now that we are aware that there are others, we can try to pin point it a bit.   For myself, it's occurred 4 times I count in about 40 miles, and it's unclear that they are all the same cause as opposed to some of them being legitimate.    But I can certainly say last night riding up hill slowly (I was testing the headlight), convinced me that it isn't in my head and probably isn't legitimate (I've ridden up that same hill much faster - it's not  a power issue, and battery was >75%).

[chrisjunlee]

1 minute ago, CampDylan said:

Can you please explain how to do this to a noob?  I’m waiting on mine, ship speed, and it will be my first wheel ever.  I’m complaining “how-to” notes before mine arrives, thanks!

Make sure wheel is unlocked through the app first.

Calibration steps:

1. Turn on wheel and have it standing upright.
2. Kingsong app: connect to wheel via bluetooth
3. Kingsong app: in the bottom menu, you'll see a "horizontal calibrate" button, press that
4. Wheel will go limp and make 5 beeps. Level it. 
5. After 5 beeps, it'll make a continuous beep - hold the power button to turn it off
6. Power on wheel - it's ready to go!

[mrelwood]

11 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

You had tilting back and forward due to the gyro being out of calibration?

I would have expected just a continuous offset in one direction.

The firmware tries to compensate for pedal dipping during turning, which it uses the info about the sideways tilt for. (Likely for other features as well.) If the calibration is bad, or done when the wheel is leaning, it may behave in many strange ways, not just in a static center point being off center. Also a firmware update may change how the gyro data is used, so a proper calibration is in place.

11 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

The gyro calibration procedure is static, so it can't calibrate the gyro gain. Only drift-based offsets.

I’m not sure what you mean, but in addition to the gyro drifting, the calibration is used for setting a personal preference for the forward pedal angle.

9 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't know, unless you are hypersensitive there really should not be any vibrations like what you describe. Certainly nothing different than your other wheels.

I am hypersensitive, and I always cringe when people talk about the MSX ride as being smooth. Compared to the 1st gen 16S the MSX is a tractor. If the 16X is not smooth, I do expect that a firmware update will fix it later on.

2 hours ago, magicrobots said:

Yes - I've had this happen as well, but in my case it's tilt-forward. Dips my toes down it's very unsettling and I've noticed it only when accelerating or going up hill. Never got this on Intermediate ride mode, only in experient.  Weird!!

I think the cause is different, but the behaviour actually sounds a lot like how the MSX soft mode behaves if the tire is skidding ever so slightly on a steep dirt or gravel uphill: The wheel tilts forward as if it was running out of power or losing grip completely. And stays there. It only recovers very slowly. That is the main reason the MSX soft mode is unusable for me for offroading, I really need to know when I’m actually starting to lose the grip.

[magicrobots]

54 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

Well now that we are aware that there are others, we can try to pin point it a bit.   For myself, it's occurred 4 times I count in about 40 miles, and it's unclear that they are all the same cause as opposed to some of them being legitimate.    But I can certainly say last night riding up hill slowly (I was testing the headlight), convinced me that it isn't in my head and probably isn't legitimate (I've ridden up that same hill much faster - it's not  a power issue, and battery was >75%).

Just rode out to grab lunch and got both behaviors, but only at the beginning of the ride. Wonder if it takes a mile or so for the gyro sensors to "warm up" or something.

At the end of a long straight I was crossing the street and when I slowed for the curb cut, it tilted me back far on my heels and stayed there until I was going straight on the sidewalk again.

Then I went down a slight hill onto a dirt path, it dropped my toes for a few moments. 

 super disconcerting