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Jean Dublin

KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

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Isn’t the throttling for safety? Someone correct me if I’m wrong with this scenario(s) below

They set the safety throttling for the reasons like if a 250 pound man cruising at 25 mph floors it to get to 31 mph as fast as possible but if the battery is under 50% power it can’t produce the power necessary to go that fast from 25 mph to 31 mph so the wheel cuts out and the 250 pound man face plants. 

But then the 180 pound man screams that’s not fair so King Song should lower the throttling to let’s say 30% so now the battery will have to be under that for the same scenario to be harmful to the 180 pound man.

But then the 130 pound man screams that’s not fair so King Song should lower the throttling to let’s say 15% so now the battery will have to be under that for the same scenario to be harmful to the 130 pound man.

Meanwhile if the throttling is below 50% the novice 250 pound man has no idea that the moment the battery drops below 50% he’s in danger if he tries to floor it at high-speeds. 

It won’t hurt my feelings one bit if I completely got everything wrong. Let me know.

Edited by Patton250

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10 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

For the few years that I've been around KingSong they been known as the ultra conservative wheel company. They appear to be still operating under that principle.

I can't see how you would construe what I said as equating KingSong engineers to being stupid :o  Management is directing the show here and probably feel that they have the support of their core audience (you?). The motor and electronics have to be at the same caliber (if not better) than Gotway and Gotway has been making 16X class wheels for 2-1/2 years. This is not an engineering problem, it's a management problem.

All I'm saying is that they'll lose business. How can I possibly recommend the 16X to people, over the Nikola, if it's a dumbed down wheel (IMO). Then again, maybe they won't lose any business because their core demographic is OK with ultra-conservative wheels, and all the performance guys don't even bother with KingSong. I don't know.

I'm loving the 16X @ 1.05  I would probably be very frustrated with 1.06  That's what happened with my KS14S too. I hated it until they released an update that didn't throttle at 50-percent battery. We've been down this road with KingSong before. Just hoping they make things right in 1.07

I’ll be honest Marty I really don’t understand the highlighted areas. I’m not sure I get why or what you believe my comments meant. Perhaps “stupid” was the wrong word but what does core audience even mean? At the very least you believe King Song engineers are wrong in their conservative safety measures right? You seem pretty harsh with them on their decision for safety throttling and perhaps justifiably so. I have zero knowledge to argue either way. I said I’d believe you man. :-)


The last two paragraphs I understand. 

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6 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

I’ll be honest Marty I really don’t understand the highlighted areas. I’m not sure I get why or what you believe my comments meant. Perhaps “stupid” was the wrong word but what does core audience even mean? At the very least you believe King Song engineers are wrong in their conservative safety measures right? You seem pretty harsh with them on their decision for safety throttling and perhaps justifiably so. I have zero knowledge to argue either way. I said I’d believe you man. :-)


The last two paragraphs I understand. 

You don't understand that they are an ultra conservative company? Here, Facebook, everywhere, people who are particularly worried about safety (the core audience that I'm talking about) will buy KingSong because KingSong plays the game conservatively. There's really nothing controversial about what I'm saying. It's a fact.

You keep focusing on the engineers. I'm not. I'm focusing on management. The owner of KingSong for the longest time declared that he wouldn't make a super fast wheel. That changed in the last year. I believe management is telling the engineers to play to the lowest common denominator and produce a wheel that is safe for the 250 and 130 pound guy who doesn't know how to ride a wheel. 

Edited by Marty Backe

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12 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You don't understand that they are an ultra conservative company? Here, Facebook, everywhere, people who are particularly worried about safety (the core audience that I'm talking about) will buy KingSong because KingSong plays the game conservatively. There's really nothing controversial about what I'm saying. It's a fact.

You keep focusing on the engineers. I'm not. I'm focusing on management. The owner of KingSong for the longest time declared that he wouldn't make a super fast wheel. That changed in the last year. I believe management is telling the engineers to play to the lowest common denominator and produce a wheel that is safe for the 250 and 130 pound guy who doesn't know how to ride a wheel. 

No I didn’t understand that. I really know nothing about them. I’m sorry. What you wrote makes sense now. Thanks man.

Was my analysis on the last page correct?  Is that how they do it? Will the 250 lb man face plant or not if he try’s to accelerate from 25 to 31 mph quickly when the battery is under 50%?  

Edited by Patton250

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9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You don't understand that they are an ultra conservative company? Here, Facebook, everywhere, people who are particularly worried about safety (the core audience that I'm talking about) will buy KingSong because KingSong plays the game conservatively. There's really nothing controversial about what I'm saying. It's a fact.

You keep focusing on the engineers. I'm not. I'm focusing on management. The owner of KingSong for the longest time declared that he wouldn't make a super fast wheel. That changed in the last year. I believe management is telling the engineers to play to the lowest common denominator and produce a wheel that is safe for the 250 and 130 pound guy who doesn't know how to ride a wheel. 

Just protect new riders, experienced riders knew what pedal tilt-back means. It's meaningless to argue this here. @Marty Backe @Patton250
Once new riders have faceplant, they just email to the seller and Kingsong that the wheel is not safe. KS-14S / KS-16S / KS-18L / KS-18XL, the speed limit begin from 50% battery.

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Been a while since I've dropped in this thread. I just hit 1000 miles today on the 16X. And my 💥 Nikola 100V+ is still at 975 miles.

For all the drama around this, I want to stress this point: The 16X is a fine 25 mph wheel. 

I believe Kingsong is having issues with power delivery once the back EMF gets high enough - Gotway seems to be ahead in that regard. IMHO, I believe this is a hardware issue, not a firmware issue. 

I would advise Kingsong to just make the marketing message clearer: this is a *max* 25 mph wheel (ankle dippable). My recommended cruising speed is 22 mph. Anything faster is for straight smooth surfaces only. 

If you want something safer at higher speeds, the answer is Gotway. 

If you already purchased the wheel, well, Kingsong already has your money. Their attitude towards this and slow firmware approach reflects how little incentive they have for us on the forums.

I'll make this simple, here's a flow chart:

tZ2KFqW.jpg

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2 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

My recommended cruising speed is 22 mph. Anything faster is for straight smooth surfaces only. 

I'm beginning to wonder if I can still take you seriously. :rolleyes:

I have a few more kilos on my scales (78kg) than you and with 1.0.6 I have no problems driving 40km/h on uneven roads. Also didn't have the feeling that I was at the limit.

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29 minutes ago, buell47 said:

I'm beginning to wonder if I can still take you seriously. :rolleyes:

I have a few more kilos on my scales (78kg) than you and with 1.0.6 I have no problems driving 40km/h on uneven roads. Also didn't have the feeling that I was at the limit.

Right, it’s not like I have 1000 miles on this wheel. Guess I’m also not one of the faster riders who ride the beeps, nor was I the first to bring up the pedal dip issue for the past 2 months and prove it on video. Oh wait, all of that is indeed me.

If you read my latest wheelog post you would understand why I recommend that 🐌 cruising speed. That is my conservative recommendation.

If you’re experienced, cruise at whatever speed you want. For me personally, that’s 46 kmh on the 16X, and 61 kmh on the Nik+.

Edited by chrisjunlee

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1 hour ago, stephen said:

 ( gotway 80% power is a good way tbh) 

GW ”80%” alarm is based on speed and battery level, not power availability or usage. Every GW model has it’s own preprogrammed speed threshold for the alarm that goes down with battery level.

For example on the 84V MSX it is 55km/h @ 100% battery, and down to 45km/h @ 10% battery. Free air speed with full battery is 78km/h, and 55 is roughly 80% of that, hence the name for the alarm.

I think the 18XL does already have an actual power usage based tiltback or at least a warning, since the wheel knows when to say ”overpower” even before an overlean. A local rider was able to make it play at walking speed on a tricky little incline, so at least it’s not based on speed.

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6 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

GW ”80%” alarm is based on speed and battery level, not power availability or usage. Every GW model has it’s own preprogrammed speed threshold for the alarm that goes down with battery level.

That's what i meant 😁😁 

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13 hours ago, Mrd777 said:

Hey Folks, 

Quick question on the fan.

What temp does it engage? I have yet to hear it.  All my Gotway’s have the fan going on fairly early.

thanks
 

I think the fan kicks in at 50 degrees, or when charging the wheel. there was something in firmware update text about this. But that said it do not make much noise.

It should run at half speed if it is at 40 degrees while charging. or something like that. 

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3 hours ago, chrisjunlee said:

My recommended cruising speed is 22 mph.

or

33 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

If you’re experienced, cruise at whatever speed you want. For me personally, that’s 46 kmh on the 16X,

46 km/h sounds more realistic, but earlier you wrote 22 mph, that's 35km/h.

So what is your recommended speed?

Edited by buell47

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Just now, stephen said:

That's what i meant 😁😁 

Ah, sorry!

I think an actual power based limit works better since it takes the environmental factors, rider weight etc into account. GW wheels can still be accidentally overleaned without the alarm playing.

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12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The KingSong fans are very quiet compared to the large low-quality fans that Gotway

What do you mean, that I am quiet? :w00t2:Sorry I just couldn't help it.

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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

think the 18XL does already have an actual power usage based tiltback or at least a warning, since the wheel knows when to say ”overpower” even before an overlean. A local rider was able to make it play at walking speed on a tricky little incline, so at least it’s not based on speed.

This was already possible with the KS16B - to get the overpower message at inclines :(

.... and overleaning it without a message.

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7 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

KS-18XL, the speed limit begin from 50% battery.

That’s news to me. :huh:

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7 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

If you want to be a volunteer test for less buffer time&speed

I already am a tester for that since I’m on FW 1.05, and I’m fine. :laughbounce2:

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26 minutes ago, Patricio Bohórquez Rodríguez de Medina said:

He did a mistake

If you’re representing a company you shouldn’t do mistakes like that. ;)

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