KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Garrie Lim]

18 minutes ago, prasket said:

Ive never seen a logo of KS16x, do you mean like a photo of one with transparent back? 

If not have a link to what you are talking about? I might be able to create something from what you saw. 

Thanks! What i meant was a image of the 16X wheel on a transparent layer so that i can use it to print t shirts....

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

Joke or not...really. 

Kingsong opened up to the community and working with the riders to gather feedback. They have taking on loads of things that changes the KS16X for better and worse (personally I think the smooth tiltback and higher speed was a bad move, but done is done).

That a company opened up for end-user beta riders is  a huge thing in my eye. That is a trust you should not joke about imho. 

Just hinting this could close down this very fast, might seem harmless enough, but black and white text can be read in many ways, and these are no joking matter from a company like KS. 

I am not impressed by this @Marty Backe. 

You have no sense of humor @Unventor 

[Unventor]

22 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You have no sense of humor @Unventor 

This is the same as joking about having a bomb at the check-in queue in the airport. Might seem funny and harmless... 

But people around might not think the same. The impact can escalate very fast and very negative consequences. 

Like I said we (might) read it as a funny joke, but to KS I am sure they see it different. 

The company I work for would have pulled all beta acces the sec they have seen the post.

The competition in our business is to hard allow this to happen. (it/consumer devices/electronics). 

I don’t think the EUC business is much different. The next new model can mean make or break as seems to be relative small companies.... Still/yet. 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, RoadRunner said:

 

was there a need to wack it with the hammer? Nice clean up job. 

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, stephen said:

5 hours ago, Unventor said:

personally I think the smooth tiltback and higher speed was a bad move

I have give this info to kingsong regarding soft tiltback as in some situations it's hard to notice it

I would like if there were a 2 step tilt back setting, similar to the beeps. So tiltback on could be soft at one speed and hard tiltback at a higher speed. 

[Mike Paolini]

7 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

I had my first wipe out this morning. I was going fast... don't know how fast cause I keep my phone in my backpack. Had to do an emergency slowdown, 2 cyclists rounded a curve, one took it wide and cross center line. Had wobble during braking and wheel landed in brushes. So, after the 20 mile ride, got home and ordered an MTB armored light jacket with rib protection (DS 1630 Flex Force X D3O Top V2). I really like my Demon D3O knee pads. If I can do it again, I would order the longer version which would cover above my ankle bone, which I bang into the pedals all day.  Did another 30 miles in a group ride tonight.  I'm at 121 miles according to KS app

I love my D3o pieces as well, but I might suggest you look at actual Motor Cycle Level 2 armor before you send the money on the Flex Force...


 

5 hours ago, Unventor said:

I hope you are ok. 

I think the reason for people getting wobbles during hard breaking is because people standing more to the front on the pedals plus the shorted pedal arm to the wheels axle point. I makes it harder to micro control and the motors brute torque. 

I went to Stockholm this week and met up with 2 other owners with the KS16X. I found I am standing "much" further back on my pedals than they do. As soon as I move more to the front, it is very fast on acceleration, but at the cost of breaking. Same thing going uphill, I have some skill adjustment to do, but going downhill, it not issue for me what so ever.

Maybe @Mike Sacristan can pitch in on this. He is a good observer and have more time and mileage, played with it more.

I only just got my wheel, and I had a longer adjustment curve...old dogs you know. 

Note: @Mike Sacristan and @Azze80 had a great time in Stockholm and riding with you fellow KS16X owners.

Yea, you nailed it.  I've come to believe ultimately with the wobbles that's really design issue.   The Higher Peddles (.2" higher than an MSX) on a shorter wheel (16" vs 18") result in a change in the balance point and leverage. Combine this with the high torque motor and the result is ride wobbles.  They may eventually be able to tune the motor to reduce them during breaking, but I would not expect that any time soon.

 I feel like it just a characteristic of this wheel riders need to understand.

(And riders should probably practice the emergency stop technique that has you convert the linear movement to circular rotation around a pivot point -  one foot off to pivot with while the other controls the wheel,  borrowed from the martial arts.  Sadly I can't find the video where I learned it to post it here, but it has saved my bacon several times).

[mrelwood]

24 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

one foot off to pivot with while the other controls the wheel

I guess this is different from a regular offset stance?

[Unventor]

34 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I guess this is different from a regular offset stance?

I found the offset stance is very difficult to master as the wheel is so nimble so it moves with slightest weight difference. That is not the same that it cannot be done, I just currently can't use it. That is why I had to relearn to ride as I am using my feet and legs different to shift balance and forince the wheel with angle moments. 

But getting better at it. I would say it takes more skill to ride the KS16X, compared to my KS18L. Or it could call different skills. But that is also why I have a bigger grin on my face every time. 

My KS18L is very similar to my car in feel, Mazda CX-5, relative big and heavy yet easy to drive. 

The KS16X is more like a Mazda MX-5, smaller nimble, very fun to ride, but without traction control and a manual stick. It is not about top speed, it is about fun to drive that this is all about. It demands something but gives somuch back. 

As of braking, it does it good, real good but you need to practice this to do it hard. Right now I know I have to stane at one spot on the pedals. If I don't do that, I get either speed wobbles or break wobbles. Since speed is not what I do, my stance is set to preferences to break, just in case. 

I only have 226km.on it so far. The past 120km I have gotten a lot more sync to the wheel. So I think in time I will be able to do more. 

But an old dog learning new tricks takes more time. 

[Harvey Pooka]

5 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

Dust check after 1300km, i think it’s not to bad.

I was mostly riding trails with lots of dirt.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you tell if the main leakage seems to be the mudflap area? I think someone else mentioned that.

[Planemo]

So am I seeing this right in that the 16X doesn't have any effective sealing from moisture? It appears not, looking at the dust-covered battery/motor connectors?

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

Dust check after 1300km, i think it’s not to bad.

I was mostly riding trails with lots of dirt.

 

Frankly, I think that's horrible. I've never seen anything like that in any of my Gotway wheels with much more distance, and I ride lots of dry dirt trails.

Not saying the 16X isn't a very nice wheel, but it's been a disappointment in many ways too.

[Unventor]

9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Not saying the 16X isn't a very nice wheel, but it's been a disappointment in many ways too.

Maybe, but we are still only on first batch. 

I would not trade off mine. I love it. I might have to dust it off from time to time. 

I guess I have to ask a Harley Davidson owner what that feels like. I guess it one of those Easter egg features. 

But the good part here @Marty Backe with all the reason not to buy it, you are saving some money. Skipping a wheel for once. Only tip I can give you though, whatever you do do not ride one. Look at it but don't ride it. It gets under your skin and you could easily end up loving it. Despite its imperfections it does hold a beauty. 

[Patton250]

17 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Maybe, but we are still only on first batch. 

I would not trade off mine. I love it. I might have to dust it off from time to time. 

I guess I have to ask a Harley Davidson owner what that feels like. I guess it one of those Easter egg features. 

But the good part here @Marty Backe with all the reason not to buy it, you are saving some money. Skipping a wheel for once. Only tip I can give you though, whatever you do do not ride one. Look at it but don't ride it. It gets under your skin and you could easily end up loving it. Despite its imperfections it does hold a beauty. 

It’s by far the best riding wheel I own and I have the 18XL, Nik+ and MSX. For me 2nd place is a distant 2nd. 

[Marty Backe]

15 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Maybe, but we are still only on first batch. 

I would not trade off mine. I love it. I might have to dust it off from time to time. 

I guess I have to ask a Harley Davidson owner what that feels like. I guess it one of those Easter egg features. 

But the good part here @Marty Backe with all the reason not to buy it, you are saving some money. Skipping a wheel for once. Only tip I can give you though, whatever you do do not ride one. Look at it but don't ride it. It gets under your skin and you could easily end up loving it. Despite its imperfections it does hold a beauty. 

You say first batch. Well, the poor sucker that buys the first batch. Guess he just needs to suck it up 

I have enough wheels not to fully fall in love with any single wheel. I understand if you only have a couple you may be overly attached to a particular model, but IMHO, no wheel is worthy of too much unabashed praise.

Sure, I really like the Nikola, but it has plenty of faults. MSX, KS16X, Nikola, KS18XL, etc. All great wheels. At this point in time we're arguing over details. Transport any of these wheels 3-years into the past and they would have been truly awe inspiring. So it's good to keep perspective.

[Unventor]

20 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You say first batch. Well, the poor sucker that buys the first batch. Guess he just needs to suck it up 

I, and I alone chose to accept 1st batch issues (unknown, yet expected there to be some). 

26 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

It’s by far the best riding wheel I own and I have the 18XL, Nik+ and MSX. For me 2nd place is a distant 2nd. 

I am glad you like it too. I can't say I have tested that many wheels. If it is the best wheel... Depends a lot on what you are look for. Speed isn't main goal.

So back to what what @Marty Backe wrote above... 

I think that depends a lot of expectations of the buyer, question is if expectations are reasonable. 

So @Marty Backe since you seem so disappointed with the KS16X, I can't help thinking, if you have ridden one yet, and why all the negativety.

You can have any opinions you like, that is your right. But those that like their investment in the KS16X are entitled to be happy with their wheel. 

Should someone not be happy, hearing why is interesting to know. But someone just barking negativety.... I just can't help thinking why? In the end it matters very little to me.

I like my KS16X, it ask some of the rider, but the joy riding it none can take that away. I do hope people that read this forum, build their own opinion. If you get a chance to ride a KS16X, I can say 10min might not be fair to past judgement. 

I liked it, but it took 200km to get synced with the wheel. You might speed this up by riding some at high psi and then lower it. I started at 30ish psi and lowered it to 25ish psi. 

[Marty Backe]

16 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I, and I alone chose to accept 1st batch issues (unknown, yet expected there to be some). 

I am glad you like it too. I can't say I have tested that many wheels. If it is the best wheel... Depends a lot on what you are look for. Speed isn't main goal.

So back to what what @Marty Backe wrote above... 

I think that depends a lot of expectations of the buyer, question is if expectations are reasonable. 

So @Marty Backe since you seem so disappointed with the KS16X, I can't help thinking, if you have ridden one yet, and why all the negativety.

You can have any opinions you like, that is your right. But those that like their investment in the KS16X are entitled to be happy with their wheel. 

Should someone not be happy, hearing why is interesting to know. But someone just barking negativety.... I just can't help thinking why? In the end it matters very little to me.

I like my KS16X, it ask some of the rider, but the joy riding it none can take that away. I do hope people that read this forum, build their own opinion. If you get a chance to ride a KS16X, I can say 10min might not be fair to past judgement. 

I liked it, but it took 200km to get synced with the wheel. You might speed this up by riding some at high psi and then lower it. I started at 30ish psi and lowered it to 25ish psi. 

There may be language barriers which prevent me from properly expressing myself to you, so I'm just going to stick with what I wrote and not add to it.

I'm glad that you're happy with with your 16X. Enjoy. You don't have tag me on the 16X stuff and I won't tag you on my Nikola comments and we'll both be happy 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

44 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I liked it, but it took 200km to get synced with the wheel. You might speed this up by riding some at high psi and then lower it. I started at 30ish psi and lowered it to 25ish psi. 

Yeah....I'm the winner...already synced after just 125km.  

What you doing so long? 

I started at 35 and ended at 20 psi. It's a perfect pressure for offroad with my weight of 73 naked. 

It's a really nice riding wheel but light years away in quality compared with the Inmotion V8.

I would be really pissed off about the non-existent quality, but it really rides so awesome that even I manage to be happy about it. 

But I hope that at least some software bugs will be fixed and the throttling from 74 Volt will be changed. That's also a bit annoying even if you're not a speed freak.

Maybe the third batch comes at least with a extra vacuum cleaner and quick-release fasteners on the outer housing, or at least a big bag with spare screws?How can you still use Phillips screws today? At the next cleaning they fly out and are replaced by Torx screws.

Should the sandbox be revised sometime and a dust and splash water protected unicycle case come out, I would buy it and rebuild everything.

Edited September 15, 2019 by buell47

[Unventor]

7 hours ago, Garrie Lim said:

Thanks! What i meant was a image of the 16X wheel on a transparent layer so that i can use it to print t shirts....

From KS website you can get pictures with white background. That should make it easier to make a cutout to a transparent layer in photo editing. 

[Unventor]

4 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Yeah....I'm the winner...already synced after just 125km.  

Good job👍

4 minutes ago, buell47 said:

What you doing so long? 

Well I am special.... or I just take longer to adjust. My bad knee isn't help out either. 

7 minutes ago, buell47 said:

I started at 35 and ended at 20 psi. It's a perfect pressure for offroad with my weight of 73 naked. 

My weight is 81kg typical plus 7-8kg cloth/gear/backpack. 25 suits me fine. I might be able to go a bit lower but 25 psi works for me both on asphalt and off road. 

10 minutes ago, buell47 said:

I would be really pissed off about the non-existent quality, but it really rides so awesome that even I manage to be happy about it. 

I would not go that far, but I hope KS post a fix to improve the whhels water/dust resistances. 

[Mike Sacristan]

21 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 I’m thinking the new tire will make all the difference in the world. I actually adjusted the one on it now because it was so out of balance and it helped a little. I still don’t feel safe on it past 26 mph or so. To me the 16X is remarkably more stable and smoother. 

Crazy I have no problem hitting 35 mph on the Nikola+ and I don't even own one.

[Patton250]

12 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Crazy I have no problem hitting 35 mph on the Nikola+ and I don't even own one.

 Know that I am fully counting on the CX tire I ordered to completely change how I feel about the Nikola Plus.  I believe it will fix the problem if not I will be selling it.  It’s very smooth up to 25 mph now. Of course the tire was out of balance just like my previous Nikola.  But the good people here showed me how to make it better by deflating it and reseating it.  It fixed about 80% of the bounce just like it did with my last one.  Now I just need to eliminate the wobbles.   I love how some just chime in saying it’s me the rider that’s the problem and that’s fine but I have no problem going that fast on all my other wheels including my previous Nikola. Well that went 31mph and I went that fast on it all the time.  But even with that Nikola it was nowhere near as stable as the 16X IMHO.  So I’m hoping the reason is the tire. I really like the CX. I also really like the Nik+.  It’s a beautiful looking wheel and very comfortable.  So probably next Sunday I will attempt to change the tire. Pray for me as I have no idea what I’m doing. LOL 

[Patton250]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

There may be language barriers which prevent me from properly expressing myself to you, so I'm just going to stick with what I wrote and not add to it.

I'm glad that you're happy with with your 16X. Enjoy. You don't have tag me on the 16X stuff and I won't tag you on my Nikola comments and we'll both be happy 

No man no language barrier.  You’ve been pretty hard on the 16X.  That’s OK though because it probably deserves some criticism. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

No man no language barrier.  You’ve been pretty hard on the 16X.  That’s OK though because it probably deserves some criticism. 

I obviously don't own a 16X. My being hard on the 16X is purely based on what people have been expressing here and elsewhere. I believe I've said zero about rideability. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm echoing objectively stated criticisms:

• Poor shell seals from the environment
• Wheel oscillations issues (where the wheel looks like it's on top of a Saturn V rocket to the moon)
• Firmware changes that alter the performance of the wheel post-purchase
• Non-optimal tire choice (this may be more subjective, but it seems very common)
• Crappy shell padding
• An app that provides meaningless battery levels
• I think there's a few more items, but they aren't coming to me right now.

If someone thinks this is unfairly hard, then they're a fanboy. Sorry 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Marty Backe

[KAY GEE]

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Crazy I have no problem hitting 35 mph on the Nikola+ and I don't even own one.

I commented on this already, there is a rider from Seattle, Chris I think is his name who has hit 42 mph on his, and he goes past 30mph most of the time. 

[KAY GEE]

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I obviously don't own a 16X. My being hard on the 16X is purely based on what people have been expressing here and elsewhere. I believe I've said zero about rideability. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm echoing objectively stated criticisms:

• Poor shell seals from the environment
• Wheel oscillations issues (where the wheel looks like it's on top of a Saturn V rocket to the moon)
• Firmware changes that alter the performance of the wheel post-purchase
• Non-optimal tire choice (this may be more subjective, but it seems very common)
• Crappy shell padding
• An app that provides meaningless battery levels
• I think there's a few more items, but they aren't coming to me right now.

If someone thinks this is unfairly hard, then they're a fanboy. Sorry 

King song fan boys would not be pleased with you Uncle Marty, King song is the benchmark for build and quality