KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[chrisjunlee]

1 hour ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Careful out there. Not saying it's the new firmware but the wheel cutout completely after hitting the top speed beeps/tiltback tonight. I am 750 miles deep on the 16x and never had cutout issues until today and I was riding on smooth flat ground. Gear up! 

OMFG. It was just yesterday night we were discussing safety gear!

Since you do t-shirt and jeans, you must be scraped up pretty bad ;_; 

Are you going to be ok?

Edit: how tf are you even typing O_O

Edited August 21, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[stephen]

1 hour ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Careful out there. Not saying it's the new firmware but the wheel cutout completely after hitting the top speed beeps/tiltback tonight. I am 750 miles deep on the 16x and never had cutout issues until today and I was riding on smooth flat ground. Gear up! 

 

Firmware 1.5

Rider weight: 190lbs

How's the rest of your body ,, you say you was riding the tilt so must of been going nearly 50kph ,, you ok?

[kangzy]

1 hour ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Careful out there. Not saying it's the new firmware but the wheel cutout completely after hitting the top speed beeps/tiltback tonight. I am 750 miles deep on the 16x and never had cutout issues until today and I was riding on smooth flat ground. Gear up! 

 

Firmware 1.5

Rider weight: 190lbs

Damn dude! Really hope you are ok..

Do you know how fast was you going? And how much battery did you have left? Also would be interesting to hear your weight.

Wishing you a speedy recovery bud

[BleepBloopBlop]

Im good! Rode it home 10 miles after the crash. Might work from home tomorrow but I'm getting right back in the 16X. I had just hit tilt and leanback so about 50-52km/hr

 

Injuries are hands and forearms plus knees. Mostly shallow abrasions that will heal up quickly. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by BleepBloopBlop

[chrisjunlee]

2 minutes ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Im good! Rode it home 10 miles after the crash. Might work from home tomorrow but I'm getting right back in the 16X. 

Wow. Cutting out at 31 mph - I would not have been able to roll that off.

More gear from now on?

[Micheal Shen]

54 minutes ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Careful out there. Not saying it's the new firmware but the wheel cutout completely after hitting the top speed beeps/tiltback tonight. I am 750 miles deep on the 16x and never had cutout issues until today and I was riding on smooth flat ground. Gear up! 

Brother, better to wear protection gear in night riding if you want to hit the top speed and always hit tilt back speed.

Cutout=power off, so after you fall down, the wheel is ON or OFF.

Motor losing power. the wheel is ON, but motor goes wrong

[chrisjunlee]

1 minute ago, Micheal Shen said:

Cutout=power off, so after you fall down, the wheel is ON or OFF.

Motor losing power. the wheel is ON, but motor goes wrong

I don't understand this, elaborate please?

[stephen]

7 minutes ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Im good! Rode it home 10 miles after the crash. Might work from home tomorrow but I'm getting right back in the 16X. I had just hit tilt and leanback so about 50-52km/hr

I thought it would of had some power left over tbh not just cut out, i thought kingsong just limited 50kph as a saftey feature but the saftey feature didn't seem to work

[chrisjunlee]

3 minutes ago, stephen said:

I thought it would of had some power left over tbh not just cut out, i thought kingsong just limited 50kph as a saftey feature but the saftey feature didn't seem to work

I wonder if it was a cell balancing issue?

[wheelr]

2 hours ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Careful out there. Not saying it's the new firmware but the wheel cutout completely after hitting the top speed beeps/tiltback tonight. I am 750 miles deep on the 16x and never had cutout issues until today and I was riding on smooth flat ground. Gear up! 

 

Firmware 1.5

Rider weight: 190lbs

Damn, hope you're better now. Gearing up is a good idea, but so is giving yourself a bit of a buffer from max power.

Edited August 21, 2019 by wheelr

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Please guys, you can also use quote without the photo. 

I'm having breakfast and can't see the hand anymore. 

 

[wheelr]

39 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I don't understand this, elaborate please?

I believe that was meant as a question.

[Micheal Shen]

33 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

I don't understand this, elaborate please?

Cutout, which mean the controller is shut down at that moment.
Motor losing power, which mean the controller is running well, but motor is not spinning to go ahead.

This is totally different. 

Actually, i felt down in last Tuesday's night(from 21:45 to 00:15) . i was riding KS-18XL, and our engineers were riding KS-16X. They accelerated fast than me, and all hit 50km/h.

Before i felt down around 00:05 , the battery led one or two were on, and i hit 35km/h, the wheel pedal tilt back and just went over a manhole cover(I past this manhole cover for thousands time in daytime and night time) near our company. Just the time, the pedal tilting back and the motor going over the manhole happen simultaneously, bacause of the inertia, i felt.

And our engineer commemorated my first falling down and teard at two trouser legs, ha ha ha

[Micheal Shen]

55 minutes ago, stephen said:

I thought it would of had some power left over tbh not just cut out, i thought kingsong just limited 50kph as a saftey feature but the saftey feature didn't seem to work

No, once the wheel speed is reaching 50km/h(judgement range is 49.5km/h to 50.5km/h), the pedal will tilt back. So when tilt back, you need to watch over the road surface, not go over any hole or bump.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

1 hour ago, Micheal Shen said:

No, once the wheel speed is reaching 50km/h(judgement range is 49.5km/h to 50.5km/h), the pedal will tilt back. So when tilt back, you need to watch over the road surface, not go over any hole or bump.

Since I have only been driving since April 2019 and have only little knowledge, I would like to understand this correctly.

Does this mean that the 16X at 50km/h can't get any faster to regain balance when it comes to an overlean through a pothole or a bump?
So if I understand it correctly, where is the safety buffer of what Kingsong is talking about?
The 16X should be able to easily reach 60 km/h or more to restore balance, right?
Just switching off at 50km/h is the stupidest and most dangerous thing you can do, right?

A speed limit of 50 KM/h followed by a tilt back is understandable, but not by a cut-off at approx. 52 km/h.

Recently I only had one experience with my Inmotion V8, when I came out of a sharp curve and have full accelerated to the 30 km/h warning tone and tilt back (WheelLog setting is 35km/h Limit) as I was driving over a bump at that very moment. This brought my body a little too far forward and the V8 tried to compensate this by further acceleration, while in slow motion the V8 tilted forward until I fell forward. My topspeed is 32km/h with little tilt back, but the moment I crashed was definitely several km/h faster. Would almost say 36-38 km/h.

I'm also pretty sure that if the V8 had had enough power, it would have gone differently without testing my protectors and helmet. 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by buell47

[US69]

1 hour ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

Im good! Rode it home 10 miles after the crash. Might work from home tomorrow but I'm getting right back in the 16X. I had just hit tilt and leanback so about 50-52km/hr

 

Injuries are hands and forearms plus knees. Mostly shallow abrasions that will heal up quickly. 

Sorry to hear about your fall.

Can you enlighten us how the battery was?

and also, if the wheel was still powered on after the fall, or if it was powered OFF.

 

this is a very important information, as it can say if it was a firmware reset hardware fault.

also, please don’t get me wrong....when hitting/reaching the tiltback at 50kmh....do not “ride it”...as this can higher the amp draw. 

 

Hope you get well soon!!!

 

[mrelwood]

16 hours ago, Mike Paolini said:

@mrelwood  Are you suggesting the tire gets lonely?   Because for the life of me I can not figure out how riding on tire is different than riding on 2 tires *to the tire design*.

Damn right she gets lonely! The evolution of species... and so forth.

I’ll try to elaborate on this posting you quoted:

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The riding dynamics and requirements for a specific behaviour are that much different.

For an EUC, the tread pattern alone is a key variable in determining how easy the wheel is to turn, separately at slow and fast speeds. It also affects the comfort, and feel and stability when accelerating and braking. And so forth. I’m confident that riding an EUC is much more sensitive to these changes, since turning happens only by tilting and twisting the single wheel while standing on it, compared to turning the handlebar (and leaning) on a bike where the resistance to turning at slow speeds for example doesn’t matter nearly as much, as one can just turn the handlebar harder.

The 16X tire discussion stays being very active, and the ones who have changed the tire have said that it becomes a different wheel altogether. Most say that the gyro effect is removed completely, despite the tire is the same 16x3.0” in size. Which was actually a bit of a surprise to me.

I have tried several 16x2.5” tires on my 16S, and the difference just the tread pattern can make to many aspects of riding is very large. I did use a few different kinds of tires for mountain biking back when, and I don’t remember noticing any other differences than just the amount of grip.

Point being: An EUC is just that much more sensitive to the differences, that nobody else but an actual rider is able to determine wether a tire is even suitable for an EUC. I don’t think the Chinese factories selling kids’ bicycle tires for a few dollars each (or the cheap bicycle manufacturers either) do much test riding on new tread patterns. They just get what’s available for cheap, and may swap for the next batch. Yet for an EUC the testing it is crucial, and a tire swap for the next batch means that the userbase has been largely dissatisfied with the first one.

 

5 hours ago, Hibiki Mr.H said:

The tire pattern in this photo looks like CYT H-5167. But i am no expert. Can @mrelwood confirm? thanks

It is indeed the ChaoYang H-5167! What a treat! Suddenly I want the 16X as well! 

[pchiu]

15 km today with 1.05 and works like a charm (avg speed 38 km/h with peak at 45km/h)

[Micheal Shen]

22 minutes ago, buell47 said:

Since I have only been driving since April 2019 and have only little knowledge, I would like to understand this correctly.

Does this mean that the 16X at 50km/h can't get any faster to regain balance when it comes to an overlean through a pothole or a bump?
So if I understand it correctly, where is the safety buffer of what Kingsong is talking about?
The 16X should be able to easily reach 60 km/h or more to restore balance, right?
Just switching off at 50km/h is the stupidest and most dangerous thing you can do, right?

A speed limit of 50 KM/h followed by a tilt back is understandable, but not by a cut-off at approx. 52 km/h.

Recently I only had one experience with my Inmotion V8, when I came out of a sharp curve and have full accelerated to the 30 km/h warning tone and tilt back (WheelLog setting is 35km/h Limit) as I was driving over a bump at that very moment. This brought my body a little too far forward and the V8 tried to compensate this by further acceleration, while in slow motion the V8 tilted forward until I fell forward. My topspeed is 32km/h with little tilt back, but the moment I crashed was definitely several km/h faster. Would almost say 36-38 km/h.

 

 

Firstly, cut-off and motor losing power are two issues, while most users think no difference.

Secondly, it's dangerous when hit the max speed and go over hole and bump, no matter you ride any brand's EUC.

Cut-off is controller issue(like controller board is dead or shut down suddenly ), motor losing power is motor issue or motor reaching max power. When motor is reaching max power, the pedal will be soft.

KS-16X using new motor, and it can hit 55km/h without any load. There is enough buffer for riders.

I ride inmotion V10, Gotway Nikola also, when hit the max speed and go over hole and bump, you can't push hard on pedal. Or you lose balance.  This is my riding experience, but i don't know whether other riders have the same feeling.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

15 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

It is indeed the ChaoYang H-5167! What a treat! Suddenly I want the 16X as well! 

I think now we all know that if you ask a Chinese what type of tyre that is exactly, it comes as an exact technical answer, it's black and round. 

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

32 minutes ago, Micheal Shen said:

When motor is reaching max power, the pedal will be soft.

KS-16X using new motor, and it can hit 55km/h without any load. There is enough buffer for riders.

Let's talk about that, because this is what happens to me and my V8 as described. 

If the actual case was not a cut-off, the 16X should accelerate up to 55 km/h to regain balance after a overlean through a bump? 

That means the buffer is 5 km/h?

Is it possible to set the tilt back (I don't mean a alarm) by myself to 45 km/h, so that I have a buffer of 10 km/h? 

55 km/h without load doesn't seem that fast for a 2200W engine, or? Or was the engine wound to more torque than speed? 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by buell47

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Micheal Shen said:

No, once the wheel speed is reaching 50km/h(judgement range is 49.5km/h to 50.5km/h), the pedal will tilt back. So when tilt back, you need to watch over the road surface, not go over any hole or bump.

Thank you for explaining this. And thank you for sharing personal experience too. 

I hope you are okay or at least heal up fast. 

I never though that at time of tiltback would be short time before a wheel can handle pot/man holes if they were small. 

But that you mentioned it, it makes sense. Warning noted. Thank you once again. 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

55 km/h without load doesn't seem that fast for a 2200W engine, or? Or was the engine wound to more torque than speed? 

Speed and torque are different things, but I assume you know this already. 

In the end is comes down to load and torque behaviour of the motor, so what should be possible in perception might be very different. 

To compare, a tesla electric car, have a fast acceleration from standstill to 100 kmh but as you reach top speed the electric motors will struggle more than a gas powered car, that is why most electric cars might have fast or super acceleration from a red light but on freeway it not as powerful anymore, especially compared to a gaspowered super car with almost same acceleration. 

On top of this you need power from electric motor to handle balance. So going top speed means much high risk taking. Even for a KS wheel. 

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

It is indeed the ChaoYang H-5167! What a treat! Suddenly I want the 16X as well! 

Go for it, join us "hot kids" with KS16X 😉

@Marty Backe used "the cool kids" for Nikola club.

Personally I think we should agree to swap names on the owners club. 😁

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

48 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Speed and torque are different things, but I assume you know this already. 

Yes I know, because I have little experience in RC electric motors for my 700 class helicopter and how the windings can change rpm and torque.