KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[chrisjunlee]

2 hours ago, Adam Finch said:

This is a concern for me and I am currently shopping around for an EUC to commute in Seattle. What EUCs are out there with this particular attribute?

MCM5 is perfect for Seattle’s hills - it makes the city feel flat. Downside: you can’t really do under construction roads. Bike lanes are fine.

Ever since picking up the KS16X, I’ve been taking empty roads. I say empty because cars get road rage, and unless you can go 15 above speed limit comfortably, you’re going to be the target of a lot of rage. In other words, I’m effective still constrained to bike lanes for commuting.

In that regards, MCM5 has the edge due to no effort hill climbing. I do a lot of night riding on empty roads, so the 16X makes sense.

IMHO, the only wheel decent at true road commuting, would be a next gen monster with 50mph cruising speed. Current 100V monster cruises at 40mph, so that would constrain you to 25mph streets (to use my 15mph road rage escape rule).

tl;dr besides road conditions, factor in angry drivers. I get honked at and aggressively passed a lot on the road. 2 wtf incidents last night at midnight, like seriously?

[ir_fuel]

34 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

*except for when you actually learn to ride it properly, then this goes away*

That does not reduce the tendency a wheel can have to tramline. It all depends on the surface. Ride it on a very long crack in the road that approx goes where you need to go and it will pull on you.

I ride mine nearly every day to get my lunch and I average the same speed as you (vmax 28mph on those trips). I have zero issues with the wheel, but I don't really feel an advantage of having a 4.1 wide tyre, compared to a 3" wide one. I like the look though.

 

33 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said:

MCM5 is perfect for Seattle’s hills - it makes the city feel flat. Downside: you can’t really do under construction roads. Bike lanes are fine.

Ever since picking up the KS16X, I’ve been taking empty roads. I say empty because cars get road rage, and unless you can go 15 above speed limit comfortably, you’re going to be the target of a lot of rage. In other words, I’m effective still constrained to bike lanes for commuting.

In that regards, MCM5 has the edge due to no effort hill climbing. I do a lot of night riding on empty roads, so the 16X makes sense.

IMHO, the only wheel decent at true road commuting, would be a next gen monster with 50mph cruising speed. Current 100V monster cruises at 40mph, so that would constrain you to 25mph streets (to use my 15mph road rage escape rule).

tl;dr besides road conditions, factor in angry drivers. I get honked at and aggressively passed a lot on the road. 2 wtf incidents last night at midnight, like seriously?

wow. Never encountered that kind of behaviour where I live. That sucks.

[CampDylan]

13 hours ago, hsiang@tw said:

I don't know the shipping cost yet and I don't even have paypal account, but I will figure them out.

We can now send money through FaceBook Messenger!  Before I even got to the part of your generous offer I was already thinking we should all pool together and have you send a bulk shipment!

[Mike Sacristan]

4 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

Extra padding can help you, but the problem is your legs hardly touch the euc when hanging behind it when braking hard. When just going fast it feels pretty stable to me.

I'm extremely jealous on your backward riding skills! Damn!

What pressure was the KS16X?

I couldn't grasp it when I rode on asphalt later. I was all over the damn place! The 16X followed almost every irregularity on the rode and really took me for a ride haha. Then I realised that this was the dark side of being free and not touching the sides. I am totally fine with that and it is exactly what I want... so I ordered a 16X today. I did sell my Onewheel after all. And failed to replace it. One wobbly wheel for another! The Nikola 100V was great but it's too similar to my MSX. I want something that is the opposite of it.

I have to take a better look at my braking technique with the 16X. I had no big trouble breaking but also as a MSX rider I tend to grab the pads and crank the wheel back to slow it down. Big wheel, small guy. So I am pretty sure I squeezed the pads while breaking without thinking about it.

Thanks! I do a lot of practice and playing and I still have so much more to learn. I am trying to learn backward figure eights but I really suck on one side haha. It drains me emotionally. More reason for me to practice. The 16X is going to be an awesome challenge to ride and master and I look forward to it!

PSI on the 16X was 2 PSI higher than my MSX according to my shitty pump/gauge so I am guessing it was at 22~23 and my riding weight was 66kg.
I will definitely try different PSI when I get the wheel. The feel was harder than my MSX but that is no surprise. I would not ride the 16X below 20 PSI.

I thought I was riding my MSX at 20 PSI for 5000km and in the end I was riding at a bit over 30. It's all good. Potato/Tomato. 

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, Mike Sacristan said:

as a MSX rider I tend to grab the pads and crank the wheel back to slow it down. Big wheel, small guy. So I am pretty sure I squeezed the pads while breaking without thinking about it

Something I should try too. What I did was brake first and then start pushing with my legs, but you don't have much contact surface at that point as you are already hanging behind the wheel. 

[Mike Sacristan]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

Something I should try too. What I did was brake first and then start pushing with my legs, but you don't have much contact surface at that point as you are already hanging behind the wheel. 

I tend to ride with bent legs. So since I am riding a bit low then I just go a bit lower, sit my ass back onto an invisible chair and keep my upper body straight. I had zero problem doing it on the 16X and it felt very natural. The rest did not though. I am in for a battle when it arrives.

I sometimes do it the other way where I let the wheel pass in front of me and do a leg extension to almost straight legs. But that is the slower and wobblier version for me still.

3:43 into the clip on my MSX the invisible chair way.

 

[ir_fuel]

45 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I sometimes do it the other way where I let the wheel pass in front of me and do a leg extension to almost straight legs. But that is the slower and wobblier version for me still

That only works on "wobble wheels"  if you lock your knees. 

[Mike Paolini]

@mrelwood  Thoughtful replies, certainly moves us closer to agreement, but not all the way there.  :-)   For example

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

obody but us end users have been thoroughly testing tires on an EUC, which is a very unique environment for any tire. I believe one crucial part being that in addition to the tire itself, an EUC has no suspension other than the rider’s knees.

I don't think of EUC's  as a unique environment for the tire.  The tire is still doing what it is designed to do, mounted properly on a rim, rotating on an axis, supporting (hopefully) the correct amount of weight, on the correct road surfaces at the correct temperatures, at the correct (hopefully) tire pressure, while rotating in the correct direction.     From a design point of view, there is practically no difference between being mounted on an EUC and mounted on a Moped to the tire itself.  The moped would lean just the same as an EUC in the turns and so on.  Just saying.

Never the less, very thoughtful and respectful replies - many of which are on point, and some of which like the above I feel not so much. 

[Mike Sacristan]

21 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

That only works on "wobble wheels"  if you lock your knees. 

I just thought of another thing. Where do you have your feet?
I have a bit of my heel hanging over the back. The rest hanging over the front. And I ride a bit duck footed so my feet point maybe 10 degrees outward.
I do the same on my MSX but I find that my default stance when mounting the 16X is with my feet a bit further out to the sides of the pedals.

Anyway the reason I no longer have my heels lined up with the rear of the pedal os because of the acceleration vs braking bias which caused me to wobble on the MSX.
Although it did make accelerating and high speed cruising more effortless it was not worth the trade off.

[RoadRunner]

Just seen this

 

 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

1 hour ago, RoadRunner said:

Just seen this

 

 

Someone just sent me that too, great video. 

Very interesting what he says about the original tire after having changed to the CST haha. If I end up getting the 16X I will keep the stock tire and just get used to it... 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Jean Dublin

[ir_fuel]

38 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Where do you have your feet?

At the bottom of my legs 

[ir_fuel]

15 minutes ago, Jean Dublin said:

Someone just them me that too, great video. 

Very interesting what he says about the original tire after having changed to the CST haha. If I end up getting the 16X I will keep the stock tire and just get used to it... 

I had indeed zero issues adapting to this wheel, coming from a Z10.

[ir_fuel]

49 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I have a bit of my heel hanging over the back. The rest hanging over the front. And I ride a bit duck footed so my feet point maybe 10 degrees outward.

I played around with different positions and putting them duck stance too. Nothing really improved it for hard braking.

 

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

The Nikola 100V was great but it's too similar to my MSX. I want something that is the opposite of it.

Opposite of great 

Just kidding.

Welcome to the KS16X club. Where the hot kids hang out right @Marty Backe. Nikola was for the cool kids if I don't recall it wrong. 

(I didn't bother to search for it, but Marty knows)...

I wish I could have been there to play and discuss ride feel from your video. Unfortunately I am stuck in an office slaving of my debts while I wait for the KS16X to arrive, then I take a week of holiday to spend time with the new bodypart. 

[ir_fuel]

4 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Opposite of great 

He's going to buy an Airwheel.

[Mike Sacristan]

3 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Opposite of great 

Just kidding.

Welcome to the KS16X club. Where the hot kids hang out right @Marty Backe. Nikola was for the cool kids if I don't recall it wrong. 

(I didn't bother to search for it, but Marty knows)...

I wish I could have been there to play and discuss ride feel from your video. Unfortunately I am stuck in an office slaving of my debts while I wait for the KS16X to arrive, then I take a week of holiday to spend time with the new bodypart. 

Haha always a funny guy.
MSX locked in. Nikola locked in.
I want a wheel where I am not locked in. Whether it is great or not remains to be seen. They will have to iron out the issues first.
I will ride the stock tire to death and I will definitely not change it. That would be like ordering the best meal at a restaurant and putting ketchup on it.
Maybe I will eat those words in a few days though. Lucky I have ketchup in the fridge.

[Gaz Bon]

7 minutes ago, Unventor said:

then I take a week of holiday to spend time with the new bodypart. 

Sweet 

[Gustesta]

[Patton250]

2 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

What? Are you saying the new firmware is out?

[Jon Stern]

8 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

What? Are you saying the new firmware is out?

Not for me it's not (using the iOS app).

[Gustesta]

43 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

What? Are you saying the new firmware is out?

I'm not sure.  I got an update on Satuday.  It lasted more than 20 minutes and I didn't get any confirmation.

Does your firmware version shows that information?

Edited August 20, 2019 by Gustesta

[Hibiki Mr.H]

On 8/20/2019 at 3:37 AM, RoadRunner said:

Just seen this

 

 

Great video !! and great lighting and editing !!

For those of you are still considering between sticking with stock tire and changing tire. I will share my opinion here. It might be personal and subjective, if you don't agree, that's totally fine =)

I currently own 16X, MSX, 14S, 14D and had Z10, 18L, MCM5 650wh, MCM5 800wh, IPS i5, V8

Before talking about 16X, I have to talk about Z10 first.
Z10 is a unique, physical and fun (in its own way) wheel. If you only have one wheel (Z10), or you have zero adjustment needed switching between Z10 and other wheels you have, then you should probably be fine with a Z10. Now, people see the 16X as a baby Z10, with the stock tire the 16X indeed rides similarly to Z10 with a little less gyro effect.

But the thing is, with Z10's 4" tubeless tire, you don't have options. You either love it or hate it. But we do have many options for the 16x3.0 tire on our 16X. I personally prefer relaxing and effortless riding style than very physical and intense riding style on a Z10 like wheel. (kindda like driving a Miata vs driving a Formula 1 on a winding mountain road, which one is quicker and which one is more fun, I will leave you to be the judge)
I didn't expect changing tire would change the wheel dynamics dramatically, but it SURE DID.

If you own and love the Z10 then you probably would love the 16X stock tire. Even if you never ridden a Z10, you might still like the 16X with stock tire for the same reason people like their Z10. For the rest of us, given enough time and mileage, I am sure we can get used to it as well. 

But I am skeptical about this no-name CX321 tire. With the uniqueness of Z10's 4" tubeless tire, I believe Ninebot designed the wheel with the tire dynamics / gyro effect in mind. But I don't believe it's the same for KS this time. Because they put CYT H-5146 tire on pre-production model and then decided to ship out the 1st batch of production models with this no-name CX321 tire. If the gyro effect is a "feature" rather than a side effect from the poor no-name tire, then why not choosing a CYT, CST or Kenda tire with gyro effect. So I don't think they intended to design the 16X to ride like this at the first place. KS also claimed the CST C-1488 (Nikola tire) doesn't fit on the 16X, and that's already proven to be a lie. I understand how people spent so much money and waited so long for the 16X, want to convince themselves buying the 16X is the right decision and the 16X is all good, in fact I am one of them. But now seems like KS has acquired 2000 CYT tires to put on 2nd batch or later wheels. By then, 1st batch owners will have convince themselves to be very lucky to have the special edition no-name gyro effect CX321 tires or will feel like I will feel.........got fxxk over....TWICE.

gosh, didn't mean to be a lengthy post, sorry about that.

TL;DR
I have already ordered 12 sets of CYT 16x3.0 H-5167 tires with inner tubes.
With extra global shipping, you are looking at around 53 USD each set. ($9 for tire, $4 ships to me, $40 ships to outside of Asia)
I will post more info and try to reduce the shipping cost once I got the shipment.
For those you posted earlier and said you are interested and those of you PM'ed me.
I will put you on the list. If anyone change mind at the last minute, that's totally FINE.
I am sure local riders can use some =)

UPDATE:
the people on the list are

1.chrisjunlee (Seattle)
2.Jon Stern (SF Bay Area)
3.Genghis (New Mexico)
4.cyfur (Bay Area)
5.VonWiffen (Sweden / Singapore)
6.Tom D (Oahu, Hawaii)
7.Azze80 (Sweden)
8.CampDylan (Honolulu)
9.Gustesta (Utah)
 

i am gonna keep 1 set spare tire for myself
If I put your name on the list by mistake, please let me know =)
 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Hibiki Mr.H

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

Firmware is released!

To dear all who have KS-16X.Pls update to lastest firmare to V1.05 using APP.

Below is what we change:

1. Less abrupt speed limiting pedal tilt

2. LED lights are now off while charging

3. Speed display in app improved

4. Three different riding modes fixed

5. Unlock top speed (50 kph) after 10 km

6. New System Framework. Reduced CPU usage by optimizing system efficiency

7. Improved Motor Control Algorithms. Improved stability during high speeds, accelerating, braking, and turning. Also, motor runs more quietly.

8. Optimized temperature control. More endurance when climbing hills.

9. Power cycling no longer necessary after horizontal calibration.

 

Firmware upgrade instructions:

1. Lay wheel flat on ground

2. Upgrade firmware using app

3. Place wheel upright and run horizontal calibration before riding

 

But now quickly, I want to hear positive results! 

Edited August 20, 2019 by buell47

[US69]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

Firmware is released!

To dear all who have KS-16X.Pls update to lastest firmare to V1.05 using APP.

Below is what we change:

1. Less abrupt speed limiting pedal tilt

2. LED lights are now off while charging

3. Speed display in app improved

4. Three different riding modes fixed

5. Unlock top speed (50 kph) after 10 km

6. New System Framework. Reduced CPU usage by optimizing system efficiency

7. Improved Motor Control Algorithms. Improved stability during high speeds, accelerating, braking, and turning. Also, motor runs more quietly.

8. Optimized temperature control. More endurance when climbing hills.

9. Power cycling no longer necessary after horizontal calibration.

 

Firmware upgrade instructions:

1. Lay wheel flat on ground

2. Upgrade firmware using app

3. Place wheel upright and run horizontal calibration before riding

 

But now quickly, I want to hear positive results! 

Beware of:

Moving your phone around or putting it in landscape while upgrading.

Also should not go into Sleep mode!

 

UPdate only works when Wheel is put flat on the Ground!!!