KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[Hibiki Mr.H]

36 minutes ago, Jean Dublin said:

I wonder which parts need to be disconnected or removed in order to be able to get to change the tire.
The 16X disassembly video just shows the full disassembly, but I guess part of it isn't needed to change the tire.
If you could document it I'm sure it will be useful to many.
Thanks  

Following steps 1-3 you can do one side first then do the other side later.

1. remove pedals

2. to remove side covers, remove 10 screws on each side.(Each side: 2 under top pad, 4 each under side pads)

3. disconnect hall sensor cable and motor cable (one cable on each side)

4. remove 5 big motor screws on each side

5. lift up the LED strap and over the L shape motor pillar so they don't get in the way when you slide down the motor

6. slide down the motor with tire.

That's it !!

[Gustesta]

3 minutes ago, hsiang@tw said:

Following steps 1-3 you can do one side first then do the other side later.

1. remove pedals

2. to remove side covers, remove 10 screws on each side.(Each side: 2 under top pad, 4 each under side pads)

3. disconnect hall sensor cable and motor cable (one cable on each side)

4. remove 5 big motor screws on each side

5. lift up the LED strap and over the L shape motor pillar so they don't get in the way when you slide down the motor

6. slide down the motor with tire.

That's it !!

@hsiang@tw 

Please, can you confirm if this is the tire:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MD4XR5M/ref=pe_385040_30332260_pe_301860_26203570_n_id

Or can you send us a link?

Thanks!

 

 

[JT Tan]

Could someone give insight into how everyone's removing their side padding when replacing the tire without destroying the padding?  I'm assuming you need to get to the screws under the padding to remove the sides.

[mrelwood]

Wow this thread goes fast! Were away just for a few days. Sorry for this gigantic post...

On 8/16/2019 at 9:36 PM, Mike Paolini said:

@mrelwood

Sounds like you are unfamiliar with PIO's.

This is difficult to me to write in English, so my terminology will surely fail in delivering my point perfectly. Please bear with me.

There are two parts required for any sustained vibration to take place: A launching agent, and the entity that is prone to vibrate at a given frequency. (My guess is this is obvious to you, not being condescending here.) PIOs would fall under the latter group.

How the blame on a generic EUC wobble should be shared between these two main elements, I don’t think has been shown or determined. Some say it is 100% the rider, but to me it doesn’t sound likely that the rider would be both the launching agent and the target. Especially when changing external parameters (tire, tire balancing, tire pressure, or switching the EUC) may even completely remove the wobbles. So something else is required as well.

In my personal experience, the wobbles that arise when braking hard from 30+km/h can be strongly affected by:

- The tire, especially the variances or inconsistencies between the individual units

- Tire install precision and balance, so that it runs straight

- Tire pressure

- Rider fatigue level

- Riding downhill or not.

I don’t know what is the most important reason for the wobbles to arise. But I have succesfully eliminated wobble issues by changing just any single one of the above parameters. It is of course possible that the change has only dampened the resonance, but that the underlying agent still exists.

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Meaning if you it was truly the tire, you'd expect consistent behavior from it.   Unbalanced tires ALWAYS wobble, they do not SOMETIMES wobble one out of ten miles for example.

Not quite. If a car tire is badly balanced, it may be felt at all speeds, but it will only wobble badly (ie resonate/vibrate) at a certain speed.

If the EUC wobble is 100% because of the rider, shouldn’t the rider then cause the wobble all the time as well? No, there are multiple aspects that affect the vibration. The launching agent may well be a bump in the tire, but for it to increase into a wobble, certain conditions will have to be met. Braking in general may be one of them, because it is a less stable situation than riding at a steady speed, or even accelerating. Braking hard also requires effort from one’s leg muscles, so a PIO is more likely to increase a slight inconsistency to a proper wobble.

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Here's where I look at you like you are a "Flat Earther" telling me that the Earth being round has been debunked - because you are arguing with science and physics in general.

When the tire pressure ranges were discussed a year or two ago, people took part who had worked daily with tires for cars and other vehicles for a long time. Based on the experience and knowledge they had on the tire industry and on the tires themselves, I tend to be open to believe what they say. I have extemely little knowledge of my own on the tire industry in general, just my limited experiences with replacing the tires on my two EUCs. So I did not only express my opinion, but that of people I consider professionals on the matter.

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Tires are designed to support specific weights at up to a maximum speed - to withstand the stresses these things cause while also preserving proper contact with the road surface to enable proper control of the vehicle.

Absolutely. The first parameter that is out of place already is the vehicle. Nobody but us end users have been thoroughly testing tires on an EUC, which is a very unique environment for any tire. I believe one crucial part being that in addition to the tire itself, an EUC has no suspension other than the rider’s knees.

Quote

according the manufacture at moped speeds.

What exactly is the maximum speed rating for the CX321 tire? I haven’t seen it being mentioned.

Quote

Under inflated tires effect...

 

Quote

you are arguing with the science of how things work.

Absolutely not! Come on, I love physics and other sciences as well! I’d never argue with them. You wrote very clearly and correctly how an underinflated tire works. No-one can sensibly argue with that. My point is that:

Quote

I have a hard time thinking of any less safe thing a rider could tinker with, than taking the tire out of it's design parameters.

Installing just a single tire in an EUC is already taking any tire out of it’s designed parameters.

The core functions of a pneumatic tire is to provide grip and suspension. In my example of the knobblies on the Airwheel A3, a motorcycle tire on a slow self-balancing vehicle does not provide the intended amount of suspension if one follows the pressure guidelines. This makes for a dangerous ride, lacking seriously in rider control. I’ve tried.

Following this forum and the hobby actively for about 2 and a half years, I have yet to know about a single outer tire failure. And many people are running on over- and especially underinflated tires. So statistically it seems extremely improbable to have any issues running the tire under or even over the pressure guidelines, if the ride quality calls for it. After all, that’s the reason we do it. I don’t think that an EUC tire that feels good to the rider can be catastrophically underinflated.

 

 

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That is also why I think as customers we should as demand tyres developd for our EUC ridestyle rather than taking a bike wheel design.

That would be great! Not gonna happen though, too few users.

 

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Which one do you think it's going to be the best tire without gyro effect. So far, I managed to collect these tires, but I haven't replace the shitty stock tire yet:

1. (CHENG SHIN) CST C-1488 16x3.0

2. (CHAOYANG) CYT H-5167 16x3.0

3. (CHAOYANG) CYT H-5102 16x3.0

H-5102 grip is so bad when wet, so I’d steer away. Regarding the gyro effect, I can only make a really wild guess. But a few people have replaced the tires already, best to read about their experiences.

 

Quote

Same with wheel balance, not sure if everyone here thinks their wheels are balanced, none of them are, and if you run any of them up to full speed the whole thing vibrates quite a bit.

Exactly. The effect is often lessened while riding, so one rarely notices the imbalance (unless we’d count wobbles for being a possible sign). But a free air test tells a lot.

 

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the wheel does not vibrate, nor does it wobble at all. It is absolutely straight, smooth, and stable. It only wobbles when hard braking at high speed; that's it.

Quite a contradiction there...  Or do you mean that it doesn’t vibrate at all when lifting the wheel up and letting the tire spin to the max speed? If that’s the case, I find it very interesting.

 

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None of the riders experienced oscillation or wobbling.

Data point stored.

 

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Edit: I think I know what's going on. The usb bluetooth fix is probably interfering with the bluetooth OTA firmware update 🤦.

I can see how you’d jump to that conclusion, but I think it’s more likely that they are having the same kinds of server offline issues that they’ve been having intermittently for at least two years now.

 

21 hours ago, Azze80 said:

when riding, I can feel a very very small bump on the right side of the tire

If you feel it during riding at a steady speed, it certainly is a probably suspect of causing wobbles under some situations. Massaging the inner tube and carefully reseating the tire should indeed help a lot.

 

12 hours ago, hsiang@tw said:

I just want to report back here, that I put the CYT 16x3.0 H-5167 on KS16X today and I LOVE IT.

Are you absolutely sure that it’s the 5167 and not 5146?? Please take a photo for us! I haven’t seen that tire as a 16” version since 2017. Every auction with the photo of a 5167 would have or did ship a 5146 (or 5102).

 

[Gustesta]

I decided to make a video showing that the crappy factory tire is not that crappy!

You may see how carving is possible, no wobbling, speed and, in the end, a override wobble techinque.  

At the first sign you feel the wobble, just stand up and don't bend your knees.  That will equally weight your feet.

If you pay close attention to the video, every time my wheel starts to wobble (at the first sign) I just stand up and it instantly stops. 

Insta360 One X GPS sucks.  Speed was faster at some moments.

You may hear how SILENT this wheel is!

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Gustesta

[eddiemoy]

13 hours ago, hsiang@tw said:

I just want to report back here, that I put the CYT 16x3.0 H-5167 on KS16X today and I LOVE IT.

It completely removed the gyro effect of the wheel and no more wobbles. 

and man....this wheel became soooo nimble, like MCM5 on 2.125" tire.

btw, I commute with KS14S and own a MSX, the 16X now feels like 15" nimbleness. So far it feels pretty stable too.

I settled with 30~35 PSI, I usually go 40 PSI on 18 inch wheels but with this tire, it's too squirrelly at 40 PSI.

Some people might love this tire and some people might not. I simply love the nimbleness of smaller wheels in general (and absolutely dislike the gyro effect on Z10)

AND I LOVE THIS TIRE.

 

If this is anything like the preproduction tire, my sweet spot was 20psi.  Thanks for the info, I’ll go buy one now and swap out the CST tire.  

[Hibiki Mr.H]

@Gustesta@Patton250@Azze80@mrelwood

i bought the CYT 16x3.0 H-5167 from Taobao since I live in Taiwan. But i think you can also buy it on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/ChaoYang-Electric-Unicycle-Scooter-Bicycle/dp/B07MD4XR5M

this link should be the one @eddiemoywas referring to. But I don't think the 14" one fits 16x3.0 16X

It's more like the seller copied and pasted the description from the 14x2.125, because they even use the same image.

https://www.amazon.com/ChaoYang-14-2-50-Electric-Unicycle-Scooter/dp/B07MNFN77K

H-5167 pattern looks like this

 

I attached 2 images of the tire I installed.

[Gustesta]

1 minute ago, hsiang@tw said:

@Gustesta@Patton250@Azze80@mrelwood

i bought the CYT 16x3.0 H-5167 from Taobao since I live in Taiwan. But i think you can also buy it on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/ChaoYang-Electric-Unicycle-Scooter-Bicycle/dp/B07MD4XR5M

this link should be the one @eddiemoywas referring to. But I don't think the 14" one fits 16x3.0 16X

It's more like the seller copied and pasted the description from the 14x2.125, because they even use the same image.

https://www.amazon.com/ChaoYang-14-2-50-Electric-Unicycle-Scooter/dp/B07MNFN77K

H-5167 pattern looks like this

 

I attached 2 images of the tire I installed.

Thanks!

[mrelwood]

 

45 minutes ago, Gustesta said:

You may see how carving is possible, no wobbling, speed and, in the end, a override wobble techinque.

To me ”no wobbling” would mean that a technique to stop wobbling was not required. Anyway, the straight legs technique only works on smooth surfaces. I don’t do those very much.

For killing a braking wobble when the road is not smooth (or if there is no road), carve back and forth as you brake. 

 

@hsiang@tw thanks! I have heard nothing but praise on the 5167! I wish I’ll get to ride it in any size some day.

I have bought a 5167 in size 16x2.5” twice, both times receiving a different pattern. After that I always confirmed with the seller first, and the response was always that they can’t provide that tire anymore, and would just ship a different one. Best not to trust the pictures, since for the Chinese the tread pattern doesn’t seem to matter much.

[Hibiki Mr.H]

5 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

 

To me ”no wobbling” would mean that a technique to stop wobbling was not required. Anyway, the straight legs technique only works on smooth surfaces. I don’t do those very much.

For killing a braking wobble when the road is not smooth (or if there is no road), carve back and forth as you brake. 

 

@hsiang@tw thanks! I have heard nothing but praise on the 5167! I wish I’ll get to ride it in any size some day.

I have bought a 5167 in size 16x2.5” twice, both times receiving a different pattern. After that I always confirmed with the seller first, and the response was always that they can’t provide that tire anymore, and would just ship a different one. Best not to trust the pictures, since for the Chinese the tread pattern doesn’t seem to matter much.

you are absolutely right about the Chinese seller. the below 2 tables are on the Taobao seller's page.

for those of you don't read Chinese. 1st table is regular/enhanced/durable tire and 2nd table is puncture proof tire.

as you can see 16x3.0 may come with any of H-5102 5146 5167 5168. So i was like... f**k it, i get one type of each.

So I received the regular/enhanced/durable H-5102 and puncture proof H-5167.

 

So I asked the seller again if they ship different pattern randomly or what. The seller told me that it depends on the batch they have. So if you buy it now it comes with H-5167, you buy the same spec few months later, it might come with different pattern. (ps. just checked with seller, this batch of enhanced tire is H-5102 only, but the puncture proof one is H-5167)

ah...fxxk it, I decide to do you guys a favor. I will buy like 10 or more H-5167 16x3.0 puncture proof tires from my taobao seller and once I receive and confirm then i will ship to you guys all over the world.

BECAUSE, it costs only 50 RMB(like 7 dollars) on Taobao and it costs 50 USD on Amazon

i am sure it will still be wayyyy cheaper plus the global shipping. and you guys will be sure to receive the H-5167.

I don't know the shipping cost yet and I don't even have paypal account, but I will figure them out.

@Gustesta@Patton250@mrelwood@eddiemoy

let me know if you guys are interested.

 

[Jon Stern]

1 hour ago, hsiang@tw said:

@Gustesta@Patton250@Azze80@mrelwood

i bought the CYT 16x3.0 H-5167 from Taobao since I live in Taiwan. But i think you can also buy it on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/ChaoYang-Electric-Unicycle-Scooter-Bicycle/dp/B07MD4XR5M

this link should be the one @eddiemoywas referring to.

This link is correct according to the seller. I just posted a question on Amazon and got an immediate response saying they used the 14x2.125 photo as they didn't have one for the 16x3.0.

I've pointed out that the size quoted in the features and description is wrong too.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Jon Stern

[chrisjunlee]

45 minutes ago, hsiang@tw said:

ah...fxxk it, I decide to do you guys a favor. I will buy like 10 or more H-5167 16x3.0 puncture proof tires from my taobao seller and once I receive and confirm then i will ship to you guys all over the world.

BECAUSE, it costs only 50 RMB(like 7 dollars) on Taobao and it costs 50 USD on Amazon

Wow, did not know the markup was 700%. You're the real hero.

Sign me up for one tire please

Edited August 19, 2019 by chrisjunlee

[Jon Stern]

17 minutes ago, hsiang@tw said:

I don't know the shipping cost yet and I don't even have paypal account, but I will figure them out.

@Gustesta@Patton250@mrelwood@eddiemoy

let me know if you guys are interested.

I'm very interested.

I thought I just ordered one on Amazon, but my order confirmation said I'd ordered the 14x2.125!

I cancelled that order, and now there are no 16x3.0 tires in stock (there were 5 earlier).

Edited August 19, 2019 by Jon Stern

[Genghis]

35 minutes ago, hsiang@tw said:

let me know if you guys are interested.

I'd be interested as well.  I won't have my 16x until later this week.  But having a spare tire, just in case can't hurt.

[Hibiki Mr.H]

I just ordered 12 sets of 16x3.0 H-5167 puncture proof tire(same as on my 16X) with inner tube.

The combo with inner tube is 63 RMB(9 USD), tire only is 50 RMB (7 USD)

The Chinese seller is too cheap to give discount, like 1 RMB off each set..... come on !! really?!

hope you guys don't mind spare inner tube.

The shipping cost from China to Taiwan is estimated 27 RMB (3.85 USD) each.

and there's one more shipping cost from Taiwan to wherever you are.

Edited August 19, 2019 by hsiang@tw
typo

[cyfur]

Just now, hsiang@tw said:

I just ordered 12 sets of 16x3.0 H-5167 puncture proof tire(same as on my 16X) with inner tube.

The combo with inner tube is 63 RMB(9 USD), tire only is 50 RMB (7 USD)

The Chinese seller is too cheap to give discount, like 1 RMB less each set..... come on !! really?!

hope you guys don't mind spare inner tube.

The shipping cost from China to Taiwan is estimated 27 RMB (3.85 USD)

and there's one more shipping cost from Taiwan to wherever you are.

I'd be interested in getting one of these tires from you as well. Maybe someone in the US/Euro could act as the shipping middleman for other interested forum members to make it easier for you?

[mrelwood]

 

Quote

ah...fxxk it, I decide to do you guys a favor. I will buy like 10 or more H-5167 16x3.0 puncture proof tires from my taobao seller and once I receive and confirm then i will ship to you guys all over the world.

Oh man, I hope the global shipping costs won’t bite you and others in the behindy... When buying tires from Yoycart, they seemed so cheap until they slam on the ~$40 shipping costs. Anyway, what a team spirit you are!

I don’t have plans for getting a 16x3.0” wheel just yet, but I would definitely get the H-5167 in 18x3.0, 16x2.50, and 18x2.50 (one each). If you decide to take those in as well, I’m in!

Edit: I’d be the EU middleman, but international postage rates from Finland are just ridiculous, it would defeat the whole purpose.

Edited August 19, 2019 by mrelwood

[VonWiffen]

12 minutes ago, hsiang@tw said:

I just ordered 12 sets of 16x3.0 H-5167 puncture proof tire(same as on my 16X) with inner tube.

The combo with inner tube is 63 RMB(9 USD), tire only is 50 RMB (7 USD)

The Chinese seller is too cheap to give discount, like 1 RMB off each set..... come on !! really?!

hope you guys don't mind spare inner tube.

The shipping cost from China to Taiwan is estimated 27 RMB (3.85 USD) each.

and there's one more shipping cost from Taiwan to wherever you are.

Just joined this amazing forum after getting my KS16X last week.

I would like to buy one from you if still available. I live in Sweden but the tire can be shipped to Singapore (guessing that's cheaper).

Best regards Johan

[DragonFZ]

1 hour ago, hsiang@tw said:

So I asked the seller again if they ship different pattern randomly or what. The seller told me that it depends on the batch they have. So if you buy it now it comes with H-5167, you buy the same spec few months later, it might come with different pattern. (ps. just checked with seller, this batch of enhanced tire is H-5102 only, but the puncture proof one is H-5167)

ah...fxxk it, I decide to do you guys a favor. I will buy like 10 or more H-5167 16x3.0 puncture proof tires from my taobao seller and once I receive and confirm then i will ship to you guys all over the world.

BECAUSE, it costs only 50 RMB(like 7 dollars) on Taobao and it costs 50 USD on Amazon

i am sure it will still be wayyyy cheaper plus the global shipping. and you guys will be sure to receive the H-5167.

I don't know the shipping cost yet and I don't even have paypal account, but I will figure them out.

@Gustesta@Patton250@mrelwood@eddiemoy

let me know if you guys are interested.

 

Thanks... I'm interested in one.

[chrisjunlee]

I think @Jason McNeil will bulk order and distribute these if we agree on which tire is the best.

[chrisjunlee]

22 minutes ago, VonWiffen said:

Just joined this amazing forum after getting my KS16X last week.

I would like to buy one from you if still available. I live in Sweden but the tire can be shipped to Singapore (guessing that's cheaper).

Best regards Johan

Gave you your first react! Welcome to the forum!

[Genghis]

31 minutes ago, cyfur said:

34 minutes ago, hsiang@tw said:

I just ordered 12 sets of 16x3.0 H-5167 puncture proof tire(same as on my 16X) with inner tube.

The combo with inner tube is 63 RMB(9 USD), tire only is 50 RMB (7 USD)

The Chinese seller is too cheap to give discount, like 1 RMB less each set..... come on !! really?!

hope you guys don't mind spare inner tube.

The shipping cost from China to Taiwan is estimated 27 RMB (3.85 USD)

and there's one more shipping cost from Taiwan to wherever you are.

I'd be interested in getting one of these tires from you as well. Maybe someone in the US/Euro could act as the shipping middleman for other interested forum members to make it easier for you?

A trusted middleman may be cheaper for everyone involved, as long as there is a willing participant in doing the extra work of reshipping. 

Now I'm curious why there isn't a comparable seller on some of the large Chinese international merchant sites.  I may need to do some searching at some point.

[VonWiffen]

1 minute ago, chrisjunlee said:

Gave you your first react! Welcome to the forum!

Thanks 😀🤘

[Hibiki Mr.H]

@mrelwood is right AGAIN about the shipping cost.

I just went to local postal office during my lunch break

Since the tire cannot be folded, the shipping cost is calculated by Volume.

The estimated shipping cost to US and Finland /Sweden is about 40 USD !!

i don't know if that is still worth it for you guys...............

ps. I'm glad I placed order but i haven't paid for it.

Edited August 19, 2019 by hsiang@tw

[cyfur]

6 minutes ago, hsiang@tw said:

@mrelwood is right AGAIN about the shipping cost.

I just went to local postal office during my lunch break

Since the tire cannot be folded, the shipping cost is calculated by Volume.

The estimated shipping cost to US and Finland /Sweden is about 40 USD !!

i don't know if that is still worth it for you guys...............

 

Ouch. Is that per tire? Would it be any cheaper/tire to send a bunch to one address?