Gustesta Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 KS16X FIRMWARE UPDATE I got a message this morning on the KS app (Android, downloaded from their site) that an update was available. I started the update and it showed "updating" for 20 minutes. Never ended... So I restarted the wheel. Now my firmware version shows K16x test test. Please, when you set the speed limits on your app, is it limited to 50kmh? It's showing 60kmh on mine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Stern Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Gustesta said: KS16X FIRMWARE UPDATE I got a message this morning on the KS app (Android, downloaded from their site) that an update was available. I started the update and it showed "updating" for 20 minutes. Never ended... So I restarted the wheel. Now my firmware version shows K16x test test. Please, when you set the speed limits on your app, is it limited to 50kmh? It's showing 60kmh on mine. No new firmware showing as available for me (iOS app). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mike Paolini Posted August 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2019 Just finished 10 mile ride today myself (man this wheel is fun when - problems and all. I feel like I need to keep saying that, cause the problems over shadow otherwise). Sad to say it, but I just got the 15 degree tilt back issue while riding again. Post Bluetooth fix. It occurred for only about 4-5 seconds this time, righting itself prior to me grabbing a picture. Music was playing streaming to the speakers, and it was the same spot in the road where it had occurred before (making me think maybe the house nearby has a lot of wifi or is in the path of communications or such. So it's much improved, but not fixed. Didn't get the wobbles today over 10 mile ride (but I also didn't go looking for them),, so that was a nice change. PSI 35, rider weight 220. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpMudd Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Sad to hear about the tiltback issues still existing. I never experienced them before or after the bluetooth update. For me, the bluetooth update mainly fixed the annoying Kingsong speaker click upon powering off. I listen to streaming music all the time when I ride. I've never been able to hit beyond 28mph GPS speed. PSI 25, rider weight 145. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Earl Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said: Just finished 10 mile ride today myself (man this wheel is fun when - problems and all. I feel like I need to keep saying that, cause the problems over shadow otherwise). Sad to say it, but I just got the 15 degree tilt back issue while riding again. Post Bluetooth fix. It occurred for only about 4-5 seconds this time, righting itself prior to me grabbing a picture. Music was playing streaming to the speakers, and it was the same spot in the road where it had occurred before (making me think maybe the house nearby has a lot of wifi or is in the path of communications or such. So it's much improved, but not fixed. Didn't get the wobbles today over 10 mile ride (but I also didn't go looking for them),, so that was a nice change. PSI 35, rider weight 220. @Mike Paolini Thanks for your excellent reporting on this wheel! I'm curious about the severity of the lingering 15 degree tilt-back issue. Is it extremely violent and disruptive, or is it something you can learn to ride out until it rights itself? I'm familiar with the typical over speed tilt-back on the Inmotion wheels, and although it can sometimes catch you off guard, I've never felt that it introduces a stability issue for me. Do you think the KS16X RTP (random tilt phenomenon) similar, or more pronounced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Paolini Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Gustesta said: KS16X FIRMWARE UPDATE I got a message this morning on the KS app (Android, downloaded from their site) that an update was available. I started the update and it showed "updating" for 20 minutes. Never ended... So I restarted the wheel. Now my firmware version shows K16x test test. Please, when you set the speed limits on your app, is it limited to 50kmh? It's showing 60kmh on mine. I didn't see new firmware for mine yet. You know King Song was really aiming hard at catching and passing the Gotway Rider Experience with the new KSX. I'm going to say they caught and passed for both silent motor and for quality control and roll-out of both the wheel and the App.. :-P I'll wait for their "final" firmware before calling it on ride. ;-) (Though I do think I might be ready to sell my mTen3, because the KS16x certainly feels better to ride - and y'all *know* I love me some mTen3). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpMudd Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said: I didn't see new firmware for mine yet. You know King Song was really aiming hard at catching and passing the Gotway Rider Experience with the new KSX. I'm going to say they caught and passed for both silent motor and for quality control and roll-out of both the wheel and the App.. :-P I'll wait for their "final" firmware before calling it on ride. ;-) (Though I do think I might be ready to sell my mTen3, because the KS16x certainly feels better to ride - and y'all *know* I love me some mTen3). I was thinking of selling off my V8 and picking up either an MCM5 or MTEN3. Always need a backup wheel and after owning the KS16X for a little bit, hopping on the V8 feels a little toyish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mike Paolini Posted August 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Jeff Earl said: @Mike Paolini Thanks for your excellent reporting on this wheel! I'm curious about the severity of the lingering 15 degree tilt-back issue. Is it extremely violent and disruptive, or is it something you can learn to ride out until it rights itself? I'm familiar with the typical over speed tilt-back on the Inmotion wheels, and although it can sometimes catch you off guard, I've never felt that it introduces a stability issue for me. Do you think the KS16X RTP (random tilt phenomenon) similar, or more pronounced? @Jeff Earl It is extremely gentle and happens over roughly 5 seconds from both 0 to 15 degree, and then back from 15 degree to 0. It is easy ridden through and ignored (and I have), other than the fact the wheel is doing something on it's own which should be communication to slow and dismount (like over charging going down a hill). This Random Tilt back is unlike the King Song Slow Down Tilt, which is very violent imo and something to be avoided - you can experience this by setting the limiters, first time it happened at 10 mph for me (prior to unlocking properly), I damn near fell from surprise. I've heard from seperate viewers on my YouTube, that this Music Tilt bug is not new to the KS16x, but also occurred on the KS18XL as well just as an FYI. So net net, while the RTB is annoying and a reminder there is more safety engineering to do by King Song, it is not a show stopper, and I'm typically seeing it no more than 1 time in 10 miles, and usually close to startup. This is a fun wheel - it really is - but we can no longer pretend King Song has the high ground on engineering and safety here. This roll-out, in my mind, passes the Z10 for issues (also a fun wheel) and mishandling of them. Hit me up if you have any more questions. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Paolini Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, HarpMudd said: I was thinking of selling off my V8 and picking up either an MCM5 or MTEN3. Always need a backup wheel and after owning the KS16X for a little bit, hopping on the V8 feels a little toyish. @HarpMudd Well I have owned both the MCM5 and the mTen3. I've ridden and taught on the V8 - it's a nice entry level / mid level machine. Very polished, but lacking excitement. Bang for the buck, both are about $1k new and incredible value. They do different things though. The MCM5 is a great commuter and hill climber, you'll have no trouble keeping up and passing most EUC's out there. It's 2.125 inch tire does feel like a tightrope though. Acceleration is nuts on it. The mTen3 - is purely for playtime. That fat 3" tire powered by an 800W motor tied to a 10" diameter tire yields crazy torque that makes things possible that otherwise aren't - like balancing zero mph. It's also so some, that the slightest shift in weight, like say thinking about going right, cause it to appear to read your mind and react before you put your whole body into it. It's also a very non-threatening wheel. I use it mostly for chasing the kids around the neighborhood, going to the pool, and grabbing the mail. Also for playing in the parking lot while waiting on the group rides. Of the two, I sold the MCM5 to make room for the KS16x - and that was the correct decision for myself. I'm only partly kidding about selling the mTen3, because it is getting a lot less riding now that I have a 3" tire on a 2200W motor. Edited August 17, 2019 by Mike Paolini 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) So new firmware is out. Any clue how long it takes? Upgrade isn't making any progress after 20 minutes. Edit: I think I know what's going on. The usb bluetooth fix is probably interfering with the bluetooth OTA firmware update 🤦. Edited August 18, 2019 by chrisjunlee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afeez Kay Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, chrisjunlee said: So new firmware is out. Any clue how long it takes? Upgrade isn't making any progress after 20 minutes. Edit: I think I know what's going on. The usb bluetooth fix is probably interfering with the bluetooth OTA firmware update 🤦. You would hope they would have tested the installation of the firmware too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Mike Paolini said: I sold the MCM5 to make room for the KS16x I may be in the same boat, I dont think I can keep both my wheels and get a new one without having to sleep with the dog (baby on the way "no toys" for me is nicely paraphrasing my boss's orders 😁) If ya dont mind me asking, how long did it take to sell, how many miles and what did you end up getting out of it? If keep it and the 16s but my dad loves that one and hes retired on a fixed income so he cant get a wheel of his own. He doesnt like the knife edge riding behavior on the mcm5. Thank you for posting the videos on you tube as well. They've been a big help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Afeez Kay said: You would hope they would have tested the installation of the firmware too. Bit optimistic expecting them to perform end to end feature test :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Paolini Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Flying W said: I may be in the same boat, I dont think I can keep both my wheels and get a new one without having to sleep with the dog (baby on the way "no toys" for me is nicely paraphrasing my boss's orders 😁) If ya dont mind me asking, how long did it take to sell, how many miles and what did you end up getting out of it? If keep it and the 16s but my dad loves that one and hes retired on a fixed income so he cant get a wheel of his own. He doesnt like the knife edge riding behavior on the mcm5. Thank you for posting the videos on you tube as well. They've been a big help! @Flying W It was a few months back so I don't quite remember. I think I asked $850 which was apparently too low because it sold in about 24 hours. And you are welcome - I just try to tell it like it is and hope some people find it kind of useful sometimes. Edited August 18, 2019 by Mike Paolini 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 48 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said: @Flying W It was a few months back so I don't quite remember. I think I asked $850 which was apparently too low because it sold in about 24 hours. And you are welcome - I just try to tell it like it is and hope some people find it kind of useful sometimes. I'm selling mine with less miles for $800 - no biters yet 🐟 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Azze80 Posted August 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) On 8/16/2019 at 1:55 AM, Mike Sacristan said: Today I went for a cruise with Petra. After a few hours we met up with @Azze80 for some chill in the evening sun. He had his brand new 16X with him. Thanks @Azze80 for letting me try it. I love it. It clicked instantly, felt very nimble and slim enough for me. I tried getting it up to speed a bit and got a bit of a wobble. I remember learning the MSX and getting speed wobbles at 30-35. I can still get wobble from time to time depending on factors like wind, foot position, stance, etc. Definitely a 3" tire. Trams and follows irregular waves on the road. I come from an MSX though so nothing new. Also definitely a 16" tire. Easier to move around and especially easier up hill. And listen to that sound? What is that sound? It's nothing... not the whining squeal from the 18XL. Oink oink. Anyway... I made a little clip for you guys. Enjoy. Thanks @Mike Sacristan , I had a blast and it's always fun just to hang out. I just wanted to share some info since I've been getting a few questions of choosing wheels and if I've had any trouble with it. I've had No issues at all regarding pedal dip or any other issues for that matter. I do get small side to side vobbling which is mostly due to my lack inexperience with this type of wheel and I'll explain a little bit more further down. When buying these kinds of wheels with wider tire, the buyers expectations are often that one seem to think that the new wheels behavior will be the same as with at smaller more narrow tire... and when their expectations are not met , then one start complaining instead of just trying to figure out what you need to do to really "solve the puzzle", of what way is the best way to ride this particular wheel . So what I am trying to say here, I did get a lot of sidetoside vobbles in the beginning, but for every new meter I ride, they really fade out and go away. My recommendation is really taking some time without pushing the wheel too much to really feel how it handles in different situations(be patient), bad asphalt, leaning , carbing, incline , hills etc, repeat repeat and again, repeat. This wheel is a beast and is awesome, the overall impression is massive and impressive. For me who only weigh around 66 kg I have to adapt since the weight of the wheel is almost 38% of my own bodyweight. This is a massive importance to have with you when handling the wheel(also depending on your background and experience). Regarding the gyro effect of the tire, it has it and my brain is adapting well . I find it to be, so far, the best feeling when having the feet placed as far out as possible on the pedals with heals slightly turned towards the body and with the toes 1-2 cm overlapping the front edge of the pedals. Then just adjust to what ever obstacle that comes. I ride now at 20PSI. The wide spread of my feet is a complete different style when comparing with how I used to ride my ks14s. Other thing I've thought about, (it's a challenge for me, not a problem) , is that when riding, I can feel a very very small bump on the right side of the tire(near where you fill it with air, definitely not the rim). I can feel it every 1,5 sec when riding slow on good asphalt( very picky here). So what I will do is to empty it with air and then masage the inner tube , then make sure the tire is placed correctly (tire line distance to the rim) so it will run better. This can potentially solve my small side to side vobble when riding at higher speeds so I don't have to keep straight legs so much to avoid it. Trolley handle is fantastic BUT, I would not put too much force to it when fully extended, it then feels too lose , just logic since it extreme tall . Loudness of speakers and sound is fantastic, even the wifey said so . No talk regarding the price though , lol. Gives a better overall feeling of the product. To me, a beast and a high speed cruiser are two different wheels. Ask yourselves, what do I want? For ex, my 14" (ks14s) wheel was very easy to ride as an allround wheel when for ex going shopping in the grocery store close by or going on a bus or train, sometimes even easier than the 16x, but it handles terrain bad and it did not have the range nor the power or speed, but I still like the simplicity of an 14", so again, what do you want ? I love this wheel and I wouldn't trade it for another. Edited August 18, 2019 by Azze80 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Just a heads up: the firmware isn't updating. Kingsong app just hung on "updating firmware" - have tried both data and wifi, restarted, let it sit for hours, etc. There goes an evening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Azze80 said: I ride now at 20PSI. That explains everything wrt stability. Try riding it at 30psi and braking hard from 40km/h. That's the thing I've noticed here. Everyone who claims they don't have braking wobbles rides with pressures around 20psi. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mike Paolini Posted August 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Azze80 said: When buying these kinds of wheels with wider tire, the buyers expectations are often that one seem to think that the new wheels behavior will be the same as with at smaller more narrow tire... and when their expectations are not met , then one start complaining instead of just trying to figure out what you need to do to really "solve the puzzle", of what way is the best way to ride this particular wheel . @Azze80 This is condescending and assumptive on your part, and it is also not surprisingly wrong. Many of the riders are coming from 18x3" (MSX) and 18x4.1" (Z10) tires and we know what the ride is on these larger tires just as we know how to ride on the smaller ones... More to the point though, the people that own the KS16x have already put in hundreds of miles on the unit, and still complain of intermittent wobbles. At some point we have to stop collectively blaming the victims here - it's no longer about adjustment period, (I adjusted in the first 50 miles never mind the next 50 or the next 50 after that), but rather trying to identify what it is about this wheel that induces sometimes wobbles for experienced riders. At this point, I think it is far better to assume King Song guilty of design issues than innocent of them. At least till they get their house in order around the app, and the motor firmware, and the RF interference on the controller board - all three are know issues and are still unresolved at this point. 2 of the three could easily be the cause, and of course it may yet be something undiscovered or addressed. Also I don't think a single one of the people "complaining" dislike the wheel. Rather the opposite, we want it fixed because we love it, and is it currently is there are rider safety issues identified and [we hope] addressable. 5 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 44 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said: @Azze80 This is condescending and assumptive on your part, and it is also not surprisingly wrong. I really don't think so. So many posting opinions and asking questions to get the slightest reason to bail their preorder or why not to buy this wheel. Now the mantra is to change tyre, and people don't even get the chance to familiarizing with their new wheel. To me it looks more and more look like people expected something and not geting it because they didn't think/research what this could become. So we now have a baby Z10 that causes this polarized love vs hate opinions for whatever the reason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ir_fuel said: That explains everything wrt stability. Try riding it at 30psi and braking hard from 40km/h. That's the thing I've noticed here. Everyone who claims they don't have braking wobbles rides with pressures around 20psi. But then again both of you are fairly light riders. The higher you pump the tyres pressure the more difficult you will have controlling the wheel. (like standing on a wide fat robe or a thin wire for a line dancer at the circus). We saw the same thing with the Z10 as it didn't have a car tyre profile but a mc race profile tyre. And I think this is what is going on too with the KS16X. it is just not so perfound as the Z10. So what people are used to ride on other wheels pressure wise might not translate straight off to the KS16X. btw @ir_fuel what pressure do you use in the Z10? and what is the tyre rated at? Edited August 18, 2019 by Unventor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azze80 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Mike Paolini said: Many of the riders are coming from 18x3" (MSX) and 18x4.1" (Z10) tires and we know what the ride is on these larger tires just as we know how to ride on the smaller ones... I agree with a lot of what you say but for example. I have some experience of the MSX, I believe that one of the reasons (main reason) that it does not vobble as much as the 16x(cause it does vobble), is that you have more control over it due to the locked position with the side pads hitting your legs. Put thicker side pads on the 16x and see what happens Don’t hate me now, lol. I won’t take away you guys superior experience here. Just thoughts. anyways, thanks @Mike Sacristan for a great time and testing your wheel! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hibiki Mr.H Posted August 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 18, 2019 I just want to report back here, that I put the CYT 16x3.0 H-5167 on KS16X today and I LOVE IT. It completely removed the gyro effect of the wheel and no more wobbles. and man....this wheel became soooo nimble, like MCM5 on 2.125" tire. btw, I commute with KS14S and own a MSX, the 16X now feels like 15" nimbleness. So far it feels pretty stable too. I settled with 30~35 PSI, I usually go 40 PSI on 18 inch wheels but with this tire, it's too squirrelly at 40 PSI. Some people might love this tire and some people might not. I simply love the nimbleness of smaller wheels in general (and absolutely dislike the gyro effect on Z10) AND I LOVE THIS TIRE. 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I'll have the CST on mine on Wednesday. I don't mind the gyro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Unventor said: btw @ir_fuel what pressure do you use in the Z10? and what is the tyre rated at? 1.7 bar. No idea what the rating is but you can't compare because the Z10 is tubeless so it has a much stiffer tyre. My KS16X I can really bounce when standing on it, with that pressure. The Z10 is still pretty hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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