KingSong 16X 1554Wh 2200W 16*3in (Released July 2019)

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Slashebeest said:

I've been mailing too with Kingsong, wanted to know my weight as well 

Are they giving you the test firmware too?👍

Edited September 6, 2019 by stephen

[Rehab1]

45 minutes ago, HarpMudd said:

Ha you should try playing Two Live Crew from your 16X! Maybe you can offend some folks! 😛

Funny! Ya they were known for being crude but they actually stepped forward and helped a friend of mine whose son Brian was in a coma after an auto accident. TLC was the kid’s favorite band so I contacted their manager and they all went into their studio and recorded a CD with stuff like “ Brian- this is Luke of Two Live Crew....wake up buddy!”  Two days later he woke  up. 

***Last of the derailment! ***

[Rehab1]

6 hours ago, stephen said:

So I've been speaking to kingsong and they are sending me a test firmware ,

That’s great news! Are they sending you a waver to sign dismissing any liability on their part? 

[HarpMudd]

43 minutes ago, Blueblade said:

Now that's an image! Some guy on one wheel, with a crazy tongue-sticking-out face on the front, blasting "me so horny" as he rides by lol

ROFL!

[Mike Paolini]

6 hours ago, stephen said:

Update

So I've been speaking to kingsong and they are sending me a test firmware ,

 I want to  test the new throttling cause i presume that's what they've done and not emailed me saying tell me when it cuts out on you😂😂 I'm sure they are keeping there saftey margins i will let you know how i get on 

For the more experienced riders who just need that little bit more and know the limitations on any wheel   power/ voltage/speed /weight/terain etc a new throttling will serve everyone's desire be it intermediate or experience, we are never going to irradicate the people out there who want to push the limits to the very top till it fails of any wheel and give euc a bad rep 

We just want an amazing euc with good spec 2200w etc for all levels of riding and still keep in the safe margin ofc , for those who say they will never do them speeds your fine 👍 for those who need that little bit more your desire will be also fulfilled 👍 (everyone's happy 😊) for those who want to still ride this wheel or any other wheel past tiltback and warnings👎,, don't do it,,

Also been speaking to someone who are in talks with kingsong  and there's a newer firmware been looked at maybe it's the one they are sending me but I'm still sure there's a safer margin just an acceptable one 

I'm a little bit more happy with my purchase and maybe put some minds at rest including mine 😊 glad they are looking into it though

Thanks 

This is fantastic news, and hopefully you can dial it for them.

I'm starting to believe there are inconsistent behaviors we are seeing on 1.06 - as the number of people reporting a different experience than mine is a bit troubling.  (It's a little like the few of us that were getting random 15 degree tilt from the BT).   

I'll try to do some more testing utilizing a consistent methodology as well.

Lastly, I suspect as you dial this, an option slider might a good way for KS to go similar to the speed alarms with more safety reserve on side, and minimal safety reserve on the other - and prep an unlock on it as they had on the speed.

[Patton250]

15 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

This is fantastic news, and hopefully you can dial it for them.

I'm starting to believe there are inconsistent behaviors we are seeing on 1.06 - as the number of people reporting a different experience than mine is a bit troubling.  (It's a little like the few of us that were getting random 15 degree tilt from the BT).   

I'll try to do some more testing utilizing a consistent methodology as well.

Lastly, I suspect as you dial this, an option slider might a good way for KS to go similar to the speed alarms with more safety reserve on side, and minimal safety reserve on the other - and prep an unlock on it as they had on the speed.

1.06  behaves perfectly for me. It rides like a dream all the way to 50% battery and then it throttles back below 25 mph. 

[FreeRide]

It's possible that their voltage sensor is not accurately calibrated on all their wheels, and since it appears that it is the only measurement they make (which is a poor measurement for Li Technology cells) this is skewing the results. It is also possible that the measurement is subject to errors based on their sampling rate and filtering.  Hopefully they will get to the bottom of it and eventually start using cells with a higher discharge rate even if it means slightly reducing the Wh, because it is not likely to reduce overall range based on their usage profile.  Of course they could start using good 21700 cells like they should have been doing more than a year and solve many problems, and increase specs at the same time.

Edited September 6, 2019 by FreeRide
typo: week -> great

[eucinsea]

17 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

1.06  behaves perfectly for me. It rides like a dream all the way to 50% battery and then it throttles back below 25 mph. 

This an other comments about 1.06 have finally made me decide to do it. I just did and had to horizontal calibrate twice.

I haven't gone over 22Mph yet anyway and do not really plan on it. I think my tilt-back is set at 24 Mph even.

[fryman]

16 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

It's possible that their voltage sensor is not accurately calibrated on all their wheels, and since it appears that it is the only measurement they make (which is a poor measurement for Li Technology cells) this is skewing the results. It is also possible that the measurement is subject to errors based on their sampling rate and filtering.  Hopefully they will get to the bottom of it and eventually start using cells with a higher discharge rate even if it means slightly reducing the Wh, because it is not likely to reduce overall range based on their usage profile.  Of course they could start using good 21700 cells like they should have been doing more than a year and solve many problems, and increase specs at the same time.

I still think its the new 2200W motor.

[FreeRide]

2 minutes ago, fryman said:

I still think its the new 2200W motor.

Why would it be the motor?  Are you saying that the tolerances for the motor winding vary too much?  That is very unlikely based on the way the windings are typically done, not sure about the quality control on the magnets, but since that is relatively easy I don't see why that would be an issue.  Or are you just saying that the battery-pack and the motor are not well matched?  In other words are you saying that the motor loses power in some cases because the battery/software will not supply the required power?  If this was the case I would not say it was a motor issue, but a power/controller issue.

[fryman]

24 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

Why would it be the motor?  Are you saying that the tolerances for the motor winding vary too much?  That is very unlikely based on the way the windings are typically done, not sure about the quality control on the magnets, but since that is relatively easy I don't see why that would be an issue.  Or are you just saying that the battery-pack and the motor are not well matched?  In other words are you saying that the motor loses power in some cases because the battery/software will not supply the required power?  If this was the case I would not say it was a motor issue, but a power/controller issue.

The power needed to run the new motor is what I am getting at.  If they had run a 2000W motor I am not sure we would be having these issues. Only KS knows cause there are so many variables.

Edited September 6, 2019 by fryman

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Rehab1 said:

That’s great news! Are they sending you a waver to sign dismissing any liability on their part? 

Sort of😀

I'm only testing probably an updating version, it's probaly not going to be as low as 1.05 which people had so should be relatively safe tbh . The told me to wear protection👍😊😀

[Juggler]

10 minutes ago, stephen said:

Sort of😀

I'm only testing probably an updating version, it's probaly not going to be as low as 1.05 which people had so should be relatively safe tbh . The told me to wear protection👍😊😀

Crash dummies comes to mind LOL

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

KS 16X Modified Mudguard

 

My God, this is awesome. Did you modify some kind of mask or create this from scratch. Amazing 

[Mike Paolini]

Quick update, guys.

KS released a preproduction update to 70v & a 5kph drop, instead of the 74v & 10kph which I've just been granted access to - so it appears they are listening.

I'll get it installed and let you know what I discover.

[pico]

52 minutes ago, fryman said:

The power needed to run the new motor is what I am getting at.  If they had run a 2000W motor I am not sure we would be having these issues. Only KS knows cause there are so many variables.

This is exactly what I am thinking. When the "fans" started wanting 50km/h they rewound the motor to get the RPM. It was originally designed for TORQUE!

By getting a motor with LESS impedance(say resistance here), they increased the power(2200w) hence the current, hence new problems at low battery.

W = V² / R   

W = I² x R 

Think again, these things will have to run also at lower temperature(in the winter) when batteries do not perform so well. They ARE extra cautious and I cannot blame them.

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by pico

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

I take some footage today. 

You need to ride past some pedestrians/cycles and film their reaction. 

[eucinsea]

1 hour ago, prasket said:

This an other comments about 1.06 have finally made me decide to do it. I just did and had to horizontal calibrate twice.

I have made a grave mistake, this update made some other changes that I do not think anyone has commented on.

• grinding now seems worse at low speeds than it was, very disappointing as this was the reason I upgraded to 1.06 in first place.
• 16x is now making a sound that gets dogs attention. I have passed by probably 75 dogs in past week on my KS 16x on 1.05 and maybe one of them paid any attention to me. This morning EVERY dog I passed started barking and trying to get at me on my EUC. Very bad for me as there are SOO many dang dogs around Seattle. I was REALLY happy in 1.05 as it seemed dogs just ignored me like I was on a bicycle.

Tagging @Micheal Shen @US69 to hopefully get attention on the sounds making dogs crazy in 1.06.

[Unventor]

19 minutes ago, Mike Paolini said:

Quick update, guys.

KS released a preproduction update to 70v & a 5kph drop, instead of the 74v & 10kph which I've just been granted access to - so it appears they are listening.

I'll get it installed and let you know what I discover.

I can only say I hope gear up properly when testing this. I know you have your gear in order @Mike Paolini.

I also think people need to consider, hot areas might be good for testing, but maybe things don't show as risk there, but in cold areas as where I am battery chemistry is not as effective. Then comes the ageing process too, might not be an issue at first but at a later point...

If only life was simple. I can only say I am glad to have bought a KS and they put time, care and efforts into safety despite some people dislike it. I on the other hand see this as #1 must have deal enabler. 

[greentung]

19 minutes ago, prasket said:

I have made a grave mistake, this update made some other changes that I do not think anyone has commented on.

• grinding now seems worse at low speeds than it was, very disappointing as this was the reason I upgraded to 1.06 in first place.
• 16x is now making a sound that gets dogs attention. I have passed by probably 75 dogs in past week on my KS 16x on 1.05 and maybe one of them paid any attention to me. This morning EVERY dog I passed started barking and trying to get at me on my EUC. Very bad for me as there are SOO many dang dogs around Seattle. I was REALLY happy in 1.05 as it seemed dogs just ignored me like I was on a bicycle.

Tagging @Micheal Shen @US69 to hopefully get attention on the sounds making dogs crazy in 1.06.

I am glad I am not the only one with EUC dog whisperer problem. I noticed a few dogs get a little curious when I ride by on my EUC in Seattle. Not all the time though. But if you're getting this much attention it may be the wheel. I have an EE friend. Maybe I'll measure my wheels with his spectrum analyzer and transducer. 

[HarpMudd]

4 minutes ago, greentung said:

I am glad I am not the only one with EUC dog whisperer problem. I noticed a few dogs get a little curious when I ride by on my EUC in Seattle. Not all the time though. But if you're getting this much attention it may be the wheel. I have an EE friend. Maybe I'll measure my wheels with his spectrum analyzer and transducer. 

The EUC does appear to grab a dogs attention. Hopefully the tweak in 1.07 will either slightly adjust the frequency that doesn't make it sound like a dog whistle OR give us the raw acceleration that we need to outrun them!

Edited September 6, 2019 by HarpMudd

[eucinsea]

OK I am going to add the 1.06 noise issue to the 16x Issues thread since others are confirming. :sadpanda: 

[Mike Paolini]

48 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I can only say I hope gear up properly when testing this. I know you have your gear in order @Mike Paolini.

I also think people need to consider, hot areas might be good for testing, but maybe things don't show as risk there, but in cold areas as where I am battery chemistry is not as effective. Then comes the ageing process too, might not be an issue at first but at a later point...

If only life was simple. I can only say I am glad to have bought a KS and they put time, care and efforts into safety despite some people dislike it. I on the other hand see this as #1 must have deal enabler. 

Damn straight on the safety gear, though I may switch over from my usual motorcycle lvl2 jacket to something more fully armored on the torso.

Rest assured on the testing in hot areas (and hills), I've got you covered.   It's 98f right now in Austin Texas, climbing to 103 today by 2 pm.  Those temps plus my high riding PSI may be why I wasn't seeing the results other were - you are spot on with the chemistry observations. 

Anyway I just finished a quick checkout ride on the XT 906 firmware (5 miles averaging 24 mph with a peak of 27 mph before I got a think I got a verbal warning - hard to tell with the wind noise & it could have also been a guitar solo .  You fast riders are a crazy bunch to me trading music for wind noise (and adrenaline).   With the 906 firmware I've lost the ability to check or set the the alarms via the official app, and I forgot to do it in the KS SoftTuner), at 37 PSI and a rider weight of 220+ gear, music streaming over BT) - just to start draining the battery down from the 100% balanced charge I had it.  I'll hit it again once the sun starts to relax as those temperatures in full gear is not my favorite thing. (Also I need them to confirm XT906 was the correct firmware).  And keep hammering it over the weekend to see how it behaves at low battery - and with a little luck I'm hoping neither I nor my KS16x are injured in this process.

(Also seemed like the peddles were more stable to me, but that could have been the effect of the safety boots and driving fast and straight instead of the usual carving).

[CampDylan]

On 8/31/2019 at 1:43 PM, j00cantseeme said:

Nice! Where can we buy the CYT? 

eWheels

[CampDylan]

Lucky me:  My new 2nd Batch 16x wheel will ship with FW v1.05, CYT tire, loctite applied to trolly handle threads.

Unlucky me:  I will continue to wait until at least the 20th...