To Grip or Not to Grip? That is the Question

[Smoother]

I've noticed that some riders talk about gripping the wheel as a regular thing.  My legs only occasionally touch the sides of the wheel; in fact I frequently find myself adjusting my feet positions so as to reduce the calf contact to an absolute minimum.  So I am curious how others ride.  This poll is for experienced riders (more than 500KM ) as beginners haven't yet become one with their wheel, and all beginner crutches have not yet been dispensed with.

 

EDIT. More questions added to reflect statements of respondents, and other thoughts.  No more room for questions, or I would have asked about different grip preferences based on speed.  If you feel you have a speed related grip thought, please share.

[ED209]

Alot depends on the type of wheel you ride, I find myself gripping the Monster more often than I would on a 14 inch wheel. It could also be for fear, that If I lose control of the Monster, the weight of the wheel could easily damage the shell. 

[meepmeepmayer]

I voted "other" on the second question as I had to mark some option despite voting no on the first. So subtract one of that.

Maybe all these tall wheels make people grip them? All praise the low low low ACM and KS16(S) form factors, enforcing good stance (I say good stance, but if gripping works for you, that is obviously good too).

[RockyTop]

Normally I move my feet so I do not feel the wheel on my legs yet I can still grip if needed. I grip to jump up curbs. I touch without gripping during long straight high speed runs. (cruse control mode)

[winterwheel]

In severely icy conditions I sometimes do a "semi-grip". One leg is hard against the wheel to keep it from sliding around too much, while the other is on its normal, non-touching position for balance corrections.

[LanghamP]

I think, as a device you stand on, the EUC is particularly difficult to stay in control because there's so few contact points, and the ones you do have are too small for grip and leverage.

The bigger the contact point, the more precise leverage you have, helping both control and forgiveness.

Now if you're like me, basically a helmet less sidewalk surfer going extremely slow, poor control of your wheel doesn't matter. Touch the sides or don't, you're still golden.

Let's compare a few other vehicles I kick around.

My bicycle has five contact points of which four are locked in (clips and hands).

My longboard has only two, and sometimes one, contact point but that contact point is extremely forgiving. You can be on the front, middle, sides, and you can be pretty far off and it still works.

My mechanical unicycle. Four, as one hand can grip the seat.

My kick scooter. Like the skateboard but much better since you have hands.

My rollerblades. Two extremely secure contact points.

In my opinion, we grip the sides of our wheels because we are bad at anticipating what happens to the wheel in the next few seconds and the footpads are too small too forgive us if we get our feet moved. My thinking is that large enough footpads should entirely preclude sidepads because the contact points will be both large and forgiving. Sidepads are a poor substitute for large footpads; take the wheel with larger footpads everytime.

I think most of veteran riders instinctively understand this footpad to control/foregiveness relationship, and so we complain incessantly about having larger footpads. Sidepads are for keeping your pretty wheel scratch free.

You shouldn't have to:

1. Clamp wheel to go up hill.

2. When hitting bumps, the wheel should be forgiving enough so you can move around your feet. The "Death Clamp" is because you cannot afford to move even a tiny bit.

3. Have your feet fall off the front. Ludicrous.

4. Grip your wheel to jump small curbs. No, you should have the option to bounce your wheel if the footpads are big enough. For the nutters among us, ok, sure, grip your wheel but that's way beyond my skill.

The question you should be asking is "are my footpads long and wide enough?" Because all those reasons used to grip the wheel can be addressed by making the footpads bigger (except maybe curb jumping, but then again I had the three worst crashes from doing that).

[meepmeepmayer]

32 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

The question you should be asking is "are my footpads long and wide enough?

Exactly this. Gripping is a band-aid. In addition to bigger foot pedals, the wheel also needs a lot of power (torque, really) so it can react to your input quickly. E.g.I can force my ACM up any incline by standing on my toes, without gripping the wheel. Or braking hard downhill by digging the heels in, without gripping. So big pedals + torque = good, no gripping needed.

Also, the more relaxed and loose you stand on the wheel, the better it can rumble under you without affecting you. Your body's momentum will force it back on track automatically. So I think gripping may be counterproductive. See the "bend knees rapidly, just let yourself drop" technique of dealing with sudden obstacles. Let the wheel do what it does, just loosely guide it because your feet are there anyways, and it can come back to being stable under you.

That doesn't work if the wheel gets stopped by something and you don't. So instead of side pads, we might need front pads that get caught by your feet and drag the wheel forwards with you in such a situation. Same effect as bigger pedals that don't make you loose stance if you get lifted off the wheel for a moment.

[winterwheel]

 

48 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Also, the more relaxed and loose you stand on the wheel, the better it can rumble under you without affecting you. Your body's momentum will force it back on track automatically. So I think gripping may be counterproductive.

Totally agree with this. Riding loosely on the wheel I can feel the wheel bounce around under me when it hits something, but momentum just brings everything back into line. Gripping the wheel when you hit a bump means the bump impacts the rider, not just the wheel.

A question I wonder about is whether wobbles affect grippers more than non-grippers. I feel like the wheel wants to wobble sometimes but riding loosely means I can correct before it becomes a problem. 

[Smoother]

2 hours ago, LanghamP said:

The question you should be asking is "are my footpads long and wide enough?"

Why yes they are, thanks for asking. 34cm to be precise. But when they were factory I still only gripped in certain situations, rough ground, etc.

 

 

 

[Flying W]

I still grip going over some things where there is a good chance my feel will come off, like crossing a driveway on the sidewalk,  basically anytime I think the machine will leave the ground I grip the wheel. It's just a reaction I still have.

I used to do this over bumps like crossing a gutter but after noticing that most people who have rode for a long time dont really grip with their legs I've stopped doing it. Feels smoother this way too. In sure if I could adjust my feet better it would help too. I still have to slow down to 10mph or less to move my feet. 

I've also noticed if I let my support leg land where it naturally does when I take off it feels better but when I look down my placement is different for each foot. Do most of you ride asymmetrical? 

[Smoother]

8 hours ago, Flying W said:

I still grip going over some things where there is a good chance my feel will come off, like crossing a driveway on the sidewalk,  basically anytime I think the machine will leave the ground I grip the wheel. It's just a reaction I still have.

I used to do this over bumps like crossing a gutter but after noticing that most people who have rode for a long time dont really grip with their legs I've stopped doing it. Feels smoother this way too. In sure if I could adjust my feet better it would help too. I still have to slow down to 10mph or less to move my feet. 

I've also noticed if I let my support leg land where it naturally does when I take off it feels better but when I look down my placement is different for each foot. Do most of you ride asymmetrical? 

Getting airborne (feet leaving the pedals is a legitimate concern because ones feet rarely lands back where they started.  Land too far either way and a face plant is next on the to-do list. In my early days i practiced riding down stairs, (very broad stairs) each time I landed my feet were 1cm further forward.  By the third step I had to stop before I lost control. Generally, I used to leave the pedals more than I do now and I've had to think why it has changed.  I think there are two reasons, 1. I hit less unexpected things now than I used to (i.e. I watch my path more closely AND actively steer around the worst things in my path. 2. I bend zee knees. Slightly, when the surface is known to me and relatively smooth, and severely when going cross country.  If you use your knees as shock absorbers the airborne incidents are greatly reduced.  There's one extremely rough path I ride from sea level to to top of some cliffs, which really make my quads burn, especially if I keep the speed up.  Despite being an up hill bump fest, I never grip the wheel, and never get airborne, but there are times when the shocks to the quads are so severe that i have to slow down until the burn subsides.

Longer pedals help too.  getting airborne on stock pedals can easily put the balls of your feet out in the breeze with nothing underneath them.  With longer pedals you land on the pedals, ok, not where you want to be, but you at least have a fighting chance of slowing down under control, and readjusting.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

4 hours ago, Smoother said:

Longer pedals help too.  getting airborne on stock pedals can easily put the balls of your feet out in the breeze with nothing underneath them.  With longer pedals you land on the pedals, ok, not where you want to be, but you at least have a fighting chance of slowing down under control, and readjusting.

I'm currently using the new large size King Song pedals... They make quite a difference if you land "out of place" - as there is more pedal available maintaining balance is easier and you have time to reposition again. 

[Andy Crossett]

As a still beginning rider, I'm gripping less and now just want my leg close to the side pads but not touching. Much more comfortable riding.

[Flying W]

5 hours ago, Smoother said:

I bend zee knees. Slightly, when the surface is known to me and relatively smooth, and severely when going cross country.  

I keep reminding my dad of this, he doesnt lock his knees but the bend is very slight. I've seen his feet come off the pedals on speed bumps (almost never a surprise as he sees them coming and slows down). 

@The Fat Unicyclist the new kingsong pedals are awesome!  I put them on my 16s. I wear a 9.5 to 10 size skate shoe so they almost cover my whole shoe!

How do you all feel about toes pointed in (like speedy feet) vs toes pointed slightly out? Lately I've been keeping my feet wide on the pedals with my toes pointed slightly out. This make it easier to point my inside knee into the turn while crouching down low. It also makes the wheels feel less....darty (only word in I can think of right now)....when my toes point in like a pidgeon the wheel is very eager to turn.

One of the best things about commuting is being able to try new things on a familiar route!

[pico]

1 hour ago, Flying W said:

How do you all feel about toes pointed in (like speedy feet) vs toes pointed slightly out?

I  could be wrong, but most people with great familiarity with tricks(like Speedyfeet) have a bias for toe in. (Even if sometimes strong toe out is needed for special maneuvers)

I can hardly see a toe out posture for single foot riding...

 

[Mono]

I also find the type of grip important. The contact point changed for me from the lower legs to the ankles. I do make tight contact only when needed and then preferably with the ankle. Lower legs only come into play for one legged riding.

[Alex_from_NZ]

Im now just under 500kms on my z10, but i dont care about rules so voted anyway.

Dont grip at all.  Legs as wide as possible, feet hanging off the sides of the pedals and my riding has improved considerably.  Cant thank @houseofjob enough for his tips.

[Flying W]

1 hour ago, pico said:

I  could be wrong, but most people with great familiarity with tricks(like Speedyfeet) have a bias for toe in. (Even if sometimes strong toe out is needed for special maneuvers)

I can hardly see a toe out posture for single foot riding...

 

This is true, my feeble attempts at one leg maneuvers require the toes pointed in but I just move my feet to practice (poorly) one legged riding. 

For me it's not even about tricks yet, just want to be able adjust my feet without doing the heal lift shuffle 

[pico]

9 minutes ago, Flying W said:

This is true, my feeble attempts at one leg maneuvers require the toes pointed in but I just move my feet to practice (poorly) one legged riding. 

For me it's not even about tricks yet, just want to be able adjust my feet without doing the heal lift shuffle 

Don't worry, it will come sooner than you think! Just keep trying and soon you will join her rank! Cheers!

Credit print screen from a post by  ED209  in the video  thread.

 

[winterwheel]

On 12/23/2018 at 5:13 AM, Smoother said:

Getting airborne (feet leaving the pedals is a legitimate concern because ones feet rarely lands back where they started.  Land too far either way and a face plant is next on the to-do list. In my early days i practiced riding down stairs, (very broad stairs) each time I landed my feet were 1cm further forward.  By the third step I had to stop before I lost control. Generally, I used to leave the pedals more than I do now and I've had to think why it has changed.  I think there are two reasons, 1. I hit less unexpected things now than I used to (i.e. I watch my path more closely AND actively steer around the worst things in my path. 2. I bend zee knees. Slightly, when the surface is known to me and relatively smooth, and severely when going cross country.  If you use your knees as shock absorbers the airborne incidents are greatly reduced.  There's one extremely rough path I ride from sea level to to top of some cliffs, which really make my quads burn, especially if I keep the speed up.  Despite being an up hill bump fest, I never grip the wheel, and never get airborne, but there are times when the shocks to the quads are so severe that i have to slow down until the burn subsides.

Longer pedals help too.  getting airborne on stock pedals can easily put the balls of your feet out in the breeze with nothing underneath them.  With longer pedals you land on the pedals, ok, not where you want to be, but you at least have a fighting chance of slowing down under control, and readjusting.

Best way to work on this is to find some speed bumps, practice going over them while keeping feet on the footpads, gradually increasing speed so the wheel gets a bit of a  bounce going. Keeping knees well bent in that situation makes it easy to maintain contact with the footpads throughout the bump.