Z10 in the UK

[Nic]

22 minutes ago, RayBanMonster said:

Exactly. the value is nothing to you.  I suspect you're so rich this doesn't really matter.  I would say to to those looking  in, this is a huge lesson to those that value their money.  I do accept, the monied people have no idea the economics of failure and trust involved here. 

I wish ... I am tempted by getting the Z10 for low price of £1000 as I wouldn't buy it at £2000 because that's more than I can really afford at the moment. So, its very tempting to assume it will turn up, and if it doesn't I will start legal action. I also can't find anything bad on him on-line, so I am not going to assume he is crooked even though it seems like he might be. Yes, I see the signs, but I can also see that he could also be genuine and simply bad at business and also not totally truthful in communications with customers.

Why send in the lynch mob, when it could all be very innocent ... I've learned not to jump to conclusions unless I get some piece of evidence that confirms beyond doubt that he is a fraudster, but I don't see that, not anywhere. He knows his time to deliver will run out soon as I've been on his case for over a week now and he knows I will take action because he responded quickly as soon as he got my email and as I was filling out a fraud report on-line. If he doesn't come through with Z10, then I will learn a lesson and never give anyone this much leeway again. If he does come through, then I am reassured that my intuition was correct and he is just out of his depth running his 3 businesses ... especially as he seems to be doing a lot of the work himself.

If anyone finds anything that can pin him down as crooked, then please post that info here.  Running a business for 3 years and no bad reviews ... a bit odd to say the least ... I've got to take him at his word for now. I am not in a hurry as newer Z10 will be improved with less bugs so fewer problems for me to be busy dealing with. I have a V8 to keep me happy in the meantime.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Nic

[RayBanMonster]

Just now, Nic said:

I wish ... I am tempted by getting the Z10 for low price of £1000 as I wouldn't buy it at £2000 because that's more than I can really afford at the moment. So, its very tempting to assume it will turn up, and if it doesn't I will start legal action. I also can't find anything bad on him on-line, so I am not going to assume he is crooked even though it looks like he might be. Yes, I see the signs, but I can also see that he could also be genuine and simply bad at business.

Why send in the lynch mob, when it could all be very innocent ... I've learned not to jump to conclusions unless I get some piece of evidence that confirms beyond doubt that he is a fraudster, but I don't see that, not anywhere. He knows his time to deliver will run out soon as I've been on his case for over a week now and he knows I will take action because he responded quickly as soon as he got my email and as I was filling out a fraud report on-line. If he doesn't come through with Z10, then I will learn a lesson and never give anyone this much leeway again. If he does come through, then I am reassured that my intuition was correct and he is just out of his depth running his 3 businesses ... especially as he seems to be doing a lot of the work himself.

If anyone finds anything that can pin him down as crooked, then please post that info here.  Running a business for 3 years and no bad reviews ... a bit odd to say the least ... I've got to take him at his word for now. I am not in a hurry as newer Z10 will be improved with less bugs so fewer problems for me to be busy dealing with. I have a V8 to keep me happy in the meantime.

Youre still entertaining the issueof obtaining one.  Most if wronged have no issue. Youre privileged.

[Nic]

3 minutes ago, RayBanMonster said:

Youre still entertaining the issueof obtaining one.  Most if wronged have no issue. Youre privileged.

I don't really understand the last 2 sentences, but I do appreciate your input and I take note of it.

[Nic]

Website certificate is genuine and ScamAdvisor.com reports High trust score of 97%. It beggars belief that a real fraudster could get away with scamming people for nearly 4 years now and not one bad word on internet. It just doesn't add up. He seems legit for now...

Edited January 5, 2019 by Nic

[Smoother]

On 1/4/2019 at 5:19 PM, Nic said:

I am amazed with amount of emails you sending a minute, we are not fraud company if we were then how could we run our business for few years ? How could we attend into many shows within UK , evidance attached refund is absolutely fine but this is not as easy as you think .. as you know something happened between our lines and we somehow missed your order and it has been paid into our supplier account, ONE:I will contact finance department in order to process that for you but this makes a lot of difficulties to us as well as you z10 has been reserved too and we are waiting for the realese, THREE (1) :our new born child 3 weeks time has heart disease most of the time today and yesterday I spend in hospital, and I am just hearing new messages from you ... FOUR: If you really willing to spread false informstions against us we will need to contact lawayer as well, as you have placed your order I will provide him your address in order to inform you about consequences spreading false informstions about companies.

We never fraud anyone and I would be ashemed to do that, if I knew this would happen we would never add any z10 to website as because of the dates change everything came on us, I know it's not your fault and I fully understand your frustration but you are changing your mind each second how can we work like this?

Please see attached, because we have reserved your ninebot and TWO: I would need to pay from my pocket your refund, and THREE (1):I had to invest a lot into my kid heart surgery, please give me few days probably next week few people coming to view Nano so they can purchase FIVE:  I will then immediately a refund you full amount I will also send you a recomopenssation of 100GBP for all inconveniences you came across.

I am not that bad guy as you think, I have never cheated anyone, but few people done that to me , SIX: for example two years ago our company has been fraudrd for 20k someone came purchased mini pros and then made a claim so they received money and mini pros ,SEVEN: we had long court war that time.

EIGHT: I will also give a discount on any product you wish for in future, NINE! we are now opening a showroom for nano in Ireland as well.

Z10 is very unfortunate I need to admit and I do apologise once again.

ONE: What "one man band" has a finance department?

TWO: Why would he need to contact the finance department if he would do the refund from his own account?

THREE: If he's been living and working and paying taxes in England for three years, why is he paying for heart surgery when it's 100% free here unless you have insurance, in which case it's still free , minus a deductible or two?

FOUR: Counter threatening a customer who he owes money/product to is classic fear tactics.  He's hoping you back of.  Which you have done.

FIVE: Promising you a refund AND a bonus.  Is not the same as paying you a refund and a bonus.  By offering a bonus he is exciting your desire to gain more than you put in, which keeps you hanging on longer.

SIX: by claiming he has been a victim of fraud he illicits your sympathy and gains your trust because you think "how could he be a fraud when he has been the victim of a fraud" Which of course is spurious because crooks can be robbed.  And all this assumes he is telling the truth in the first place.

SEVEN:  Really?  Then there should be a court case to refer to, and loads of paperwork to and from the lawyers etc.  Will he provide some?

EIGHT: Promising you future discounts is not the same as giving you a discount, and also pressures you to keep holding on

NINE: What one man band stretched to the limit (by your observation) and with company accounts so empty he would have to refund you from his personal account, has the time and money and all the other resources to open another showroom in Ireland?  BTW have you been to his "showroom" in England.

ten ( no link) That wheel chair with "Nicholas" on it is the same chair in his "office" photo.  You know, the photo which shows one wheel and this chair.  It proves nothing except he has photographed two self balancing devices.

 

But you're right I cannot find anything to show this guy is conning you. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Smoother

[Nic]

Ok, I suppose I might as well post the questions I asked Dominik and his response...

My questions...

Quote

1.    You take payment by bank transfer only ... this is normally a sign of fraud. Paypal would have been safer, though buyer protection is only for 180 days so I would still have problem in my case .
2.    Your head office address (Ninebot UK, 8 Wadsworth Rd, Perivale, London, UB6 7JD, UK ) shows no business of this name on Google street view.
3.    The Terms & Conditions (www.theninebot.co.uk/terms-conditions/) refer to EcoRover Ltd, a company you were director of and which was dissolved via compulsory strike-off on 01 August 2017.
4.    The Ninebot UK website looks unfinished (google maps on contact page shows ‘For development purposes only’,  www.theninebot.co.uk/contact-info/ ). A fake website?
5.    I continually asked for updates and some indication of delivery date, but you failed to respond and then when I got a reply, you failed to supply a date or estimated date.
6.    I notified you that I was still waiting for Z10 when you still had one in stock and was offering it for sale to a colleague. You later told me you sold last one. The pre-order only stopped on website on same day you sold last Z10. I checked almost every day, so I noticed this and that’s when I contacted you. You could have sent that Z10 to me, but chose to sell it instead (assuming it even existed).
7.    I cannot find any information on your company (www.theninebot.co.uk) on the government business website. I just find now dissolved EcoRover Ltd (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09390793/officers). Do you have a company number for Ninebot UK I can check?
8.    I don’t know of anyone that has done business with Ninebot UK, therefore I cannot tell if there are real customers that received product.
9.    You don’t give your full name in your emails and you even spell your first name differently (Dominic vs. Dominik). This makes me suspect you are trying to hide something and don’t want me searching for information on you (e.g. EcoRover Ltd). Its far better to be honest and above board, as that says you have nothing to hide ... most people are very understanding.
10.    Do you even have a Finance Department? The only person I can be sure even exists is Dominik! ... Always be honest and you can never be caught out. You may even have a Finance Department, but the only person customers are aware of is Dominik (is this a one man business?). How many people do you employ? 1?
11.    NHS treatment is FREE in UK.

 

Dominik's answers...

Quote

1) We use to accept paypal for many years but paypal did changed their policy  and sometimes we had to wait very very long to clear the funds, Thats why we are working on signing contract with payment merchant which is not easy as merchants do receive many claims back , for example we send a product and they still make a claim, from2017 it becomed very hard to sign contract like that, Bank transfer is not a fraud, you are not sending money to Africa or other country not based in EU
2) we use to rent our office there, we can provide evidence of renting if you wish for to clear this up, but we moved to Gloucester where one of our main distributors had an ninebot tour inside and great facilities so we cooperate now.
3) Exackly we use to run as Ecorover previously but had to close this company because of the frauds that we got, I did mentioned that on the previus email as well, And we actually closed everything down for few month to start everything over again later on.
4) The webiste has been made by one of our webmasters I will send him the link you did provide to make sure everything is clear, we are having so many things on our head to be honest now we mostly supply our distributors than we sell our selfs, we did update our website ver often 2015/2016 when we invested more than 60k to become Exclusive for Ninebot.
5) I know and I am full aware of that, And deeply apologies but I am struggling with Ninebot updates too, z10 have problems and I dont want any more clients to be back after 2-4 weeks , because we then need to order parts etc and it takes time.
6) We had a listing on Ebay and even Paypal have been available for that ... and it has been sold .. we had last one that have arrived, and one of the clients said he dont want it so we had it back on sell ... the price was more than 1800GBP we had to increase the price because we dont know if something wont happen within 4 weeks .. and we provide warranty .
7) I am no self employed and people who work for us are also self employed as we no longer want anyone to cheat on us , i decided to do that, in this case we are still having our team and finance department that work and check everything , make refunds etc but all of us are has self employment, we even had one of our employees that have took our official instagram for Nano and we have no access to it for almost 2 years now .. and trust me, I even created a webiste on fb to make sure people who employ him are aware of his actions, I even contactes NHS where he work in but it has been ignored, we paid him monthly a lot of money and he done this kind of thing
8) I wont be able to provide any details of our clients but I can ask if thyy willing to do so, We supplied hundreds of Ninebots mostly Elites and Minis, now Nanons within UK.
9) I am leaving within is for 15 years now, so In most cases I use Dominic not Dominik
10) I did explained that few points earlier.
11) NHS is free but we are willing to have the best doctor and equipment so we have to pay for it, And this costs a lot, specially that it is serious surgery, I hope everything will be positive, It is our first children and once we received information that there is something wrong with the heart ... it was horrible, But I think positive and Thank you Nicholas.

His reply still leaves some questions to clarify, but I sense its enough for this round. I will chase up my order later and will be pushing for more evidence if I get an unconvincing response.

[Nic]

So we have a genuine website with a high trust rating and domain that has been operating for nearly 4 years and no bad reviews or complaints in internet. He also answered all my questions (mostly). I have no reason at this point to doubt him regardless of how bad things appear. It seem innocent for now, even though it feels a bit strange.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Nic

[Smoother]

@Nic I just happen to have a spare Z10 I'm not using, You can have it if you want. Just send me ooooh say £1,200 via non reversible bank transfer, to my bank account in Nigeria and I'll pop it in the mail to you.  Sound Good?

I no crook, honest, but I can't let you speak to any of the many people who are happy with their purchases from me.  My address is Nelson Mandela House, Bristool, B£Q$73.  It might take a while to ship it because I'm building my new world head quarters in Benghazi, and I have to take my cat to the vet, and my wife will slip on ice tomorrow and break her leg, and robbers broke in last night and stole the lap top I'm typing on.

Do we have a deal? 

[Nic]

10 minutes ago, Smoother said:

@Nic I just happen to have a spare Z10 I'm not using, You can have it if you want. Just send me ooooh say £1,200 via non reversible bank transfer, to my bank account in Nigeria and I'll pop it in the mail to you.  Sound Good?

I no crook, honest, but I can't let you speak to any of the many people who are happy with their purchases from me.  My address is Nelson Mandela House, Bristool, B£Q$73.  It might take a while to ship it because I'm building my new world head quarters in Benghazi, and I have to take my cat to the vet, and my wife will slip on ice tomorrow and break her leg, and robbers broke in last night and stole the lap top I'm typing on.

Do we have a deal? 

I am going to ask him to take a photo of his Gloucester office with him and his self-employed personnel in the picture. I will post back when he responds.

[Shapa]

@Nic, what is the result? I'm tempted to buy a new Z10... Emailed to Dominic (noted that the website is registered to the Polish domain registrar / DNS servers).

Mixed feelings. Asked about the warranty terms (z10 are clearly grey import), waiting for the reply.

I'm actually not far from Gloucester (~40 minutes to drive) and it's not a problem to visit the office

Edited February 25, 2019 by Shapa

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, Shapa said:

@Nic, what is the result? I'm tempted to buy a new Z10... Emailed to Dominic (noted that the website is registered to the Polish domain registrar / DNS servers).

Mixed feelings. Asked about the warranty terms (z10 are clearly grey import), waiting for the reply.

I'm actually not far from Gloucester (~40 minutes to drive) and it's not a problem to visit the office

It seems some people just want to be scammed

 

FFS 

[stephen]

3 hours ago, Shapa said:

@Nic, what is the result? I'm tempted to buy a new Z10... Emailed to Dominic (noted that the website is registered to the Polish domain registrar / DNS servers).

Mixed feelings. Asked about the warranty terms (z10 are clearly grey import), waiting for the reply.

I'm actually not far from Gloucester (~40 minutes to drive) and it's not a problem to visit the office

I don't think nic ever got his z10

[Smoother]

5 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

It seems some people just want to be scammed

 

FFS 

Triple ROFLs

[Nic]

9 hours ago, Shapa said:

@Nic, what is the result? I'm tempted to buy a new Z10... Emailed to Dominic (noted that the website is registered to the Polish domain registrar / DNS servers).

Mixed feelings. Asked about the warranty terms (z10 are clearly grey import), waiting for the reply.

I'm actually not far from Gloucester (~40 minutes to drive) and it's not a problem to visit the office

@Shapa I am still waiting for my Z10 and Dominic is very bad at replying to emails ... he did tell me that there were a lot of issues with the Z10 that he did sell, so he is waiting for fixed versions to be available before selling them again. He hasn't given me a date for when this will be despite me asking several times. His website was down for weeks, but I checked now and it is working again, so that is a good sign.

My guess is that he will wait for the EU certified version to be available in May and that will have all the bugs ironed out. That will be about a year after I placed my order for a Z10.

I am really not bothered about waiting till May as I already have a V8 and the UK hasn't updated its legislation to legalise these vehicles yet, so I am a bit worried to ride my EUC as they are a rare sight (I've not seen anyone else riding one here) and they do attract attention from people. This makes it more likely for the police to stop anyone riding a EUC and I don't really want my V8 confiscated.

I don't think Dominic has real stock of Z10 at present, so if you enquire about this and you find out that he has stock, then please let me know so I can chase him up about this.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Nic

[Smoother]

3 minutes ago, Nic said:

I am a bit worried to ride my EUC as they are a rare sight (I've not seen anyone else riding one here) and they do attract attention from people. This makes it more likely for the police to stop anyone riding a EUC and I don't really want my V8 confiscated.

You're not wrong there.  Just yesterday and last week too, I altered my course to avoid passing a police car  (and by "altered my course, I mean "turned and ran")  I know most cops here aren't bothered, but I don't want to run across one who is.  Paranoid? maybe, but if you want me to ride past every copper I see, just send me your wheel to do it on.

[Nic]

7 minutes ago, Smoother said:

You're not wrong there.  Just yesterday and last week too, I altered my course to avoid passing a police car  (and by "altered my course, I mean "turned and ran")  I know most cops here aren't bothered, but I don't want to run across one who is.  Paranoid? maybe, but if you want me to ride past every copper I see, just send me your wheel to do it on.

If EUCs were much more common as they are in Central London then I would brave it, but here in Edinburgh spotting a EUC is like spotting Nessie ... more people have spotted Nessie. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Nic

[ir_fuel]

If all potential EUC riders other theirs from Dominic/k I'm pretty sure they will stay a rare sight for quite some time  

[Shapa]

Well, finally I chose to buy KS18XL from speedyfeet. Excellent communications.

Z10 - it seems too many issues with the device, a lot of technical problems.

 Living in Swindon, but yes - even electric scooter (Segway ES4) - sometimes unnecessary attention. But at least seeing already a lot of scooters...

Edited February 27, 2019 by Shapa

[Smoother]

On 2/25/2019 at 10:35 PM, Nic said:

If EUCs were much more common as they are in Central London then I would brave it, but here in Edinburgh spotting a EUC is like spotting Nessie ... more people have spotted Nessie. 

I wouldn't trust the scarcity theory to keep you safe. A copper only has to know the road traffic act or be up to speed with current technologies to recognize you as a law breaker. Everywhere I go, I am the only EUC rider and yet this happened last November:  Since I was living nearby, I decided to go to the Guy Fawkes display in Lewes East Sussex.  The whole town and all the roads for miles around were closed for the event (Big event. 7 Guy Fawkes societies going back hundreds of years.  The town has a serious tradition) So I drove to Glynde (Home of the famous Glyndbourne music festival), next village over, and rode my wheel the rest of the way.  When I get to where the road is blocked there is a large police presence.  As I attempt to wheel past these provincial and so therefore "obviously" ignorant of EUCs police men, a copper stops me and says words to the effect of "You know those are illegal? Do you really expect me to let you go down there, into a town crawling with police officers riding that thing?"  I made some feeble apology about not realizing there were so many police, and then he agreed to let me trolley it the rest of the way. Now if he had been a "letter of the law" cop I would have lost my £1,300 wheel that night AND I would have had a long walk back to the car.  That's why I choose, when I'm able, to reduce my visibility to zero when I see a copper or cop car. Even just getting off and placing something between me and them, like a parked car, is enough.

[Unventor]

@Nic if i understand you right you already gave up on this deal, so wait a "bit" longer doesn't really matter.

I do hope you get a wheel at some point. But at a risk of sounding a bit hard here is what I don't understand.

He is running a buisness not a collection fund or charity for people to donate money to. You paid for an item, if he has to refund from personal pocket, the I can't help wounder how is hes capabilities to cope with warranty claims. Now one can open a buisness and let it be idle some years to look legit. 

Since he had a price so far off from real sale value currently, it dhould be better for him to refund your payment. Since a sale of Z10 would cover cost and profit.

I do think it is of you to share an expireance like this. It help to raise alarm bells for others, befpre they sit in same situation.

Now I bought my wheels at what at the time looked fine.

I got my wheels, but after a service expireance that went tits up, I am not letting them handle my baby (KS18L). 

I doubt I would have waited this long as you did. Nevertheless I hope you get a solution, wheel or refund at some point.

[Nic]

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

@Nic if i understand you right you already gave up on this deal, so wait a "bit" longer doesn't really matter.

I do hope you get a wheel at some point. But at a risk of sounding a bit hard here is what I don't understand.

He is running a buisness not a collection fund or charity for people to donate money to. You paid for an item, if he has to refund from personal pocket, the I can't help wounder how is hes capabilities to cope with warranty claims. Now one can open a buisness and let it be idle some years to look legit. 

Since he had a price so far off from real sale value currently, it dhould be better for him to refund your payment. Since a sale of Z10 would cover cost and profit.

I do think it is of you to share an expireance like this. It help to raise alarm bells for others, befpre they sit in same situation.

Now I bought my wheels at what at the time looked fine.

I got my wheels, but after a service expireance that went tits up, I am not letting them handle my baby (KS18L). 

I doubt I would have waited this long as you did. Nevertheless I hope you get a solution, wheel or refund at some point.

Thanks. I do have a V8 that I purchased while waiting for my Z10 to appear. Dominik is running several businesses and EUCs are just a small part of that. I do expect to see my Z10 this summer, but we'll see how that goes.

[Nic]

Segway-Ninebot UK now has Z10 in stock at £1799.00 ...

https://shop.segway.com/uk-en/58/-ninebot-by-segway-z10

In case anyone is wondering ... I just sent Dominic an email about this and I'll know for sure if he is genuine pretty soon.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Nic

[stephen]

6 minutes ago, Nic said:

Segway-Ninebot UK now has Z10 in stock at £1799.00 ...

https://shop.segway.com/uk-en/58/-ninebot-by-segway-z10

In case anyone is wondering ... I just sent Dominic an email about this and I'll know for sure if he is genuine pretty soon.

Have you still not got your z10 @Nic 

[Smoother]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

Have you still not got your z10 @Nic 

The real question is: why didn't HE send you and email with your tracking number?  He's on the internet spending time to advertising wheels to the public and not a peep in your direction, while you are still waiting for yours from last year?  Beggers belief.

[US69]

2 hours ago, Nic said:

Segway-Ninebot UK now has Z10 in stock at £1799.00 ...

https://shop.segway.com/uk-en/58/-ninebot-by-segway-z10

In case anyone is wondering ... I just sent Dominic an email about this and I'll know for sure if he is genuine pretty soon.

You are still thinking you will receive your Z10???

we have the Z10 here in Germany now for over a half year(or longer)....and can send it easily to the UK! (and for a better price!)

 

So if you ever want to have one...contact me by PM :-)

Nope, but Kidding aside: Really Sorry, but this totally looks like Money lost....