Faceplant at 18-mph, on the Tesla

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, Scatcat said:

Let's see... With the GT16:

Falling at nearly zero speed when getting an overcharge BMS cutout.
My own stupidity.
No damage, just a bit of sore pecs for a day or so.

Falling pretty fast when the wheel refused to turn because of a curb hidden in a puddle.
Just bad luck.
Almost no damage, a bit of a sore ankle and minimal abrasion on one knuckle.

Falling at medium speed, when the pedal got stuck on the curb in a turn.
My own stupidity, and a very peculiar winter-tire with strange turning attributes.
No damage except for a broken knee-pad that had to be replaced.

Falling at very low speed in a turn right after starting for the day, when I had an inexplicable BMS cutout.
This happening for the second time should probably have hinted to me that there was something very peculiar about the battery packs.
Got some abrasions just over the belt on the side I fell on, as it was a gliding fall on cobble-stones and gravel the "wrong" way. Nothing serious.

Falling at medium-low speed, when I got a puncture in the middle of a turn.
Probably combo of not noticing in time, and bad luck.
No damage whatsoever.

Falling at high speed because of bad cells and a BMS cutout.
Stupid stupid stupid, should have realized that faults that come and go can come while you ride too...
Trashed helmet, no physical damage, but of course sore muscles for a day or two.

 

So I don't know if I am an animal on the wheel or not. I tend to cruise at 32kph/20mph or so. Slower when there are bikes around me going slower. Faster if there is an open road that I already know well, but seldom faster than about 40kph/25mph.

Looking back at my crashes, I realize that three of the six are because of the V1 version of battery pack. It is not well known, but it had a bug that make the BMS a bit "touchy". That was fixed in the latter packs V2 and forward. So half of the crashes are hardware faults. My fault in this were not shelling out the money to replace the batteries.

The other three of the crashes have been in turns:
 - one stuck pedal,
 - one hidden curb pushing the wheel to the left when I tried to go right,
 - and one instance of ridiculously low pressure in the tire amplifying the turn angle and causing lost grip.

Just goes to show that while you can be as "one with the wheel" as you like, there are always unknowns...

At least I have always been well protected, so I'm still in one piece and still not afraid of the wheel.

Funnily enough (touch wood again), I have so far have had no problems with pot holes, cracks, divots, tree roots, gravel or ice. And a lot of the Gothenburg roads are full of such crap. I do hope that holds true forever....  

That's some rundown! Thanks.

With the hills around me, I'm kind of glad I never got around to getting the GT16. If I ever get a cutout on any wheel I'll probably forever lose confidence in that wheel.

You do realize that you've just cursed yourself with those pot hole comments 

My "animal" commentary was complimentary - go with it 

[RockyTop]

I have an old motocross jacket that I can not find a replacement for. It is made out of a heavy nylon mesh net with 1 inch thick removable pads (trapped in pockets) on the elbows, shoulders, back and chest. It is lite and cool in the summer. I have wrecked 100s of times on dirt and a few times on pavement. I like it much better than Fox. I just wish I could find them new. 

[winterwheel]

27 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I have an old motocross jacket that I can not find a replacement for. It is made out of a heavy nylon mesh net with 1 inch thick removable pads (trapped in pockets) on the elbows, shoulders, back and chest. It is lite and cool in the summer. I have wrecked 100s of times on dirt and a few times on pavement. I like it much better than Fox. I just wish I could find them new. 

That sounds exactly like the jacket I wear. It has three layers, in summer sun I just wear the shell, when it rains I wear the rain layer as well, and in winter the three layers together are plenty even on the coldest days.

[Scatcat]

4 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

Wow!  The GT16 BMS is that bad?  I’ve gotten many overvoltages on my KS wheels but never where they just cut out due to over voltage.  I heard about they charging short circuit because of shitty wiring.  I think the caution with the nothing over 5 amps comes from.  

The charging wiring is pretty thin yes. The BMS V2 and V3 is nothing like the V1 as I understand, or there would be no end to the horror stories. @Yi Chen even sent me a pic pointing out the exact component that was found subpar, and that they fixed in later packs.

[Scatcat]

45 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

That's some rundown! Thanks.

With the hills around me, I'm kind of glad I never got around to getting the GT16. If I ever get a cutout on any wheel I'll probably forever lose confidence in that wheel.

You do realize that you've just cursed yourself with those pot hole comments 

My "animal" commentary was complimentary - go with it 

I said "touch wood"  

Animal huh? Maybe I should go around singing:

"You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel"

AND as I understand it, GT16 V2 and V3 doesn't do BMS cutouts that way.

[Smoother]

11 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I did after all jump up on an EUC that had refused to turn on just the day before...

YES.  IF your wheel is displaying unusual characteristics, DON'T RIDE IT. Or, ride it slowly and cautiously back home, to car, etc.  

Two personal examples:

About 100 yds from home (outbound)  Started getting a scraping sound from the left side of the wheel.  Turned around and went home.  Reason: cracked axle KS14C  If I had kept riding the axle may have snapped completely severing the motor and hall sensor wires, throwing me on my face.

Two days ago, jumped down a low curb 5cm max.  KS16s stumbles twice.  Got off turned it off, turned it on.  Get 4 red lights per side and beeping.  Switched off and on again and its cleared.  Got on and rode cautiously towards car. 

EDIT actually, I forgot.  10 meters later it died and threw me off.  I was going slowly, so it was easy to run off.  Turned it off and back on

 again. Rode up a small  driveway lip 1 to 2cm and motor stutters again.  Got off and walked it to the car.  Reason: Hall sensor wires bad connection at control board.  Control board on its way to retailer for examination. 

Time to get serious about fixing the 14C so I can ride again.

[Scatcat]

4 minutes ago, Smoother said:

YES.  IF your wheel is displaying unusual characteristics, DON'T RIDE IT. Or, ride it slowly and cautiously back home, to car, etc.  

Two personal examples:

About 100 yds from home (outbound)  Started getting a scraping sound from the left side of the wheel.  Turned around and went home.  Reason: cracked axle KS14C  If I had kept riding the axle may have snapped completely severing the motor and hall sensor wires, throwing me on my face.

Two days ago, jumped down a low curb 5cm max.  KS16s stumbles twice.  Got off turned it off, turned it on.  Get 4 red lights per side and beeping.  Switch on and off again and its cleared.  Get on and ride cautiously towards car.  Ride up a small  driveway lip 1 to 2cm and motor stutters again.  Get off and walk it to the car.  Reason: Hall sensor wires bad connection at control board.  Control board on its way to retailer for examination.  Time to get serious about fixing the 14C so I can ride again.

Yes, but some of us are dumb enough not to get it until we actually kiss the bloody asphalt. 

I can always quit my current front-end/UX gig and start working as a crash test dummy...

[Unventor]

29 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

I can always quit my current front-end/UX gig and start working as a crash test dummy...

Darn...how on earth do I get that test-thingy.....The other 2 I almost got covered.

[Marty Backe]

Four days later, and this is what my bruising looks like. Pretty bad. Obviously somehow this part of my arm suffered the impact which traveled up into my shoulder. Another reason why I'm favoring the Demon upper body armor over the Fox. It has superior padding on the side of the arms and along the rib cage. The swelling is slowing decreasing now 

 

[Unventor]

17 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Four days later, and this is what my bruising looks like. Pretty bad. Obviously somehow this part of my arm suffered the impact which traveled up into my shoulder. Another reason why I'm favoring the Demon upper body armor over the Fox. It has superior padding on the side of the arms and along the rib cage. The swelling is slowing decreasing now 

 

Hey..You are copycating my buttock colour. 🤕😏 😁 Another week it will look almost as normal. 

I know it sound lame now. But still try to photo your arm/shoulder in same spot and light. You might be able to make a cool timeshift clip video. I didn't come up with this until it was too late of my injure.

[Professur]

What kills me is that after that wipeout, you then proceeded to ride 15 miles home. I think I'd have phoned a friend.

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, Professur said:

What kills me is that after that wipeout, you then proceeded to ride 15 miles home. I think I'd have phoned a friend.

It was actually only about 10-miles 

[meepmeepmayer]

You think the bruise is from the impact travelling up the arm? Is that even possible? If that's true, the Flexmeters might have prevented a big catastrophe.

Maybe your head (helmet) hit there? It would make spatial sense.

Funny you should have a bruise on the upper inside of your upper arm. Well, as long as it gets better...

[Marty Backe]

14 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You think the bruise is from the impact travelling up the arm? Is that even possible? If that's true, the Flexmeters might have prevented a big catastrophe.

Maybe your head (helmet) hit there? It would make spatial sense.

Funny you should have a bruise on the upper inside of your upper arm. Well, as long as it gets better...

No, the primary impact was on the upper inside of my arm (who knows how). That caused the bruising. The impact traveled further up my arm and into my shoulder where all the pain is. There's zero pain in the bruised area.

[Smoother]

36 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

No, the primary impact was on the upper inside of my arm (who knows how). That caused the bruising. The impact traveled further up my arm and into my shoulder where all the pain is. There's zero pain in the bruised area.

I'm trying to get my head around that too.  I've been trying to bash my head into my bicep like @meepmeepmayer suggested.  Not easy, but with extreme inertia I guess so.  I can't see what else would have impacted that area, given that we all saw that there was nothing else to hit except the flat ground, and its really hard to bruise just a bicep on flat ground.  If I'm not mistaken that's the same arm with the flexmeter with the torn off slider; which would indicate more impact on that side of your body.

So what have we learned here?  Wrap your head in foam padding, or become a Sikh and wear a turban.

[meepmeepmayer]

I guess it's because helmets are hard on the outside. I don't see how it could have been the ground. But who knows, crazy things are apparently possible.

51 minutes ago, Smoother said:

So what have we learned here?  Wrap your head in foam padding, or become a Sikh and wear a turban.

I believe you'd also need a ceremonial knife/dagger then Not sure how well that would have ended up, with one at Marty's hip

-

New idea: put carbon paper (or something functionally similar) all over your body and gear when riding, and in a fall you see where you hit something (and maybe the imprint of what it was)

[RockyTop]

4 hours ago, winterwheel said:

That sounds exactly like the jacket I wear. It has three layers, in summer sun I just wear the shell, when it rains I wear the rain layer as well, and in winter the three layers together are plenty even on the coldest days.

Thanks, I thought I was missing something. I don’t have the outer layer. I bought it off a close out rack for $50 a few years ago. It works great. I will keep my old one for off road and buy a new one for joy rides with the family.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Smoother said:

I'm trying to get my head around that too.  I've been trying to bash my head into my bicep like @meepmeepmayer suggested.  Not easy, but with extreme inertia I guess so.  I can't see what else would have impacted that area, given that we all saw that there was nothing else to hit except the flat ground, and its really hard to bruise just a bicep on flat ground.  If I'm not mistaken that's the same arm with the flexmeter with the torn off slider; which would indicate more impact on that side of your body.

So what have we learned here?  Wrap your head in foam padding, or become a Sikh and wear a turban.

I'm thinking that maybe my right arm ended up being more in a pushup position as I hit the ground. So maybe the Flexmeter actually ended up impacting my bicep area. Do a deep pushup and you'll see that the forearm can just about contact your upper arm. Add about 15-mph into the mix and I'm sure both parts of the arm will mush together.

[Professur]

Mush together .... yeah, there's a mental image to inspire confidence in nubie riders.

[Scatcat]

15 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm thinking that maybe my right arm ended up being more in a pushup position as I hit the ground. So maybe the Flexmeter actually ended up impacting my bicep area. Do a deep pushup and you'll see that the forearm can just about contact your upper arm. Add about 15-mph into the mix and I'm sure both parts of the arm will mush together.

When you fall at that speed, there are multiple ways you can get seriously bruised. Your flexmeter may well have slapped your upper arm, or you may have suffered some internal bleeding just because of the stress on the muscles, the arm may have slapped against your ribs. There are multiple explanations that could explain the bruise.

A bruise in the extremities, unless painful or pulsating/swelling, isn't much to worry about. I remember in high school when a guy in my class took a bad fall, that his arm swelled up and started pulsating. He had a rupture in a major artery. Not immediately life threatening, but well beyond what you go home and sleep off. So off to the doctor he went. No breakages, and no immediate need for surgery, but he had to stay under observation for a while.

[Rehab1]

5 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Since @Rehab1 punted on my Fox questions I'm assuming that their gear has inferior padding. I leaning more strongly towards the Demon stuff now. The padding quality and coverage seems superior.

 

Wow I did punt! Busy day. My sincere apologizes. 

Ok I went home and picked up my Fox elbow protectors and took some photos. The actual internal elbow padding is suboptimal in my option but I’ve never tested it in the field. The black plastic exoskeletal structure is appropriate. 

The 3/16” thick ‘red’ elbow padding is a semi-rigid injection molded ‘ribbed’ material with very little inherent shock absorption characteristics. With a hard enough impact I’m sure you would end up with little divots throughout the skin of your elbow and possible abrasions. Is the Fox Titan’s  padding designed in this fashion to evenly spread out the forces upon impact. Possibly. 

 

 

I have not evaluated the Demons but hopefully the critical areas of concern incorporate enhanced shock absorbing material.

I am sticking with my modified Titans for now but after previous discussions with members on the forum I will be fabricating a plastic ‘turtle shell’ cover that will fit over the foam and be riveted to the elbow protectors’s construct. This way if I do need to slide during a fall the foam won’t grab the asphalt/concrete surface.

 

 

 

[Elder Meat]

I mentioned the Xion stuff before. More protection than the Demon but style-wise you gotta wear something over it. 

 

[Marty Backe]

37 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Wow I did punt! Busy day. My sincere apologizes. 

Ok I went home and picked up my Fox elbow protectors and took some photos. The actual internal elbow padding is suboptimal in my option but I’ve never tested it in the field. The black plastic exoskeletal structure is appropriate. 

The 3/16” thick ‘red’ elbow padding is a semi-rigid injection molded ‘ribbed’ material with very little inherent shock absorption characteristics. With a hard enough impact I’m sure you would end up with little divots throughout the skin of your elbow and possible abrasions. Is the Fox Titan’s  padding designed in this fashion to evenly spread out the forces upon impact. Possibly. 

I have not evaluated the Demons but hopefully the critical areas of concern incorporate enhanced shock absorbing material.

I am sticking with my modified Titans for now but after previous discussions with members on the forum I will be fabricating a plastic ‘turtle shell’ cover that will fit over the foam and be riveted to the elbow protectors’s construct. This way if I do need to slide during a fall the foam won’t grab the asphalt/concrete surface.

Thanks for the additional input. It really does help, and in my case it's steering me away from the Fox. I think my kneepads and Flexmeters provide the necessary sliding components, but I really want the thick padding in the shoulders, arms, and ribs. The Demon X2 provides that.

Thanks Dan.

[Rehab1]

23 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Thanks for the additional input. It really does help, and in my case it's steering me away from the Fox. I think my kneepads and Flexmeters provide the necessary sliding components, but I really want the thick padding in the shoulders, arms, and ribs. The Demon X2 provides that.

Thanks Dan.

Your welcome. With your warm climate you shouldn’t have to wear a coat this time of year., in my neck of the woods I need protection that can be worn over a coat. Looking forward to seeing your new gear.

BTW awesome looking arm rainbow. Hope your feeling better.

[Unventor]

@Rehab1 that red padding looks similar to what they advertise on the Ruroc helmets as a shock absorbing material. It is different to D30 but acts in the same way. As far as I understand it is supposed to transfer away from impact zone.

https://www.ruroc.com/en/rg1-dx-helmets/533-rg1-dx-core.html

They call this Rheon you see this as the blue lines a bit down on the helmet page.