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What do we actually want? (Good PEV/EUC regulation proposals)


meepmeepmayer
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Inspired by this thread, what kind of rules of the road regulation do we actually want for personal electric vehicles (PEVs), maybe one should simply call them small vehicles (SVs) because they don't strictly have to be electric, in general, and electric unicycles (EUCs) in particular?

Let's collect and discuss some ideas.

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A proposal. Please don't take everything literal or try to find a loophole. It's a general framework trying to be open to everything. Things will be missing. Please add and modify:efee47c9c8:

Goal: The regulation must allow to use the full potential of all existing and future possible PEVs, of course without undue consequences for others.

Base:

  1. There are pedestrians, there are small vehicles/PEVs (including bicycles), and there are cars/motorbikes/everything bigger. No separate rules for bicycles and PEVs. No arbitrary disctinction between motorized and non-motorized. What a bicycle is allowed to do, a PEV is allowed to do, and vice versa. Bike paths are now PEV paths, etc.
  2. No distinction between PEVs. Future vehicles must be included and allowed by default with general rules (regarding their weight, size, noise...). No "ebike is ok, scooter type is ok, ..." individual rules that by default exclude future developments.
  3. What differentiates between PEVs and "real" cars is their potential danger to others. Mainly weight and physical size. Not so much top speed or "motorized" or whatever.
  4. In that vein: It's not the job of regulation to protect people from themselves. It is to protect others from them.
  5. Same rules as for everyone else. Speed limits, ride safe, no/low alcohol, be responsible, etc.
  6. Rules based on science and empiric experience, not fears, not preemptively.
  7. Global rules (country- or statewide). No special crap for every dumb town.
  8. If people don't follow the rules, that's what the police is for. Same as with cars.

Rules:

  1. PEVs are allowed on bike paths or the road (like bicycles now).
  2. In general, the sidewalk is for pedestrians only. PEVs are allowed on sidewalks if they go around walking speed or are in nobody's way. (Naturally, something like a EUC can be less problematic on sidewalks than a big scooter, so we might have to differentiate somehow.) Pedestrians always have priority there.
  3. No built in (technical) speed limits. A PEV can go as fast as it can. If someone is speeding, that problem has been solved for speeding cars. Same rules for everyone.
    As long as 250kph 2 ton SUVs or 25 ton semi trucks have no such restriction anywhere, it's completely unacceptable for PEVs.
  4. No built in other technical restrictions, like limiting motor power.
    Same argument as above. 2 tons cars have none. End of argument.
  5. No stupid technical restrictions that ban entire categories.
    For example, here in Germany, from the time when vehicles had at least 2 wheels, vehicles should have two independent brake systems. I don't have to tell you EUC riders that's stupid:efee8319ab:
  6. No license requirement for PEVs.
    One can talk about splitting a license between a theoretical one (written test, that everyone from a bike up should but must not have, just make it a school class+test) and a practical car license being taught in a big vehicle.
  7. No age requirement for PEVs.
    If 6yo girl want to go along on daddy's msuper on some 15kph group ride, let her! It's the parents job not to let kids ride 100kph scooters.
  8. No helmet requirement.
    Hinders biking being viable (same rules for PEVs and bikes), hinders dockless scooters being viable. Not the regulations job to protect the rider. Adults are responsible for their kids. More and more people use helmets anyways.
  9. Freeways, Autobahns, and other comparable (controlled access) roads (maybe with increased speed limit) are completely off-limits to PEVs. Cars+ only. Like it is now. Way to dangerous otherwise. No unwanted surprises for cars there.

Changes to environment:

  1. Every side of every city block gets at least one parking spot re-dedicated to bicycles, dockless scooters, all other PEVs. Include stands.
  2. Bike (PEV) paths must get much better. A good bike lane is at least 1.5m wide (5ft) for one direction and at least a car lane width for PEV traffic in two directions.
  3. Bike lanes should be physically separated whenever possible (where they exist or are needed in the first place). Bollards, green strips, whatever. No surprise semis from behind. No paint on the side of car roads.
  4. Mandatory bike lane on every road with more than one car lane in one direction. Obviously, the space is there.
  5. If there's not enough space for a bike lane then, remove cars parking curbside and use the space for one (think in the city).
  6. If there's still no space, use a car lane (because then there must be more than one).
  7. No long detours for bike paths compared to car roads (think in the countryside).
  8. If car crashes with PEVs turn out to be a problem in the city, mandatory reduced car speed limit on any road without a physically separated bike lane. E.g. 50kph->30kph (German example numbers).
  9. If car crashes with PEVs turn out to be a problem on highways, mandatory reduced car speed limit on any road without a physically separated bike lane. E.g. 100kph->70kph (German example numbers).
  10. If accidents with semi-trucks turn out to be a problem, ban trucks from the city unless they deliver there or have no other way to reach their destination.
  11. Ban "Right on red" everywhere.
  12. (The last four can be summed up as: If cars are a problem, restrict the cars, not us!)
  13. Mandatory: all intersections with a pedestrian light (think city) go from a 2-cycle to a 3-cycle. Instead of one direction - the other direction, it is one direction - all cars must stop and all directions clear for pedestrians and PEVs - the other direction. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_scramble
    This is mainly for pedestrians, to save them from the indignity of always having to wait for up to two light durations if they must cross diagonally and just missed their light. Cars never have to do that! One light max for them!
    But PEVs can benefit from this rule, too. Lets them get a headstart if a semi-truck is next to them, etc. Much safer.

Not included are stuff like safety, quality, lights, etc. - not so strictly "rules of the road" things. But add anything you like.

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What do you say?:efee47c9c8:

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I like all, maybe too optimist about speed, but good argued. I´m in a association demanding not be limited to 25kmh and be allowed in the same roads that bikes are. Claiming for a 40 km h speed limit

40.jpg

Edited by Demargon
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40 is too slow. One can't even keep up with cars in the city. Especially scooters and bikes have a much higher ceiling, why limit them? Nobody is forced to go that fast.

This seems to be a "at least it won't be worse" compromise. Maybe this will be a start. But there's always the danger that any further improvement will be brushed aside with "but you already got enough". I guess 40 is an optimistic goal nowadays. We'll see how this works out:efee47c9c8:

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Speed kills. As an example, there is no regulation governing the use of shopping carts, people bump into each other all the time, they get parked blocking entire food aisles, and even occasionally get lose in the parking lot going downhill, and yet no one seems to get killed or even injured by them. Why is that?

In my opinion, regulate the speed downward, then go up from there. In practice, your biggest threat if you are a pedestrian is a tall wall moving down the street at >25 mph, followed by a car at half the height. Bicycles, eScooters, and EUCs are gnats compared to trucks.

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So as not to have problems with the rules for bicycles i would accept a speed limit of arround 25 - 30kph on bicycle lanes.

I would recommend 50kph on roads like 50ccm scooter with the advantage of cheap insurruance like 50ccm. And for vehicles with the number plate to ride 50kph you should have to wear a helmet.

Faster vehicles should be possible, but with more expensive insurrance like motorcycles.

And you counted autobahnen (highways)... NO!!! Currently you have to drive at least 60 kph to drive on autobahnen, i know in the the future eucs are able to drive this speed and much more, but its to dangerous... Just imagine you get passed by a 200kph fast car, the strong wind, maybe you are scared of the suddenly passing fast car.... NO! autobahnen

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22 minutes ago, MaiKi said:

And you counted autobahnen (highways)... NO!!! Currently you have to drive at least 60 kph to drive on autobahnen, i know in the the future eucs are able to drive this speed and much more, but its to dangerous... Just imagine you get passed by a 200kph fast car, the strong wind, maybe you are scared of the suddenly passing fast car.... NO! autobahnen

I said NO PEVs of any kind on the Autobahn, never ever:efee47c9c8: Everything else seems crazy.

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3 hours ago, MaiKi said:

.And for vehicles with the number plate to ride 50kph you should have to wear a helmet.

 

I would support mandatory helmet usage with cars that go faster than 50 kph. Lots of auto deaths due to brain damage, and if it saves juuuust one life, then shouldn't that be reason enough?

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4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I said NO PEVs of any kind on the Autobahn, never ever:efee47c9c8: Everything else seems crazy.

Oh im sorry, i must read wrong... It was a bit to late :huh::sleep1: 

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

I would support mandatory helmet usage with cars that go faster than 50 kph. Lots of auto deaths due to brain damage, and if it saves juuuust one life, then shouldn't that be reason enough?

Im not sure if you are pro helmet @~50kph or con.

Every single life is important, so you are in need for helmets? :confused1:

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I agree with everything the OP says. In general it just boils down to treating EUCs in the exact same way as regular bicycles and/or e-bikes. There should be NO discrimination in the operation of use between the two, and if anything an EUC should be permitted in more places than bikes since EUC physically take up less space.

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