Guidelines on what to or not to share online? (RE: 51km/h fall that went viral on Spanish media)

[travsformation]

2 hours ago, Scatcat said:

I was in Barcelona in September. Now I want to go back. Wine, beer, food, and enough undulating bends to make your heart go booooom!  

Yeah, it's hard not to like! And about the undulating bends, you'd love my neighbourhood! (Although with the kind of hills there are, I'd advise against anything with less than an 1800W motor) 😂

 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

Haha, looks like you're stuck in your neighborhood. High time for a 1600Wh wheel

[travsformation]

12 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Haha, looks like you're stuck in your neighborhood. High time for a 1600Wh wheel

Hahaha yeah, the main road is curvy, has no hard shoulder and people drive like they're being chased by a pack of ware wolves! I can go further taking back roads and dirt tracks, but the V8 doesn't have the range for that....the 18XL will certainly open up a ton of options! Patience is said to be a virtue, but damn is it hard to wait! 

[Unventor]

17 hours ago, travsformation said:

Yeah, it's hard not to like! And about the undulating bends, you'd love my neighbourhood! (Although with the kind of hills there are, I'd advise against anything with less than an 1800W motor) 😂

 

 

Blasphemy...the earth is flat period 😁 come to Denmark and you will see what I am taking about. 

We just need Carlsberg to do an EUC 😎

Note: Really like that Benny Hill track to this type of video.

[winterwheel]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:47 AM, Scatcat said:

we have to respect the dangers of going about three times as fast as the unassisted human body is capable

The unassisted human body is capable of going 40+ km per hour.

[Elder Meat]

The human body is easily capable of accelerating at 9.8 meters per second squared and reaching speeds well in excess of 40 kph.

[Mono]

1 hour ago, winterwheel said:

The unassisted human body is capable of going 40+ km per hour.

Very few human bodies are after lots and lots of training. Most are not.

[winterwheel]

The point being made was that wheels carry us three times faster than the unassisted human body is capable of going.

That is incorrect, regardless of whether most individuals have the fitness level to reach those speeds.

[Mono]

On 12/3/2018 at 2:56 PM, Unventor said:

@travsformation only time will tell how EUCs fit into traffic in future. To me they seem closer to a moped than a bicycle. 

The big difference here is though the propulsion aka a non- human powered motor. This means you can have power without the means and understanding the implications of apply this.

WIth the advent of e-bikes and electric kick scooters we are seeing the motorized vs human powered distinction for light vehicles quickly evaporating in front of our eyes right now. As long as weight and speed are limited, these are functionally closer to bicycles than to mopeds. Due to their inherent instability, I can't see the functional sweet spot of EUCs speed- and weight-wise above e-bikes.

[Unventor]

Well it is rather simple. Do these two tests and then we argue who is right or wrong. Let's just do this at hmmm 30kmh. Step off you wheel and consider this as a sliding crash. Then do the same and drive into a wall at same speed. Now you know the difference is a crash you might slide out your energy and well the wall is when you feel high impact in short timespan. Now lets then discuss how you feel...ohh remember opersite traffic might travel towards you at 50kmh..But in Sweden statistics say 30%+ regularly drive above speed limits in their car. If you miss the old site car...look out for bus. You just might weave back and fourth. 

Now I argue still time and place for anything. Public traffic is just not a game. You might think this is a silly argument, I dare you to test it out. Preferable unprotected.....in an empty space. I don't want to you hurt innocent bystanders.

Are you getting the point yet? 

Speed needs to be respected. No matter how fun or safe you feel.

[Mono]

3 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Are you getting the point yet? 

No, sorry, in case you were addressing my post I have no idea what you are talking about.

I believe that in most European countries e-bikes are limited to 25km/h at powered operation and I can't see many good reasons justifying that EUCs should have a higher speed limit.

[Unventor]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

No, sorry, in case you were addressing my post I have no idea what you are talking about.

I believe that in most European countries e-bikes are limited to 25km/h at powered operation and I can't see many good reasons justifying that EUCs should have a higher speed limit.

I were addressing those that think 30+ kmh is a natural and safe speed to go for a human body. And they have the skills to ignore normal traffic rules. 

This post you wrote came as I were typing mine. 

[Mono]

6 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I were addressing those that think 30+ kmh is a natural and safe speed to go for a human body. And they have the skills to ignore normal traffic rules. 

This post you wrote came as I were typing mine. 

RIght, sorry, could have figure that out by myself 

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, Elder Meat said:

The human body is easily capable of accelerating at 9.8 meters per second squared and reaching speeds well in excess of 40 kph.

Very wrong. 40kph is almost 25MPH. The fastest human recorded could create a burst of speed that hit 27.8 MPH or 44.6 kph. It takes around 40-50meters to even build up to a 40kph speed and less than 1% of the human population can do it.

I’ve raced the guy that hit 44.6kph and I’ve run at 40kph. Falling, or even stepping off an EUC at those speeds is not possible to run out, even for me. You would need to generate an almost instantaneous burst of speed, a huge amount of force, in your initial ground contact to build up to 40kph, something no human can do ( it takes 40-50meters to build up to that speed, much more than one-two steps).

At best, even though I can run faster than 40kph, stepping off an EUC at those speeds I could manage three, maybe four steps before my momentum has me plummeting to the ground. The average person wouldn’t even be able to take two steps, their legs wouldn’t generate enough counter force to prevent from collapsing on the very first foot that lands. 

One more tidbit: the average human can sprint at 15.9 mph or 25.5 kph. Which means that even stepping off at 25kph, which seems slow, most humans wouldn’t be able to run that off. 

[winterwheel]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Very wrong. 40kph is almost 25MPH. The fastest human recorded could create a burst of speed that hit 27.8 MPH or 44.6 kph. It takes around 40-50meters to even build up to a 40kph speed and less than 1% of the human population can do it.

I’ve raced the guy that hit 44.6kph and I’ve run at 40kph. Falling, or even stepping off an EUC at those speeds is not possible to run out, even for me. You would need to generate an almost instantaneous burst of speed, a huge amount of force, in your initial ground contact to build up to 40kph, something no human can do ( it takes 40-50meters to build up to that speed, much more than one-two steps).

At best, even though I can run faster than 40kph, stepping off an EUC at those speeds I could manage three, maybe four steps before my momentum has me plummeting to the ground. The average person wouldn’t even be able to take two steps, their legs wouldn’t generate enough counter force to prevent from collapsing on the very first foot that lands. 

One more tidbit: the average human can sprint at 15.9 mph or 25.5 kph. Which means that even stepping off at 25kph, which seems slow, most humans wouldn’t be able to run that off. 

The point I was addressing is how serious is the  danger inherent in the speed of an electric unicycle. I assess the level of danger inherent in my speed of travel to be about the same as if I were to fall while running at the speed of a high level sprinter, whatever that means. For me that is very different mental model than the slightly hysterical sounding travelling "three times as fast as the human body is capable of".

None of which is to say I travel without fear; I fall regularly, I hate it every single time when it happens, even when I am going 1km/h. 

 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

 

I believe that in most European countries e-bikes are limited to 25km/h at powered operation and I can't see many good reasons justifying that EUCs should have a higher speed limit.

The eBike's motor can assist up to 25km/h and then it's up to you to pedal to get to 40km/h or more, as much as you can.

Now the question is, should it be the same for EUCs? Because you can't pedal an EUC to go faster once you reach the 25km/h

Actually, in Ireland in many places the bicycles share the same lane as the bus, going at 25km/h is not that safe in this case. Buses stick to your back...

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

I believe that in most European countries e-bikes are limited to 25km/h at powered operation and I can't see many good reasons justifying that EUCs should have a higher speed limit.

That has nothing to do with safety. That has to do with making sure they stay useless and niche/"recreational" (= not taken seriously as transportation). Heaven forbid someone might replace a car with a faster ebike! Germany says no!

Any discussion on this based on a 25kph limit somewhere is pointless. But it's interesting you fall for this envy/anchoring trick - "Bikes are limited so everything else must be, too". "Something uses 25kph so this must be a good number.". Load of BS.

[Mono]

2 minutes ago, Jean Dublin said:

The eBike's motor can assist up to 25km/h and then it's up to you to pedal to get to 40km/h or more, as much as you can.

Right, as for any bicycle, and as for any bicycle, most people get rarely if ever close to 40km/h. It is not so much a matter whether a bicycle can go 40km/h, but whether this is a speed attained by many people for long periods of time.

2 minutes ago, Jean Dublin said:

Now the question is, should it be the same for EUCs? Because you can't ledan an EUC to go faster than that once you reach the 25km/h

I don't see many good reasons why it should not be the same for EUCs, in particular as they are intrinsically less safe than bicycles. Of course it is possible to introduce a one-wheeled vehicle category that goes faster with obligatory type approval, driving licence, insurance, etc.

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

I would say 45km/h is a good limit as it's about the speed most city roads allow as a maximum. Otherwise you are a problem for other vehicles... (And because it's the real max speed of my 18L )

It's also the max speed that in Ireland the Tax Registration Office is using to say that eRideables under that top speed don't need to be Registered.

Good video on the topic about the legality of PEVs in Ireland (still a grey area as some still see them as illegal under current law)

 

[travsformation]

38 minutes ago, Elder Meat said:

The human body is easily capable of accelerating at 9.8 meters per second squared and reaching speeds well in excess of 40 kph.

From the right altitude and with gravity on our side, I agree we can achieve considerable speeds

As to outrunning my wheel at 40 kph, the only realistic scenario I can envision is me falling flat on my face and my balls outrunning my body...

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Jean Dublin said:

Otherwise you are a problem for other vehicles...

I guess you mean like bicycles are considered "a problem for other vehicles". I think this attitude should change and it likely will change.

[Mono]

2 hours ago, Jean Dublin said:

Actually, in Ireland in many places the bicycles share the same lane as the bus, going at 25km/h is not that safe in this case.

So do you have any idea how many cyclists have died last year in Ireland, because they went "too slow" and were hence run over by a bus?

It is a simple empirical question for which we currently have a large real life study running in Europe. Which e-bikes are safer, pedelecs with a speed limit of 25km/h or speed-pedelecs with a speed limit of 45km/h and mandatory helmet. I believe the data suggest it is rather the former, but as we may not have enough data as of now (fortunately not enough people died), we can probably be more assertive about it in a few years from now.

[Scatcat]

Actually, when writing "three times the speed the unassisted human body is capable of", I did a mistake. I should have said average human body, and sustained speed. While some (very) quick people can top 40kph, your typical jogger won't often top 15kph, most will jog at significantly lower speeds than that. If you take a sprint at 30-40kph and fall on any abrasive, hard surface, you will most certainly not like it...

But be that as it may. The kinetic formula is still true, and at higher speeds the forces to deal with are much higher.

@Jean Dublin that picture! Aaaah! If that picture is at anything higher than 15kph, then the bus driver is an idiot! If that biker falls, the bus driver must first recognize it, then clutch and brake. Odds are the biker will be under the bus by then, and the bus driver will have killed or injured a person because of his/her own stressed behavior in traffic.

I don't know how it is in Ireland, but here in Sweden we have a rule that it is always (100% of the time, outside overtake situations) the one behind that is responsible for an accident if something happens. A rule that is meant to foster more reasonable intervals in traffic.

A lot of people of course neglect that anyways, but at least there is no contest about who was in the wrong. And police may actually stop you if you're nosing up into someones butt to smell the farts that way. If you're on a multi-lane road, and the one behind is overtaking in the outer lane, it is not as clear cut. But that is an exception to the rule.

We also have a rule at marked crossing of pedestrians, where the pedestrian has the right of way. That rule has two decades on its clock by now, and has actually changed the behavior of car drivers significantly. Nowadays, people actually stop to let you over... mostly  

[Scatcat]

14 hours ago, travsformation said:

Yeah, it's hard not to like! And about the undulating bends, you'd love my neighbourhood! (Although with the kind of hills there are, I'd advise against anything with less than an 1800W motor) 😂

 

 

Lovely!

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, Scatcat said:

Actually, when writing "three times the speed the unassisted human body is capable of", I did a mistake. I should have said average human body, and sustained speed. While some (very) quick people can top 40kph, your typical jogger won't often top 15kph, most will jog at significantly lower speeds than that. If you take a sprint at 30-40kph and fall on any abrasive, hard surface, you will most certainly not like it...

But be that as it may. The kinetic formula is still true, and at higher speeds the forces to deal with are much higher.

@Jean Dublin that picture! Aaaah! If that picture is at anything higher than 15kph, then the bus driver is an idiot! If that biker falls, the bus driver must first recognize it, then clutch and brake. Odds are the biker will be under the bus by then, and the bus driver will have killed or injured a person because of his/her own stressed behavior in traffic.

I don't know how it is in Ireland, but here in Sweden we have a rule that it is always (100% of the time, outside overtake situations) the one behind that is responsible for an accident if something happens. A rule that is meant to foster more reasonable intervals in traffic.

A lot of people of course neglect that anyways, but at least there is no contest about who was in the wrong. And police may actually stop you if you're nosing up into someones butt to smell the farts that way. If you're on a multi-lane road, and the one behind is overtaking in the outer lane, it is not as clear cut. But that is an exception to the rule.

We also have a rule at marked crossing of pedestrians, where the pedestrian has the right of way. That rule has two decades on its clock by now, and has actually changed the behavior of car drivers significantly. Nowadays, people actually stop to let you over... mostly  

The biker has the foot on the ground. Looking at the marking proberly at a traffic light.