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Guidelines on what to or not to share online? (RE: 51km/h fall that went viral on Spanish media)


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Hi all,

I am wondering, what is OK to share on social media and Youtube?

Now that these things can reach speeds of up to 60km/h (37mph), is it OK to share videos of ourselves riding at such speeds?
 - They could be used in campaigns against electric unicycle and other eRideables, arguing that they go too fast and must be forbidden to use in public spaces.

Is it OK to share falls for educational purpose?
 - Again, they could be used to "demonstrate how unsafe" these things are. (I'm not saying they are, it's irony)

Is it OK to share videos of ourselves riding at high enough speeds on sidewalks when there is people around, passing them quite close?

These are all things that we should not do in the first place, but sometimes they happen.

Looking forward to your comments.


I had the idea of opening this to discussion after seeing a similar discussion happening on this topic under the Rockwell section: ( @Scatcat makes some good points )

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not on one side or the other, I respect both opinions as both have good arguments.

 

Edited by Jean Dublin
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People will always find an excuse against something new, anecdotal evidence (in the form of "bad" videos etc.) or not (see: everything else, every moral panic ever, ...). Completely pointless to kneecap and censor our own discussions to our detriment, that's not going to help anyways. In fact, it is going to harm us.

In my opinion, any exposure (no matter how negative) is a big net positive for us. "I don't care what the newspapers say about me as long as they spell my name right" is the right approach.

Videos of high-speed riding on crowded sidewalks only make clear we need better bike/PEV infrastructure. Videos of 60kph riding make clear we can't just be sidelined so neither cars or pedestrians are bothered, because else we're going to bother both of them. And so on - there's something for people to learn from pretty much any behavior, good or bad. But only if the behavior exists. That means: if people see it!

People don't react to things they are told, they react to things they experience themselves (seeing a video or TV is close). If they see something exists, their subconscious knows it isn't going away and there are real people behind this. This will make them accept and deal with a situation instead of trying to prevent it (bans!) - because it's too late now, it's too big now, it's too unpredictable now what would happen if they instigate a power struggle. Hiding makes people think there will be no problem banning or limiting something because there's no real people behind it.

Just look what lead to widespread scooter adoption. Spamming the sidewalks with dockless scooters, whether people like it or not, and the popularity proving there's a legitimate interest of enough people behind it.

"Scaring" people (in lack of a better term) with EUC drive-bys and scooter purse-snatching is as nearly as good as any positive video. Add some videos of happy 6yo kids in Paris riding on 250+ person group rides for goodwill and to make clear that the bad stuff is the exception.

This is how the world, history, the human mind work(ed). You don't get anywhere by asking in advance (unless you know it works, we know it doesn't for PEVs), you get there by making clear you have legitimate interests and (most importantly) you aren't going away, it's too late for that.

So: If you want to discuss something, discuss it. Do not hesitate because of what other people might think. You're not helping anyone with this.

The only reason where something should not be discussed is for personal/privacy reasons, like sharing a video of someone else's crash or whatever behavior when they don't want that. That should be obvious.

Other than that, any exposure is good and any lack of exposure is bad. Skirting by with "nobody even knows EUCs exist" is a short-term plan at best. I do understand there's no need to rush or be careless or unstrategic, and that some people may hope EUCs will never find widespread adoption and they will stay invisible. But that won't work for more than a few years.

That's how I see it:efee47c9c8:

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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There's nothing wrong with going extremely slow on crowded sidewalks. Indeed, when I'm feeling sociable I will do so and stop and chat with whomever I want to. 

Don't be an ass and blast by pedestrians. My philosopher, developed over the past few years after some thought, is that pedestrians are 100% in the right at all times (although that guy who knocked me off my EUC while I was nearly stopped still pisses me off). Doesn't matter where the pedestrian is, or what you are driving, assume the pedestrian is 100% right. It pains me to say this, but let's say the drunk pedestrian is wearing black and runs into you; I still think the pedestrian is in the right so ride your EUC accordingly.

Therefore, riding an EUC as 51kmh can be perfectly safe should you do so in areas that are appropriately away from others, and also riding at 12 kmh may be too fast should you do so in, say, a crowded mall. Go the same speed as the walkers; you should absolutely be able to ride at nearly zero speed without drama, and be able to hop off while pulling out the trolley handle in one cool motion like me.

I also don't frown on riding on the sidewalk, because like I keep saying;

"Riding on the street is not safe because the road is wide, the cars go fast, and there's no bicycle lane."

Hell, even the sidewalk isn't particularly safe to pedestrians due to driveways intersecting the sidewalk; ride long enough and you'll see a surprising number of pedestrians get hit on driveways.

Edited by LanghamP
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Seriously, this is the type of video I would like to see: controlled and curteous power. 

Not reckless display of ability(?) in a crowded environment.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Scatcat said:

@meepmeepmayer I understand what you're saying. But I would prefer if the majority of what people see makes them curious rather than hostile.

That's going to be the case anyways. The overwhelming mass of EUC (or PEV) content is positive, just check YouTube:efee47c9c8: One single scare video isn't going to change anyone's mind. People who need something or reasons to be afraid of something will find it anyways. Every single person (minus one confused grandma) that ever showed a reaction to me riding was positive. Ride and be seen. In real life or on video.

Nothing I said means one should act like an asshole. But if someone else (or oneself) does, I still think hiding it is detrimental if something can be learned from it (both by us and by "observers").

@travsformation You're not wrong anywhere.  But that only sounds like trying to delay regulation, head in the sand style. Maybe that will work in some special cases short term, but what kind of strategy is that?

Do you really think rules that allow the full potential of PEVs (from going walking speed along and talking with a pedestrian, to30kph on a bike path, right to 100kph on a highway, with the same device, no car license needed, no unnecessary limitations) would ever be made just from the lack of bad perceived precedent? Never in a thousand years!

I'd rather have people know PEVs are not just recreational devices from some video showing one speeding 60kph on a road than keeping them in their ignorance from the lack of exposure.

Seriously, that video probably did more for people's discussion and realization what scooters can be and do than any "good" content that would never be seen by the same people. The taxi driver example is a great one. More and more people will ask "But why can he do X if I can't even do Y?". Never mind some initial outrage. Yes, it may backfire, but what is the alternative? Just hope everything will be good? When did that ever work? We have some precedent that at best politicians are ignoring PEVs and at worst are sabotaging and delaying them for car and other lobby reasons.

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I guess to summarize my point, desensitizing people as quickly as possible may be the most fruitful approach. One way or the other, good or bad.

As soon as there are so many PEVs that people will differentiate between PEVs and dickheads on PEVs, we're good. Before that point, what will break the association between PEVs in general and bad PEV examples? Someone will always be able to find or make up such a bad (potential) example. That's why I think hiding anything won't help.

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10 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I guess to summarize my point, desensitizing people as quickly as possible may be the most fruitful approach. One way or the other, good or bad.

As soon as there are so many PEVs that people will differentiate between PEVs and dickheads on PEVs, we're good. Before that point, what will break the association between PEVs in general and bad PEV examples? Someone will always be able to find or make up such a bad (potential) example. That's why I think hiding anything won't help.

Very well put. Hard to disagree with that ;)

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If anything, videos like this should absolutely be shared so we can collectively analyze what went wrong and ask follow up questions so we can see a pattern of what body part gets injured most and ways we can better protect ourselves. 

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1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

The kind of media attention that would get EUC’s banned isn’t this. 

Totally agree. This video is more likely to cause either sympathy or trigger the "stupid alarm". The ones that get bad media attention are more likely to be those involving a Z10 swerving between cars at top speed in NYC traffic... :efef2e0fff:

1 hour ago, Darrell Wesh said:

If anything, videos like this should absolutely be shared so we can collectively analyze what went wrong and ask follow up questions so we can see a pattern of what body part gets injured most and ways we can better protect ourselves.

Good point. On the subject of videos like this generating debate, it's been mentioned in that thread that the injured party doesn't seem to be aware of how a wheel works, e.g., overlean near top speed, loss of torque, etc. I've been accused of overthinking a fair share in my life, but am glad I asked around and did my research about how EUC motors work, or I'm sure I would have saluted the floor face first more than once... (especially when my wheel's top speed is 30 km/h....). Glad I'm inquisitive by nature and have such a wealth of valuable information (and patient forum members) to learn from :)

Edited by travsformation
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7 hours ago, pico said:

Seriously, this is the type of video I would like to see: controlled and curteous power. 

His moves sometimes look awkward and clumsy, not very good at advertising. Also doing tricks at the pavement is bad idea

Edited by maxkan
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9 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I’m not understanding what the problem is here? 

To clarify, I'm not on one side or the other, I respect both opinions as both have good arguments.

People's and politicians' perception/opinion of small EVs is affected by what they hear on the news, and that affects decision making.

I like learning from videos like these, they are the kind of videos that stop people from doing the same mistakes. So I don't want them to be censored either.

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I say don't hide it, put everything out there. It could help someone, I think it's good to see what happens when someone pushes too far. It's bad and other riders should know that. There's videos of guys killing themselves on motorcycles, cars, forklifts etc and all those products are readily available. 

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2 hours ago, kasenutty said:

I say don't hide it, put everything out there. It could help someone, I think it's good to see what happens when someone pushes too far. It's bad and other riders should know that. There's videos of guys killing themselves on motorcycles, cars, forklifts etc and all those products are readily available. 

Yeah. Except all those vehicles have been around for more than a century in most cases.

Remember the beginning of the car, where in some places there had to be a guy with a flag going before the car to warn everybody...

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Maybe so, but I don't see being secretive or hiding stuff as being helpful. I used to think that, I thought that we should keep it all a secret for ourselves, and if no one knew, things would be better for us, but I don't feel that way anymore. You should throw all the chips on the table and see what happens. Information is good, and it should be shared. 

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