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New GotWay Nikola 17''

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1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Everything about this wheel except the price is pretty neat. Maybe not for everyone, but something new. Not every wheel must be generic, boring, serious. Maybe rename to Gotway Neon.

Agreed. The name Nikola is not going to help them sell this. The name Tesla, surely helped them sell that model, for obvious reasons, but Nikola? Um, no. They're way better off sticking to a name which follows the design. Neon, or yo-yo would help sell it, I believe, or maybe the Gotway Tron...Perhaps not to the old school Gotway enthusiasts, but certainly to the Inmotion/Kingsong faithful. I give Gotway a pat on the back for going after a new fan base! Whether you personally like it or dislike its flambouyance, either way, it's a good move for Gotway. Now let's hope it doesn't cost $2500 when it comes out.

Edited by Rama Douglas

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They put about as much effort into the name as they did into their clearances of the shell seams around the lift button yes I know it's a "prototype":efee8319ab: But it's not like KS16S, KS18L, V10, Z10 is better. As long as performance and price are good... and maybe the shell is durable enough to not look like crap after 3 tumbles... I don't think any name would be a problem. Nikola is cute. Next wheel: "Heidi", please (why not?).

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32 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Gotway Cyclotron might be a cooler name!  :w00t2:  With the LED ring lights it looks like a mini particle accelerator.  Or maybe Gotway Hadron or Gotway LHC?  As in the Large Hadron Collider at CERN?  Who doesn’t like Quantum particle physics?!  Higgs boson me baby!  :thumbup:

https://home.cern/science/accelerators

Cyclotron is the best EUC name ever:thumbup: As always, Hunka comes up with the best stuff. But it should be GGC (Gotway Ground Collider) instead of the LHC real name;)

21 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

It's just not that compelling to me. Lets face it, inside will be the same old crappy Gotway quality. At least with something like the Z10, $2000 seemed justified.

It's still a 1600Wh Gotway "16" incher, finally with TO-247/MSX/MCM5/Monster100V board! How can you be so cool towards the rightful ACM successor just because of the looks and durability and size and  build quality, despite the price? Aren't the ring lights just like the ones on the Tesla that you like?

What's next, the 18XL you're getting to test will convince you to go KingSong?:P

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49 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

And if they don't get rid of that candy-cane look I wouldn't buy it for $500. It looks like a giant breath mint

Well @Marty Backe, at least the breath mint shell is only on one side, the other side of the wheel (not really shown off at length, but clearly shown on the Russian language video @EcoDrift posted on YouTube) is a solid carbon fibre effect! So you only need to be halfway unimpressed with it's looks, or make sure (when you still go ahead & buy it anyway!) that you only look at it from the Solid shell side! :D

Edited by fbhb

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40 minutes ago, fbhb said:

Well @Marty Backe, at least the breath mint shell is only on one side, the other side of the wheel (not really shown off at length, but clearly shown on the Russian language video @EcoDrift posted on YouTube) is a solid carbon fibre effect! So you only need to be halfway unimpressed with it's looks, or make sure (when you still go ahead & buy it anyway!) that you only look at it from the Solid shell side! :D

Maybe GotWay will release 2 versions, one with the lights and the other with solid carbon fibre effect on both sides. And they sent a combination unit to the Russians so they didn't have to send 2 units ;-)

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3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

They put about as much effort into the name as they did into their clearances of the shell seams around the lift button yes I know it's a "prototype":efee8319ab: But it's not like KS16S, KS18L, V10, Z10 is better. As long as performance and price are good... and maybe the shell is durable enough to not look like crap after 3 tumbles... I don't think any name would be a problem. Nikola is cute. Next wheel: "Heidi", please (why not?).

Gotway Achtung. :ph34r:

1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Gotway Cyclotron might be a cooler name!  :w00t2:  With the LED ring lights it looks like a mini particle accelerator.  Or maybe Gotway Hadron or Gotway LHC?  As in the Large Hadron Collider at CERN?  Who doesn’t like Quantum particle physics?!  Higgs boson me baby!  :thumbup:

https://home.cern/science/accelerators

Why not, heck "Quantum" is pretty cool in it's on right but perhaps better suited for next GW model containing a speed upgrade, new board, hub motor, possibly even thicker axle to fit lower gauge wires, it seams as if forum members is all GW need naming a new model, competition coming up, and the winner gets a...? :rolleyes:

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Above $1500 there are a myriad number of gas powered alternatives available here. A 125cc Honda Wave is less than $2k, for example.  So as a transportation alternative for longer distance commuting, that will no doubt limit it's sales potential here and much of the rest of Asia.  

 

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6 hours ago, NECway said:

Maybe GotWay will release 2 versions, one with the lights and the other with solid carbon fibre effect on both sides. And they sent a combination unit to the Russians so they didn't have to send 2 units ;-)

Both sides, as shown in the Russian language video, have the full ring light so that feature I would imagine is set in stone & unlikely to change. However, maybe it would be possible for GotWay to ditch the one-sided see through panel (which allow's you to see into the electronics side of the wheel & by the way, let's hope GotWay have tidied up their act internally if they are purposely putting it all on show!) should enough of the community/potential buyers dislike it. Or two versions as you suggest, one with & one without the "Breath Mint" panel! :D

Edited by fbhb

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4 hours ago, Thai-lad said:

Above $1500 there are a myriad number of gas powered alternatives available here. A 125cc Honda Wave is less than $2k, for example.  So as a transportation alternative for longer distance commuting, that will no doubt limit it's sales potential here and much of the rest of Asia.  

 

Agree, and can absolutely see why they are solid alternative to a wheel in Thailand, the things so sweet about about a wheel here in Stockholm though is the ability to just grab it like a bag on the bus, train and ride to/from the public transportation, we have these rules on the commuter trains here where you are not even allow a bicycle in there for most of the time (with some hours where exception apply.)

+ Can take up to apartment when home, very different environments though so can see the appeal where you live and if transportation is the main reason.

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Nikola sounds in Chinese like "You cry?". :crying:

At this price and a toy looking giant roomba appearance, GW has to put some new tech into it to justify. It has to have some characteristics of the next generation EUCs.

 

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13 hours ago, Rama Douglas said:

The name Tesla, surely helped them sell that model, for obvious reasons, but Nikola? Um, no.

Er, you do realize that Nikola was Tesla's first name, right?

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6 hours ago, Electroman said:

Agree, and can absolutely see why they are solid alternative to a wheel in Thailand, the things so sweet about about a wheel here in Stockholm though is the ability to just grab it like a bag on the bus, train and ride to/from the public transportation, we have these rules on the commuter trains here where you are not even allow a bicycle in there for most of the time (with some hours where exception apply.)

+ Can take up to apartment when home, very different environments though so can see the appeal where you live and if transportation is the main reason.

Yes, I've ridden to work on Stockholm trains so know exactly what you mean.  That's why I mentioned that it would be competing with scooters here in Asia.  But as a last mile commuter wheel it has a lot of competition from other makes and models, it needs to offer something special besides looks to justify that kind of price.  It's clearly aimed at long distance riders with the huge battery offering, which isn't what a train/bus commuter is typically looking for.  It's tall case will potentially make it more difficult to bring on buses and trains.  The super wide handle doesn't look like it's going to be very comfortable for lifting/carrying, though I admit I could be wrong on that point.  So who exactly is the target market for this wheel?  Disco lights and boom box audio suggest a younger audience than the typical 40+ year old enthusiasts on this forum...

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3 hours ago, Thai-lad said:

Yes, I've ridden to work on Stockholm trains so know exactly what you mean.  That's why I mentioned that it would be competing with scooters here in Asia.  But as a last mile commuter wheel it has a lot of competition from other makes and models, it needs to offer something special besides looks to justify that kind of price.  It's clearly aimed at long distance riders with the huge battery offering, which isn't what a train/bus commuter is typically looking for.  It's tall case will potentially make it more difficult to bring on buses and trains.  The super wide handle doesn't look like it's going to be very comfortable for lifting/carrying, though I admit I could be wrong on that point.  So who exactly is the target market for this wheel?  Disco lights and boom box audio suggest a younger audience than the typical 40+ year old enthusiasts on this forum...

Cool.

Absolutely agree on all points, I am also in the camp that prefer, ruggedness, every drop of performance/battery and flat out functionality in a package improved upon generation by generation, year by year over the disco/boombox looking like a terrible mess after first flip over (which might not even be the case here.)

I absolutely can see the appeal for design and features, me personally would not be caught dead using, flashing/blinking lights or even riding around playing music out loud but we all different and maybe I feel ashamed standing out hehe, ok I may be an exception but again I do not use plugs in my ears either, I consider that a danger in traffic and to be avoided at all cost but at same time would not feel comfortable about playing music out loud for others but this is not the full real reason I admit. It's like people why have ideas about why spinning lights in all colors make you visible in traffic and that I can understand. Yes indeed 40+

Z10 to me is proof why a stylish but still not too complex of a form will work with a lot of people, make it rugged and tough, functionality must not exclude form, style.

 

Can skip the following, but in term of safety/rules..

Spoiler

Regarding safety (cause it is important and felt the need to mention it before yet did not) and importance of pattern recognition in traffic I even read this long study some years ago pointing to why it is much safer to follow the set up laws around lights etc here, something doing with recognition patterns in humans brains and making decisions in split sec seeing you in the dark, hence important to follow the code set up here which is typically a headlight ("white" forward whether towards the warmer reddish or colder bluish spectrum on the scale regarding k temp), red backwards and safety reflectors, forward, backwards but more to the point here to the sides and set up colors for that.

I cannot seam to find the specific study this seconds writing this text but remember it well and a scientific deep dive into traffic, patterns and scientific methods to be seen the best but also have people make the connection to what/who your are on first moment spotting you cause even unconsciously, potential decisions immediately after and caring for your safety is in part already set up there and then upon spotting you and by just making the bicycle connection right away the fact you are a unprotected, a soft human being is made.  For us who likely to be interested in technical stuff, good eye sight etc we may have our own ideas about how to be visible in traffic (something I see all the time here) + of course different countries may have different laws, but I highly doubt any country is using purple spinning patterns by default and implemented into law to be sen in traffic at night, either way point is recognition patterns are very important in traffic. Meaning this most certainly is not my own ideas here I am just repeating what the study around being immediately recognized and visible in traffic came up with. Our laws here regarding how your bicycle must be equipped etc, with the head and tail lamp + reflectors at the side (but also forward/backwards although in same color as the lights.) It's more to it than that but the basics, for ex of the back light is blinking which it is allowed to do but it must blink by min 200 times/second but like I said, all this is based in science and how we recognition patterns work, how we spot and divert out attention yet kept simple at basic level cause teh less information to process...?  It is not just silly me on a whim having ideas on how others best see me in traffic, promise I did not make it up on the fly here hehe.

As for the written rules:

https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/sv/vagtrafik/Trafikregler/Cyklist-mopedist-motorcyklist/Trafikregler/Regler-for-cykel/

 

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9 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

Er, you do realize that Nikola was Tesla's first name, right?

Of course. Nobody refers to him by Nikola. Tesla is a brand, a dude, a company, a band. Well known. My point is that it isn't catchy and it's just... like ...my opinion man...but thanks for the history lesson! 😜 

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3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's not just that a EUC may be more practical/carryable.

He's very right with that comment. If you take a 2000+$/€ wheel, you get into the price territory of gas scooters and everything. And if you look how much you get there, in terms of parts, mass and size, production quality, costs to produce... a gas engine alone is more complex and complicated to produce than an entire EUC! And you get two wheels, a body, brakes, seat, lights, everything.

Yes I know, economies of scale of a big established 100yo auto manufacturer vs. tiny China EUC manufacturer. But people don't care about that. It's hard to not feel ripped off by 2000+ EUC if you can get so much more "stuff" for the same kind of money. It's mentally very different from a 1000-1500 EUC (or scooter), because you can get nothing better for these prices. 2000+ is not only more money, but has this extra obstacle in the way. 2000+ is too much for a EUC in my opinion.

I see what you mean, but the same can be said about electric cars. 

The problem is that batteries are expensive.

And when you're used to an euc an e-scooter (the ones that they litter all over cities nowadays) is already very cumbersome to take with you, let alone a gas powered moped.

Let's not forget that due to lack of regulations in some places (or police simply not enforcing them) and the fact that we are a minority, we are a lot more flexible in transport than a gas scooter. I can legally ride my wheel on the street, on a bike path, on the sidewalk. If I arrive at a red light I can simply hop on the sidewalk, turn right, and if it's safe go back on the street or bicycle path. If you start doing that with your gas scooter it won't be long before the cops grab you.

+ no fear of theft because we just carry them inside.

And for 2K you can already buy a very nice electric bicycle too!

Edited by ir_fuel

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4 hours ago, Rama Douglas said:

Of course. Nobody refers to him by Nikola. Tesla is a brand, a dude, a company, a band. Well known. My point is that it isn't catchy and it's just... like ...my opinion man...but thanks for the history lesson! 😜 

I like it when companies honor the scientists and inventors that made our modern life possible, instead of just going for whatever marketeers think will appeal to the lowest common denominator.

If they want more names of this type, a good one would be "Faraday". The great British scientist who discovered the principles of electromagnetic induction and electromagnetism.

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50 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

If they want more names of this type, a good one would be "Faraday". The great British scientist who discovered the principles of electromagnetic induction and electromagnetism.

Or 'Newton' who discovered gravity (a.k.a. faceplant). :w00t2:

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6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's not just that a EUC may be more practical/carryable.

He's very right with that comment. If you take a 2000+$/€ wheel, you get into the price territory of gas scooters and everything. And if you look how much you get there, in terms of parts, mass and size, production quality, costs to produce... a gas engine alone is more complex and complicated to produce than an entire EUC! And you get two wheels, a body, brakes, seat, lights, everything.

Yes I know, economies of scale of a big established 100yo auto manufacturer vs. tiny China EUC manufacturer. But people don't care about that. It's hard to not feel ripped off by 2000+ EUC if you can get so much more "stuff" for the same kind of money. It's mentally very different from a 1000-1500 EUC (or scooter), because you can get nothing better for these prices. 2000+ is not only more money, but has this extra obstacle in the way. 2000+ is too much for a EUC in my opinion.

No arguments from me there, but I will not consider the 125cc on my back up the stairs after each ride, that's just too much to ask! :ph34r:

Regarding batteries yes they are expensive, but me as a private person can buy the Pana GA cell for €4.25 each here in EU if choosing a respected known seller like NKON and I suspect that translates to about the same as the $?  However if I buy 30 of them it's already at €3.90, if I want to rebuild my battery packs sitting on GW 1600Wh and buy min 180 of them price will land at €3.75, a lot of cells for just me but should I instead choose 540 pieces I am already at €3.50 but do not list other options I must call NKON and ask if thinking of some mega order, but we establish that even for a DIY enthusiast prices start to move down if looking for more.

I still don't know how many wheels GW put together/months but I strongly suspect they get crates and crates of GA's and a huge rebate per cell compared to what I can get here in the EU, I honestly do not know if they use the Sanyo or Panasonic GA cell, the one still made in Japan or the one made in China now? If they get the China manufactured NCR18650GA cell they probably get it even cheaper still, either one looks like a very strong competitor: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=91821

I would not at all be surprised if GW are able to get cells for just a couple (or less?) $/each buying so many of them, indeed I think manufacturing a of GW wheel is a lot cheaper than most are ready to believe, we have heard about fees, taxes and so on that bring up the cost for the end user/customers but still is King Song for ex much larger and more efficient at making them than GW? Segway/Ninebot may be better organized but you also get a bit different quality and better engineered wheel and still not costing  a lot more than for ex MSX, last I checked you could get a Z10 cheaper.

I am absolutely convinced there is room for a company like Gotway to even lower them some without risking anything but hey I am speculating, some perhaps do not even want to believe that but i do cause approximate developments costs, materials etc I cannot see why a wheel would need to be at even $2k, but if there would be any opportunity to sell wheels for say $2.5k or even higher there is no doubt in my whatsoever the ruling interests would make it happen. It's capitalism and in there interest to have us think they are more expensive then they are to manufacture, to have as much profit as can get, sometimes on tech forum you see for ex Intel/AMD/Nvidia fans argue about HW and some even seams to think the favorite company is their friend or somehow care about them personally, that's a big mistake imho! Don't think they hate us either, it just is..

 

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3 hours ago, Jon Stern said:

 

If they want more names of this type, a good one would be "Faraday". The great British scientist who discovered the principles of electromagnetic induction and electromagnetism.

And along those lines, howzabout Grebennikov...levitation dude! 

https://youtu.be/hYJXE4FCm7Q

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