New GotWay Nikola 17''

[meepmeepmayer]

15 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

That's not my quote.

Hm, not sure why the forum thinks it is your quote. I just selected the text and used the quote popup. Maybe accidentally from your post?

15 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

But Nikola has the board on the top just like KS so water shouldn't be an issue?  

Good point. But I guess the speakers don't like water too much as well.

Edited March 28, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Jason McNeil]

15 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

19 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

But Nikola has the board on the top just like KS so water shouldn't be an issue?  

Good point. But I guess the speakers don't like water too much as well

This is how the speakers are installed on the EcoDrift proprod Nikola, inside of the wheel housing. All the detritus from the road is going to get caked in there. They maybe 25W speakers when new, how effective are they going to be with a 1cm barrier of muck lodged in there after the first 100km? 

[Marty Backe]

13 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

This is how the speakers are installed on the EcoDrift proprod Nikola, inside of the wheel housing. All the detritus from the road is going to get caked in there. They maybe 25W speakers when new, how effective are they going to be with a 1cm barrier of muck lodged in there after the first 100km? 

Well the good thing is all of us Gotway riders are accustomed to wheels without speakers, so there won't be much difference 

I wonder why they didn't do what they are doing with the newest version of the Tesla - the speaker looks sweet on that wheel.

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Marty Backe

[meepmeepmayer]

That completely thoughtless construction clearly shows they didn't give even half a f**k. Oh well, the 16X exists. Which I guess is (informally at least) built to some IP standard of waterproofing, unlike this. Not paying ~2k€ for this kind of (or rather lack of) design and build quality and longevity.

[Nic]

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

News just in on the Nikola:

• Motor disengagement: that if the under-handle disengagement button is pressed (or malfunctions) during rotation, the motor will not cutout, similar to Inmotion

So, if I pick it up without pressing the button properly it will continue to spin? No one would be able to press the button while riding so I don't see that as a safety feature unless a bump could trigger it but that can be solved with a better button design. If the button malfunctions how will you switch the unit off? I don't think I am understanding this feature...

Edited March 28, 2019 by Nic

[Jason McNeil]

53 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I wonder why they didn't do what they are doing with the newest version of the Tesla - the speaker looks sweet on that wheel.

At a wholesale pricing level, the Tesla speaker & cut-off switch are going to cost an extra $100, this would mean ~$150 tacked onto the price to break even with import duties. Is it worth it for these addition? 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Jason McNeil

[Marty Backe]

31 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

At a wholesale pricing level, the Tesla speaker & cut-off switch are going to cost an extra $100, this would mean ~$150 tacked onto the price to break even with import duties. Is it worth it for these addition? 

You're asking the wrong guy 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Nic said:

So, if I pick it up without pressing the button properly it will continue to spin? No one would be able to press the button while riding so I don't see that as a safety feature unless a bump could trigger it but that can be solved with a better button design. If the button malfunctions how will you switch the unit off? I don't think I am understanding this feature...

First of all, a switch can fail, however unlikely, and the consequences would not be pretty. Second, there are riders that sometime sit, even on these kind of wheels. When moving from standing to sitting, the handle can be grabbed for stability.

The MCM5, with its cutoff switch, also does not activate when the wheel is in motion - I've tested it.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Marty Backe

[QLam56]

13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

The MCM5, with it's cutoff switch, also does not activate when the wheel is in motion - I've tested it.

My custom MSX switch also does not activate when the wheel is in motion (Just tested it since I was curious what would happen if it was accidentally pushed during motion.). 

Edited March 28, 2019 by QLam56

[Heyzeus]

3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Speakers exposed to Wheel housing:  questions on waterproofing, suggested adding Gortex membrane, response "no one can make sure a product can be waterproof perfectly", insert your own interpretations here

Gotway translation: we will ride it through the ocean in ads because we have an entire wharehouse of wheels (wheelhouse??) and parts.  Replacing the water damaged speakers is no big deal, and worst case scenario we can just throw away the rusted out wheel and use a new one in the next ads.

 

Though to be fair to gotway I don't think many people think riding through seawater is a valid use case but still being able to ride through a puddle of water that's accumulated by a curb ramp without worrying about  ruining your speakers would be nice.  But I'm not in the market for a nikola so I can hardly make demands...

Since the speakers are exposed are they rated for environmental exposure (ie outdoor speakers) at all or just standard Bluetooth speakers?

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

They maybe 25W speakers when new, how effective are they going to be with a 1cm barrier of muck lodged in there after the first 100km? 

Easy to purge the muck. Just let it dry out and  turn up the bass. 

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Rehab1 said:

Easy to purge the muck. Just let it dry out and  turn up the bass. 

Thinking outside the box 

You know, I've seen the inside of a lot of EUC wheel wells and don't side much caked-on of anything. And doesn't the Ninebot speaker point into the motor?

Assuming that they are using outdoor rated speakers, I don't see the big deal here. But maybe I need to take off my Gotway helmet to see clearly 

[Heyzeus]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

"no one can make sure a product can be waterproof perfectly"

Reply: "No one can make sure people don't buy a KingSong instead. I guess you'll have to live with that."

Honestly, on second thought this is such a lazy reply ( by gotway, not you meep).  Basically saying "we don't care enough to put in the effort where we should, the bare minimum is good enough".

Honda, Suzuki, Harley, BMW, and other manufacturers that make motorcycles and touring bikes have no problem making bikes (that contain computers, speakers and electronic systems) that can be ridden in a tropical storm without malfunctioning or breaking down.

like a little rubber grommet to seal off a potential point of ingress to enhance the life of your customers wheels would seem like a win in both quality and customer satisfaction compared to the pennies cost of adding a grommet.

Sometimes I just don't get it

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Heyzeus

[Smoother]

12 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Thinking outside the box 

You know, I've seen the inside of a lot of EUC wheel wells and don't side much caked-on of anything. And doesn't the Ninebot speaker point into the motor?

Assuming that they are using outdoor rated speakers, I don't see the big deal here. But maybe I need to take off my Gotway helmet to see clearly 

A few weeks ago I rode down the farm track outside my front door.  It was mucky, but not that mucky  After a mile or so the wheel would strain and dip slightly forward every rotation.  There was so much mud built up inside the wheel cavity, it was actually slowing the wheel down (yeah, My tyre wobbles a bit).  It literally took me longer to clean the wheel out that my ride; a lot longer.  I had to use a few sticks and screw drivers, then I put it in a plastic tub with a few inches of water, and wizzed the wheel around for a few minutes. There was a lot of mud in the bottom, even after digging out a lot of it, previously.  A few days later I went for a tarmac ride, and every now and then, there was a thunk, and another clod of mud would fall out.  wheel cavity speakers, no bueno.

EDIT. And this was on my semi slick tyre which has almost no tread for mud to get lodged in.  In fact the tyre was unusually clean despite managing to carry and deposit an estimated 3lbs of mud into the wheel cavity.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Smoother

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

Honestly, on second thought this is such a lazy reply ( by gotway, not you meep).  Basically saying "we don't care enough to put in the effort where we should, the bare minimum is good enough".

Honda, Suzuki, Harley, BMW, and other manufacturers that make motorcycles and touring bikes have no problem making bikes (that contain computers, speakers and electronic systems) that can be ridden in a tropical storm without malfunctioning or breaking down.

like a little rubber grommet to seal off a potential point of ingress to enhance the life of your customers wheels would seem like a win in both quality and customer satisfaction compared to the pennies cost of adding a grommet.

Sometimes I just don't get it

 

Yeah, Gotway is a mystery for sure.

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Smoother said:

A few weeks ago I rode down the farm track outside my front door.  It was mucky, but not that mucky  After a mile or so the wheel would strain and dip slightly forward every rotation.  There was so much mud built up inside the wheel cavity, it was actually slowing the wheel down (yeah, My tyre wobbles a bit).  It literally took me longer to clean the wheel out that my ride; a lot longer.  I had to use a few sticks and screw drivers, then I put it in a plastic tub with a few inches of water, and wizzed the wheel around for a few minutes. There was a lot of mud in the bottom, even after digging out a lot of it, previously.  A few days later I went for a tarmac ride, and every now and then, there was a thunk, and another clod of mud would fall out.  wheel cavity speakers, no bueno.

Granted, I don't do much mud riding around here.

Looks like mud riders should avoid the Z10 and Nikola.

[Smoother]

22 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Granted, I don't do much mud riding around here.

Looks like mud riders should avoid the Z10 and Nikola.

The thing is, it wasn't that muddy and I ride around the worst bits. On my semi slick tyre I avoid the sloppy stuff because I have almost no grip.  I was surprised as anyone might have been, who would have seen it.  photos:

Photo !. Note: tyre is almost clean. 2. debris built up around opening

 

Photo 2. tub with water after "rinse" cycle

Photo three. After draining away the water and some of the mud, I scraped up some of the dry mud off the ground, and tossed it in the tub to show Some of the mud (I didn't scrape it all up) Screwdriver is for scale.

 

Oh what I would give for miles and miles of pool table-smooth, tarmac bike paths.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Smoother

[Hatchet]

I don't get Gotway on this at all. They charge a lot of money for these wheels and include complete garbage chargers, and those exposed speakers, wth? They can't break a $5 and put some screen or cover over the speakers?

Quality and build are where we are at now IMO. The standard 2k motor, 1600wh battery stuff is established as a somewhat accepted base, generally I mean.

Now we should be moving to better quality and build, the hard part is done. Good lord, you want 2-3k for a wheel and can't be arsed to make it decently waterproof or include a decent charger (since the wheel is useless with no battery charge). They aren't even making an effort from what I see.

Less rainbow lights and more build quality Gotway - and Kingsong. Now that KS is making wheels as powerful and battery as GW, the war will be won with quality, and IMO, KS is miles ahead, GW must step up their game man, geez!

Edited March 28, 2019 by Hatchet

[meepmeepmayer]

Garbage chargers? They're including a stronger charger with this one. Of all the valid complaints, this isn't one

Agree with the rest. 2kW, 1600Wh is base now. 2000 for some amateur quality build? No thanks.

Still wondering if the have an ace up their sleeve with the Nikola, or are simply overconfident (or didn't expect the 16X). The Nikola isn't a bad wheel, just has to many flaws to be competitive enough (maybe sales will prove me wrong). FFS a 16x3 Gotway 1600Wh wheel, this should be my dream wheel.

[Mono]

15 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The MCM5, with its cutoff switch, also does not activate when the wheel is in motion - I've tested it.

And the InMotion V8 kill switch works like charm in the same way and not when in motion.

15 hours ago, Nic said:

So, if I pick it up without pressing the button properly it will continue to spin?

Yes, like without kill switch. The V8 is practically impossible to lift normally without engaging the kill switch. You can intentionally avoid the switch, but it's kinda difficult even then.

Quote

No one would be able to press the button while riding

I sure can and did, though not (yet) accidentally.

Quote

so I don't see that as a safety feature unless a bump could trigger it but that can be solved with a better button design. If the button malfunctions how will you switch the unit off?

with the on/off switch (I assume), like any other wheel with or without a kill switch.

Quote

I don't think I am understanding this feature...

maybe now 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Mono

[Heyzeus]

2 hours ago, Hatchet said:

I don't get Gotway on this at all. They charge a lot of money for these wheels and include complete garbage chargers, and those exposed speakers, wth? They can't break a $5 and put some screen or cover over the speakers?

Quality and build are where we are at now IMO. The standard 2k motor, 1600wh battery stuff is established as a somewhat accepted base, generally I mean.

Now we should be moving to better quality and build, the hard part is done. Good lord, you want 2-3k for a wheel and can't be arsed to make it decently waterproof or include a decent charger (since the wheel is useless with no battery charge). They aren't even making an effort from what I see.

Less rainbow lights and more build quality Gotway - and Kingsong. Now that KS is making wheels as powerful and battery as GW, the war will be won with quality, and IMO, KS is miles ahead, GW must step up their game man, geez!

I really am not sure who gotway expects to win over with this wheel when it's almost spec for spec the same as the 16X.  To me the Nikola isn't exciting and feels like a dud and I've never owned a KS wheel(ninebot c+, mcm4, ACM2).  The most exciting thing to me about the Nikola is the pedals which I will order to put on my ACM most likely.

With the 16x's higher pedal height, and more nimble feel according to kuji rolls, unless the top speed ends up being better than stated or the acceleration just feels way better than on the King song I don't know why anyone would go with the Nikola over the 16x.

It's a real shame, like my gotway ACM 2 feels solid and I don't feel like there's a big lack of quality there.  The panels are nice and solid, it rides well, probably decently okay looking inside though could probably be better... But it feels solid and I don't feel like it was cheaped out on.

But with the Nikola, unless you specifically like it's look or you want that light show more than what King song has I just don't see why you would go with it... But we'll see when it comes out and the King song is out, who ends up having the better wheel.

[Hatchet]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Garbage chargers? They're including a stronger charger with this one. Of all the valid complaints, this isn't one

Agree with the rest. 2kW, 1600Wh is base now. 2000 for some amateur quality build? No thanks.

Still wondering if the have an ace up their sleeve with the Nikola, or are simply overconfident (or didn't expect the 16X). The Nikola isn't a bad wheel, just has to many flaws to be competitive enough (maybe sales will prove me wrong). FFS a 16x3 Gotway 1600Wh wheel, this should be my dream wheel.

I mention the chargers because I have had 2 of them die on me, each lasted 2 months. I wrote a salty email to Jason after the last one. A wheel you can't charge is a doorstop. 

I think it's unacceptable to include a garbage (I stand by it) chargers which are a vital item for such an expensive item. Might as well tack $100 on the cost of a wheel and ship them with the excellent(!) ewheels chargers. But that's a tangent, hopefully the new charger is better, but I am skeptical.

Just for context, I have both a MSX & a 18s, and a V5f+

Edited March 29, 2019 by Hatchet

[Marty Backe]

27 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

I mention the chargers because I have had 2 of them die on me, each lasted 2 months. I wrote a salty email to Jason after the last one. A wheel you can't charge is a doorstop. 

I think it's unacceptable to include a garbage (I stand by it) chargers which are a vital item for such an expensive item. Might as well tack $100 on the cost of a wheel and ship them with the excellent(!) ewheels chargers. But that's a tangent, hopefully the new charger is better, but I am skeptical.

Just for context, I have both a MSX & a 18s, and a V5f+

I agree. If you only have one Gotway you're screwed if the charger fails. Fortunately I get a new spare charger with every wheel I get, so I'm good  

I think I have 2 or 3 chargers laying about that I use, plus the EWheels fast charger. Knock on wood, but I haven't had a failure yet.

I'm under the impression all wheel chargers are of low quality, so it's not just a Gotway problem.

[Heyzeus]

The other thing that is disappointing is that when a major seller of these wheels @Jason McNeil says to gotway hey maybe you could add this, it would be good for the wheels and appreciated by the customers,  the reply is "ehhhhhhhhh nothing can be perfect" as if since it can't be perfect why bother.

Whereas when the 16X was unveiled and people were giving commentary, one of the things mentioned was the shell being too low to the ground, and Jason's and @US69's feedback was that King song hears you and is already working on making that change along with adding a kill switch and potentially even changing the look of the shell to have a carbon fiber look if it seems good among other improvements.

Gotway prototype approach: here's our prototype manufacturing begins soon Hope you like it when it's out.

KingSong prototype approach: check out our prototype, what do you like about it, anything missing, can anything be improved upon it, we hope to start manufacturing it soon, please let us know.

King song seems to be much more open to feedback which is nice.

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, Heyzeus said:

The other thing that is disappointing is that when a major seller of these wheels @Jason McNeil says to gotway hey maybe you could add this, it would be good for the wheels and appreciated by the customers,  the reply is "ehhhhhhhhh nothing can be perfect" as if since it can't be perfect why bother.

Whereas when the 16X was unveiled and people were giving commentary, one of the things mentioned was the shell being too low to the ground, and Jason's and @US69's feedback was that King song hears you and is already working on making that change along with adding a kill switch and potentially even changing the look of the shell to have a carbon fiber look if it seems good among other improvements.

Gotway prototype approach: here's our prototype manufacturing begins soon Hope you like it when it's out.

KingSong prototype approach: check out our prototype, what do you like about it, anything missing, can anything be improved upon it, we hope to start manufacturing it soon, please let us know.

King song seems to be much more open to feedback which is nice.

This is nothing new. We've been complaining for years.

Keep in mind that although EWheels is big, the Asian market appears to be the dominant one that companies like Gotway cater too.

Unlike automobiles (publicly traded companies), we have no idea how may EUCs are sold and where. We're guessing, but the thought is that the US is a small market.