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New GotWay Nikola 17''

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20 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

I'm gonna wait and see how the urban walk-up apartment guys KS18L/XL handles last after over a year of the substantial 18L/18XL weight stress. I don't have much faith in how tiny the screws supporting them are at the bases of the grab handle, even with the redesigned fix (don't believe me? just unscrew one and take a look, see if you have faith in those two thin screws supporting over 50+lbs over time).

Not being able to lug the wheel around by the handle would be an absolute showstopper. Rolling the wheel in to work can't happen lest I leave wheel tracks all over the building. I didn't even bother installing the handle on the ACM or ACM2 for this reason. 

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5 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Not being able to lug the wheel around by the handle would be an absolute showstopper. Rolling the wheel in to work can't happen lest I leave wheel tracks all over the building. I didn't even bother installing the handle on the ACM or ACM2 for this reason. 

FWIW, King Song & @US69 (because I know he'll chime in to refute my concerns) have said the issue was addressed (like with past KS16 handle tops snapping off the trolley sticks), but my common sense in looking at the two, every day, #4/#6 style wood screws supporting the entire wheel weight against the grab handle bases, still has me considerably concerned.

Only time will tell which side is correct, unfortunately, but Chinese EUC company quality control (or lack thereof) has taught me to stay skeptical -_-

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15 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

Not being able to lug the wheel around by the handle would be an absolute showstopper. Rolling the wheel in to work can't happen lest I leave wheel tracks all over the building. I didn't even bother installing the handle on the ACM or ACM2 for this reason. 

So?  Do all the other employees take there shoes off when they enter the building?  I can't see why you can't wheel it around inside.  Maybe if the tyre's wet you could take 20 seconds to dry it with a rag, near the entrance.

 

5 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

FWIW, King Song & @US69 (because I know he'll chime in to refute my concerns) have said the issue was addressed (like with past KS16 handle tops snapping off the trolley sticks), but my common sense in looking at the two, every day, #4/#6 style wood screws supporting the entire wheel weight against the grab handle bases, still has me considerably concerned.

Only time will tell which side is correct, unfortunately, but Chinese EUC company quality control (or lack thereof) has taught me to stay skeptical -_-

I can't fault the reasoning here.  There's one area you haven't considered.  Down deep in the handle the release mechanism operates two tiny metal pins (on my 16s)  I could see these shearing over time on the18xl, unless they've been upgraded for the 18 series.  I do agree that quality control from these manufacturers seems to be more like " that'l do".

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38 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Both of you are suburb car guys, no reason to extensively lift and carry the wheel. (I don't own a car by design, no need to)

I'm gonna wait and see how the urban walk-up apartment guys KS18L/XL handles last after over a year of the substantial 18L/18XL weight stress. I don't have much faith in how tiny the screws supporting them are at the bases of the grab handle, even with the redesigned fix (don't believe me? just unscrew one and take a look, see if you have faith in those two thin screws supporting over 50+lbs over time).

If the KS trolley had an accompanying, solid, built-in-to-the-shell grab handle, this would be a different argument.

 

Also, neither of you have extensively used the scorpion trolley design (again, not being in a daily urban setting) for more than just a demo or few months, as @Marty Backe you don't own one, and @eddiemoy you said it yourself, you barely use your now-on-sale V10F, let alone come into the city from Jersey for non-car-attached daily riding.

While yes, minus my above KS handle concerns, the diagonal KS trolley design I'd say would be #2, I've used the IM scorpion trolley on my V5 for over a year of ownership, day-in-and-day-out....

 

..... and I respectfully disagree. 

 

No other trolley has allowed me to twirl around as easily my wheel with one hand in circles like the scorpion design can, not even the KS-style trolley (handle is too wide, whereas the scorpion trolley is easily manipulate-able in one hand grabbing the narrow bulb end).

If I did the same with the super crappy perpendicular style MSV3/MSX trolley, I would drop the wheel, not to mention trolleying those wheels normally is un-weildly in general IMHO. You can't really tell me that's better than the curved design (not to mention, the curved trolley locks in place (well, with some wiggle), whereas the MSV3/MSX trolley does not, can, and has flown out on impact (thus bending) for some of our NYC riders).

If these real world implementations actually did the curved design justice (way less joint wiggle; collapsing length), there would be no question to me that the scorpion trolley would be by far the best, speaking from someone who constantly has to use his in an urban setting.

You make a good argument.  I don't know who would buy the wheel looking to lift if up many flights of stairs.  But if they do, great exercise.  Agree that in that case not sure if the handle would hold considering it is held together with tiny screws.  don't know.  But for now seems sturdy enough from what I can tell.  Especially on the non 18" wheels where the total weight is down slightly.

I think the IM fold out handle is not really a good design because it wasn't designed into the unit.  More like an after thought that oh, we can add a handle here by bolting it on there.  It is also in the way of the charge port.  That is how much of an after though it was.  But being an after thought, it seem some still like the design.  I found it not as easy to move the wheel around as the KS handle. 

I've also dropped my wheel plenty of times, the older non metal version on my KS16 and it is still intact.  But I've seen failures on line but again not as bad as the MSV3/MSX which flys out when you drop the wheel and while the wheel is doing the spin of death.  LOL.

I guess we have our personal preferences.  

 

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3 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I don't know who would buy the wheel looking to lift if up many flights of stairs.  But if they do, great exercise

I carry the wheel into the elevator, take that up to the 11th floor, thence from the elevator through two sets of security doors and drop the wheel into a bucket under my desk. It is a pain in the neck but you are very right, it is great exercise. :efeed51798:

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34 minutes ago, Smoother said:

So?  Do all the other employees take there shoes off when they enter the building?  I can't see why you can't wheel it around inside.  Maybe if the tyre's wet you could take 20 seconds to dry it with a rag, near the entrance.

I'd be banned from bringing the wheel into the building within days if I tried that. Also, you would be astounded by how much water melts out of the wheel after riding it in the snow some days. I'd be there all morning waiting for it to dry out. My better half nearly banned me from keeping it indoors at all once winter started, until we worked out the bucket thing. Amazingly, electric unicycles are actually mentioned specifically as being prohibited from being brought into our sister building across the street, so somebody has had this problem before me. I'm on thin ice with it as it is, because it drips on the carpet as I carry it around. I'm trying to design some sort of sling that will prevent it from dripping as I carry it.

Edited by winterwheel

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6 minutes ago, Smoother said:

I can't fault the reasoning here.  There's one area you haven't considered.  Down deep in the handle the release mechanism operates two tiny metal pins (on my 16s)  I could see these shearing over time on the18xl, unless they've been upgraded for the 18 series.  I do agree that quality control from these manufacturers seems to be more like " that'l do".

Ah yes, that one I actually have a bit more faith in, since they made those locking pins thicker on the 18L/XL improved trolley sticks (compared to your 16S).

But your point also shows that the KS trolley design in general being able to sustain carrying around the wheel weight (more critical for the heaviest 18's) has 3 points of failure: 1.) the recessed trolley stick base attachment to the inner shell, 2.) the trolley stick locking pins, and 3.) the paper-thin screws that affix the trolley sticks to the long grab handle. 

I agree, it looks aesthetically better to have the one-handle-be-all-handle, but all these possible points of failure is a bit much to justify this design, especially for a 50+lb IMHO.

 

10 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I think the IM fold out handle is not really a good design because it wasn't designed into the unit.  More like an after thought that oh, we can add a handle here by bolting it on there. 

Well, TBF, on the V10/V10F, it was a complete afterthought, as they just slapped on the OG 14", much lighterweight wheel V5 trolley.

But I guess I'm arguing the pros for the curved trolley design idea in general, not how the companies (so far only IM) have implemented it. I will agree that we have not seen an ideal curved trolley implementation.

 

10 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

It is also in the way of the charge port. 

Ah, forgot about that, and yes, I never liked this either!

That would be such an easy fix if they just moved around the charge port to the front. Again, I'm pro curved design in theory, not necessarily the total implementation.

 

10 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I found it not as easy to move the wheel around as the KS handle. 

I guess we have our personal preferences.  

Yes, despite its faults, I definitely like trolley around with the KS handle as well.

But through all this posting, I guess I'm saying I prefer having the bulb to manipulate vs the long bar, and I definitely prefer having the extra space inside the wheel shell (although Gotway wastes a lot of this potential battery space on the Nikola :crying:)

Like you said, think this comes down to now a personal preference.

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4 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

 I'm on thin ice with it as it is

Thin ice! good one.:D Sound like you  need something like a horse's nose bag. One made out of waterproof materiel.  I'm sure you could knock something up pretty quick.  Piece of tarp, four eyelets and 2 bungee cords, sorted!

Edited by Smoother

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3 minutes ago, Smoother said:

Thin ice! good one.:D Sound like you  need something like a horse's nose bag. One made out of waterproof materiel.  I;m sure you could knock something up pretty quick.  Piece of tarp, four eyelets and 2 bungee cords, sorted!

Pretty much what I had in mind, yes. Actually the bungee cords, being stretchy, was something I hadn't thought of, very helpful, thanks. :)

Edited by winterwheel

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How about a large reusable grocery bag; the type they sell to replace disposable bags. You would have to test that the seams are waterproof, and if not, seal them with watered down PVA glue. Same as tent sealer but 100 times cheaper.

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7 minutes ago, Smoother said:

How about a large reusable grocery bag; the type they sell to replace disposable bags. You would have to test that the seams are waterproof, and if not, seal them with watered down PVA glue. Same as tent sealer but 100 times cheaper.

The secondary issue is portability... it has to fit into my smallish backpack with everything else that's in there. The only way a bag would work is if I cut it to size and if I'm going to do that anyway, I might as well start with something flat. It  doesn't have to be particularly heavy, it just has to be waterproof for the five minutes or so of carry time each morning.

Edited by winterwheel

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28 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

The secondary issue is portability... it has to fit into my smallish backpack with everything else that's in there. The only way a bag would work is if I cut it to size and if I'm going to do that anyway, I might as well start with something flat.

An IKEA Frakta (large) would do the job and its very cheap solution that packs flat and it has shoulder straps and carrying handles... 

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/17228340/

frakta.jpg

There is also a medium Frakta if you want something smaller.

frakta 2.jpg

Edited by Nic

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1 minute ago, Nic said:

An IKEA Frakta would do the job and its very cheap solution that packs flat and it has shoulder straps and carrying handles... 

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/17228340/

frakta.jpg

Shoulder straps! Another awesome idea, that would make things so much easier. I might just pick up one of these and play around with it; good starting point if nothing else.

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2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Both of you are suburb car guys, no reason to extensively lift and carry the wheel. (I don't own a car by design, no need to)

I'm gonna wait and see how the urban walk-up apartment guys KS18L/XL handles last after over a year of the substantial 18L/18XL weight stress. I don't have much faith in how tiny the screws supporting them are at the bases of the grab handle, even with the redesigned fix (don't believe me? just unscrew one and take a look, see if you have faith in those two thin screws supporting over 50+lbs over time).

If the KS trolley had an accompanying, solid, built-in-to-the-shell grab handle, this would be a different argument.

 

Also, neither of you have extensively used the scorpion trolley design (again, not being in a daily urban setting) for more than just a demo or few months, as @Marty Backe you don't own one, and @eddiemoy you said it yourself, you barely use your now-on-sale V10F, let alone come into the city from Jersey for non-car-attached daily riding.

While yes, minus my above KS handle concerns, the diagonal KS trolley design I'd say would be #2, I've used the IM scorpion trolley on my V5 for over a year of ownership, day-in-and-day-out....

 

..... and I respectfully disagree. 

 

No other trolley has allowed me to twirl around as easily my wheel with one hand in circles like the scorpion design can, not even the KS-style trolley (handle is too wide, whereas the scorpion trolley is easily manipulate-able in one hand grabbing the narrow bulb end).

If I did the same with the super crappy perpendicular style MSV3/MSX trolley, I would drop the wheel, not to mention trolleying those wheels normally is un-weildly in general IMHO. You can't really tell me that's better than the curved design (not to mention, the curved trolley locks in place (well, with some wiggle), whereas the MSV3/MSX trolley does not, can, and has flown out on impact (thus bending) for some of our NYC riders).

If these real world implementations actually did the curved design justice (way less joint wiggle; collapsing length), there would be no question to me that the scorpion trolley would be by far the best, speaking from someone who constantly has to use his in an urban setting.

You may be right about weakness in the KS18 implementation, but that's hypothetical at this point. Let's see how many handles have broken a year from how.

Most of my experience with the V10F handle was when manhandling the wheel in the mountains. It sucked, big time. I can't argue with you for city handling.

So I amend my comment by saying for trail and mountain riding, the KingSong trolley handle is best and the Inmotion style is the worse. IMO of course.

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@Marty Backe I can't imagine you won't purchase some variant of the Nikola, owning all current line Gotway models, so it will be very interesting how you get by on this dreadful scorpion's tail trolley :P:lol:

Edited by houseofjob

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4 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@Marty Backe I can't imagine you won't purchase some variant of the Nikola, owning all current line Gotway models, so it will be very interesting how you get by on this dreadful scorpion's trail trolley :P:lol:

Indeed, we are relying on Marty to review every new Gotway and point out its flaws. :thumbup:

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7 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@Marty Backe I can't imagine you won't purchase some variant of the Nikola, owning all current line Gotway models, so it will be very interesting how you get by on this dreadful scorpion's trail trolley :P:lol:

One thing is for sure, every time I cuss at the stupid trolley handle, I'll be thinking of the guy in NYC who loves it ;)

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2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

 

Interesting. Is this the first Promo Ad video that Gotway has made? I don't recall seeing anything like this before. If so, they're upping their game.

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13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Interesting. Is this the first Promo Ad video that Gotway has made? I don't recall seeing anything like this before. If so, they're upping their game.

There you go: production qualities for you to aspire to.

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44 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Interesting. Is this the first Promo Ad video that Gotway has made? I don't recall seeing anything like this before. If so, they're upping their game.

LOL, the bar for Chinese EUC marketing is pretty low to begin with.

This feels very much like the promos I believe Green Fashion has put out for previous Gotway wheels, like the MTen3 promo. I wish they would stop using such sappy music *ugh

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There are a few terms on the spec page that are new to me, including Dimernsion, Cruising Rang, Batter and Batter Type, and Energy Recoery. Apparently this wheel also functions as a Lighter for anyone who still smokes. And are Pannasonic Batters a thing? I hope this is a misspelling and not some cheap knockoff battery brand.

I'm sure there are a ton of people hereabouts who would happy to proof-read their copy before it goes out to unsuspecting users.

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On 1/4/2019 at 6:56 PM, US69 said:

Yes, he will chime in :-)

I can say this:

All locks and the complete inside mechanism of the newer 18L/XL has been overworked, and having one myself now, and carrying that 2-4 times every day over really long subway stairs...i have not have even ONE problem with locking or any other problem:

BUT: i know which screws you refer to, you mean the tiny screws that hold the handle bar onto the trolley bar itself! Yes, these screws are as tiny as before! What has changed is the inside part, where these „tiny“ screw grabs into. So yes and also no, this problem has been „half“ adressed, but we have to see if these screws doesnt get loose anymore (that was the problem before, then handle got loose and so on)...i have monitored them and didnt see any loosage - until now!

So i hadn’t have any problems, even on my daily „4 times stair commute“ but i agree, we will have to see over time....at the moment my forecast would be „weather is perfect“ :-)

Other than that the trolley/handle/sensor now works fantastic....

I haven't had any problems. The way that my 18L is used has not changed. Given how easily the last two trolleys on my 18L failed, any issues should have surfaced by now. I installed the latest iteration the minute they were released so it has now been in use for several months. Of course on my XL the good handle is original equipment, and again, no issues with either wheel both with latest handle installed. 

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