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Z10 MAX SPEED UNLOCK TO 56km/h TESTS REPORT

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45 minutes ago, Damarafaka said:

The purpose of the details is allow fellow testers to have all the possible information and data regarding the behavior of the wheel at these speed limits. Of course the logging would have given much more useful info as well as a video. I admit that your assessment is perfectly possible, that the wheel could have free spun after bouncing around after cut-off, but in my opinion it is more probable that the speed was reached before cut-off, it is even possible that the speed was reached even before and the cut-off occurred with a slightly lower speed but triggered by bumps on the road. Once again, the goal is to know what variables, speed, inclination, road condition, tire pressure, etc. are causing a cut-off in order to find a "safe zone" for extreme riding. I am no expert in electronics or programming, but I have done the same testing with my MSX and ride a safe zone with my weight around 60kmh. I have lots of youtube videos doing what I call high speed laps (as well as with the stock Z10). Of course there are risks during testing and with my Z10 with 7.6.1, I was in no way planning to reach 70kmh, being perfectly aware the fw clearly states 61 as top speed, I wanted to hit this speed taking advantage of my 68kg, it felt safe enough to reach this limit. I ride 60kmh pretty comfortably so it was perfectly possible that such a powerful and stable wheel as the Z at high speed, if you know how to ride it aggressively, could have reached the mentioned speed before cut-off no problem.

It is not possible to ride 70 km\h on Z10, because of physics of BLDC motor (it is speed of zero power of Z10 motor at 50% battery). Something around 60 at full battery, and it decrease during battery discharge (voltage drop).

See this topic, if you want more information about it

 

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5 hours ago, palachzzz said:

It is not possible to ride 70 km\h on Z10, because of physics of BLDC motor (it is speed of zero power of Z10 motor at 50% battery). Something around 60 at full battery, and it decrease during battery discharge (voltage drop).

See this topic, if you want more information about it

 

The theory does not always match reality. With this logic, correct me if I am wrong, the rider weight would have almost no relationship to reaching different top speeds, not like the 80% power warning of the gotways allowing huge variations in speed with a 30kg difference in rider weight. Don't get me wrong, I have no interest in convincing anyone of reaching one speed or another, I want the most information possible regarding the theoretical limits of a certain fw, of the wheel performance itself and the results of real testing, in my case a 68kg rider and the added possible lessons from a real cut-off with the scarce data from the wheellog app and my experience. When I recover I will make more tests. Thanks for the link.

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Idling on a fully charged battery is about 81.5km / h, fully charged - roughly 59 volts. The firmware has a hard limit for power reserve of 25%. Total we get, if the battery was 50% (roughly 52 volts) 81.5 * 59/52 * 0.75 = ~ 54 km / h
Ie, the engine of the Z10 half-discharged battery will be able to overclock the raider up to 54km/h.

In this case, idling will be equal to 81.5 / 59 * 52 = ~ 72km / h (the speed of promotion of the motor without a rider, let's say when the wheel is raised)

PS. No raise the wheel to check the idle. There were cases of combustion of the controller (it does not depend on, modified firmware or original, just it is better not to do this)

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59 minutes ago, Damarafaka said:

 The theory does not always match reality. With this logic, correct me if I am wrong,

"In science, a theory is a hypothesis that’s supported by evidence. When theories are proven, they become laws or principles."

Electronic motors, their limits and how they work is well understood and proven - everything based on physical laws and principles. There is no logic in doubting any of these principles.

"Here we use" just use some theories about the exact "values" of the limits, because we lack detail knowledge of the parameters of the motor, firmware, etc...

59 minutes ago, Damarafaka said:

the rider weight would have almost no relationship to reaching different top speeds,

Exactly!

Rider weight, while driving without strong acceleration or not riding up an incline has (almost) no influence on the "hard speed limit".

At this higher speeds the highest burden is the normaly the air drag.

59 minutes ago, Damarafaka said:

not like the 80% power warning of the gotways allowing huge variations in speed with a 30kg difference in rider weight.

I never heard or read of any "real details" about this "80% power" warning. How this is implemented in detail seems to be quite unknown.  Its just "some" warning that seems to be quite relevant and ignoring it raises chances of an overlean greatly.

59 minutes ago, Damarafaka said:

Don't get me wrong, I have no interest in convincing anyone of reaching one speed or another, I want the most information possible regarding the theoretical limits of a certain fw,

Beside current limiting at lower speeds fw implements no "real" hard limits - the tiltback can be "ignored" (on some wheels easier, on some almost not). The real limit is the torque limit which can be reached while "riding the tiltback" (if one is skilled/acrobatic" enough.

Yes, and the cutting off at "max lift cut-off speed", but that's not impirtand, since this speed cannot be reached while riding.

59 minutes ago, Damarafaka said:

of the wheel performance itself and the results of real testing, in my case a 68kg rider and the added possible lessons from a real cut-off with the scarce data from the wheellog app and my experience. When I recover I will make more tests. Thanks for the link.

Be (just at least a little bit) careful and maybe try to reread some more details of the max torque over speed limit of bldc's.

Theoretical knowledge is not always bad and ones body will be very thankfull once one reaches a certain age, if one did not treat him to bad while beeing young...

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On 3/8/2019 at 1:00 AM, Chriull said:

I never heard or read of any "real details" about this "80% power" warning. How this is implemented in detail seems to be quite unknown.  Its just "some" warning that seems to be quite relevant and ignoring it raises chances of an overlean greatly.

Gotway describes 80% power alarm in their documents. I guess, implementation is pretty simple - 80% PWM. Inmotion uses something like that for their "alarm", but the exact threshold is not known (about 70-80% PWM)

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Quick question (have not read though the pages), for a rider weighing say about 90kg how fast will this Z10 be able to go compared to MSX running this unlock and full battery?

To me I notice a huge difference with MSX from 85-86 to 95 or even close to say 100kg fully loaded with backpack and all, like after 85'ish it really start to be negatively affected performance wise imo but is the Z10 more or less susceptible to this phenomena when unlocked, or about the same? Hard to ask the question in correct English, what I mean but maybe someone know what I am fishing for?

Also acceleration wise, is it about the same too or different, braking distance? The difference in quality or at lest quality feel is appealing with the Z10 to me, looks nice too but not the most important to me. Seems you can get one for a decent price at least ,so much so that I am asking myself f to hold out and wait to see if Gotway keep pushing the aspects I like their wheels for or if to start looking elsewhere?

Understand they are very different wheels and ride differently, not what I m asking about here but rather from a performance aspect mostly, then again the MSX too performance wise behave very differently pumping the tire up a bit so must be even more noticeable with the Z10 I can imagine?

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@Electroman, speed unlock means speed unlock, not power unlock or something else. Nothing except speed. MSX is more powerful wheel, because it have more powerful battery.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/23/2019 at 12:01 AM, Electroman said:

...To me I notice a huge difference with MSX from 85-86 to 95 or even close to say 100kg fully loaded with backpack and all, like after 85'ish it really start to be negatively affected performance wise imo but is the Z10 more or less susceptible to this phenomena when unlocked, or about the same? Hard to ask the question in correct English, what I mean but maybe someone know what I am fishing for?

Also acceleration wise, is it about the same too or different, braking distance? 

...

Interesting question/statements to think about!

Force needed for acceleration is F=m*a, Power needed is P=m*a*v, energy needed to reach some speed or "break from it" is E=m*v²/2.

So i do not see an significant impact on acceleration (performance) from increasing the weight by ~10%!

I'd wonder if a difference of 10% in acceleration makes a real feelable difference? With the lower weight at 10% more speed acceleration would be decreased by 10% for the same power requirement, too...

One possible explanation regarding this could derive from looking at the wheel/rider mechanics. The wheel is driven by a mass (center of gravity) way above the axle. This additional ~10kg sit even above (in the rucksack).

So every "imbalance" requires unproportionally more torque and by this power and force from the wheel - so with "every additional kilogramm high above the axle" more and more skill is needed to not overburden the wheel while asking it for in average "normal" accelerations!

Wonder if i'm way off reality with this thought, or it goes in the right direction...

Edited by Chriull
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3 hours ago, palachzzz said:

@Electroman, speed unlock means speed unlock, not power unlock or something else. Nothing except speed. MSX is more powerful wheel, because it have more powerful battery.

Thanks, I should have been  more clear I suppose, what I mean is vs the MSX cause never ridden the Z10?

But yeah leaning more towards mushing in more battery cells in the MSX and parallel it as much as I can cause me speed cravings seems to know boundaries and just getting worse and worse, I am afraid I woudl be disappointing if going Z10 instead of "upgrading" the MSX I already have.

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hello, can anyone help me with the unlock speed code Z10 . 

 

Thanks 

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5 minutes ago, Bjorn vda said:

hello, can anyone help me with the unlock speed code Z10 . 

 

Thanks 

You have to mp @MRN76

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3 minutes ago, GyroRideRz said:

You have to mp @MRN76

I know, but can't reach him! i can't send to him!

:confused1:

Just now, Bjorn vda said:

I know, but can't reach him! i can't send to him!

:confused1:

Messenger ??? 

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1 minute ago, Bjorn vda said:

I know, but can't reach him! i can't send to him!

:confused1:

Messenger ??? 

I'll tell him that you're trying to contact him, he will probably mp you then you can talk with him ;)

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2 minutes ago, Bjorn vda said:

I know, but can't reach him! i can't send to him!

:confused1:

Messenger ??? 

@MRN76 will know you are looking for him the next time he checks in,  because there are 4 @MRN76 now, including this last two from me.

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2 minutes ago, Smoother said:

@MRN76 will know you are looking for him the next time he checks in,  because there are 4 @MRN76 now, including this last two from me.

Oke

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On 3/25/2019 at 4:57 PM, Chriull said:

Interesting question/statements to think about!

Force needed for acceleration is F=m*a, Power needed is P=m*a*v, energy needed to reach some speed or "break from it" is E=m*v²/2.

So i do not see an significant impact on acceleration (performance) from increasing the weight by ~10%!

I'd wonder if a difference of 10% in acceleration makes a real feelable difference? With the lower weight at 10% more speed acceleration would be decreased by 10% for the same power requirement, too...

One possible explanation regarding this could derive from looking at the wheel/rider mechanics. The wheel is driven by a mass (center of gravity) way above the axle. This additional ~10kg sit even above (in the rucksack).

So every "imbalance" requires unproportionally more torque and by this power and force from the wheel - so with "every additional kilogramm high above the axle" more and more skill is needed to not overburden the wheel while asking it for in average "normal" accelerations!

Wonder if i'm way off reality with this thought, or it goes in the right direction...

Sorry for late reply, thanks for reply appreciate it and interesting

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On 03/04/2019 at 12:47, MRN76 said:

Mon télégramme https://t.me/mrn762

Hi,
I sent you an email on your mailbox 9Mod site, I do not have permission to contact you through the forum and I do not telegram, it is for the FW Z10, I wait for your news . Thank you

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21 hours ago, Marco73 said:

Hi,
I sent you an email on your mailbox 9Mod site, I do not have permission to contact you through the forum and I do not telegram, it is for the FW Z10, I wait for your news . Thank you

Hey. I usually answer everyone. But not always immediately (during the day)

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almost 140,000 visits. 1,700 Likes. CFW Ninebot Z10 Test Report Vídeo is being a success in less than two months. 

CAEFDBD6-948D-4BB4-8D44-FEE411C4E78C.jpeg

 

Edited by RoberAce
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4 hours ago, RoberAce said:

almost 140,000 visits. 1,700 Likes. CFW Ninebot Z10 Test Report Vídeo is being a success in less than two months. 

 CAEFDBD6-948D-4BB4-8D44-FEE411C4E78C.jpeg

 

Thank you for the review!

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